Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > 3 Beat Front to Back Transition
Login/Join to ParticipateNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
**(Name Edited for Clarity)**
In looking for a seamless transition from weave to BTB weave Skunk stumbled upon something which we dissected and distilled into a move I'd never seen before.
I'll teach it to you, then you tell me what it is.
With right poi:
Do one reverse circle on your left side hip in front of you and immediately reach around behind you and do a circle on the left side behind you. These circles should be perpendicular to your shoulders like a weave.
In further detail: Circle in front of you on the far left side, then cross over by your right shoulder into a circle behind you on the far left side. You should be passing by your right side only on the up stroke and NOT stay for a full circle. To cross from back to front you’re crossing only by your right hip.
This isn’t hard with one poi but I’ll break it down just to be sure we’re all understanding it. If your right poi had lips it would be traveling in REVERSE and:
Kiss your left shoulder (with your wrist in front of your left hip)
Kiss your left knee (with your wrist in front of your left hip)
Kiss your right shoulder (with your wrist at your right hip)
Kiss your left knee (with your wrist in behind your left hip)
Kiss your left shoulder (with your wrist in behind your left hip)
Kiss your right knee (with your wrist at your right hip)
With left poi:
Do exactly the opposite in SPLIT time. Replace the word “right” with “left”.
You are now doing something that LOOKS like a rev to BTB rev weave but isn’t. Since one hand could stay on top the whole time. Technically it’s three beats but it’s a tricky count. It’s a full circle on the opposite side of the body in front, a half a beat on the same side, a full circle on the opposite side behind your body, and a half a beat on the same side. It’s really just a 2 beat chase with ½ beat to go from front to back and ½ beat to come back to front.
Of course it can be done forwards as well but we found it easier to do backwards at first.
The really nice thing about it is that you don’t have to “break” for a beat to go from front to BTB. Since it’s impossible to go from true 3 beat weave to BTB 3 beat weave without a break or turn, this seemed like the way to do it.
[ 20. June 2003, 00:20: Message edited by: NYC ]
**(Name Edited for Clarity)**
In looking for a seamless transition from weave to BTB weave Skunk stumbled upon something which we dissected and distilled into a move I'd never seen before.
I'll teach it to you, then you tell me what it is.
With right poi:
Do one reverse circle on your left side hip in front of you and immediately reach around behind you and do a circle on the left side behind you. These circles should be perpendicular to your shoulders like a weave.
In further detail: Circle in front of you on the far left side, then cross over by your right shoulder into a circle behind you on the far left side. You should be passing by your right side only on the up stroke and NOT stay for a full circle. To cross from back to front you’re crossing only by your right hip.
This isn’t hard with one poi but I’ll break it down just to be sure we’re all understanding it. If your right poi had lips it would be traveling in REVERSE and:
Kiss your left shoulder (with your wrist in front of your left hip)
Kiss your left knee (with your wrist in front of your left hip)
Kiss your right shoulder (with your wrist at your right hip)
Kiss your left knee (with your wrist in behind your left hip)
Kiss your left shoulder (with your wrist in behind your left hip)
Kiss your right knee (with your wrist at your right hip)
With left poi:
Do exactly the opposite in SPLIT time. Replace the word “right” with “left”.
You are now doing something that LOOKS like a rev to BTB rev weave but isn’t. Since one hand could stay on top the whole time. Technically it’s three beats but it’s a tricky count. It’s a full circle on the opposite side of the body in front, a half a beat on the same side, a full circle on the opposite side behind your body, and a half a beat on the same side. It’s really just a 2 beat chase with ½ beat to go from front to back and ½ beat to come back to front.
Of course it can be done forwards as well but we found it easier to do backwards at first.
The really nice thing about it is that you don’t have to “break” for a beat to go from front to BTB. Since it’s impossible to go from true 3 beat weave to BTB 3 beat weave without a break or turn, this seemed like the way to do it.
[ 20. June 2003, 00:20: Message edited by: NYC ]
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
I still don't geddit but i like the idea of kissy poi!
I still don't geddit but i like the idea of kissy poi!
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Hrmph...
I try again.
Do a 2 beat reverse weave in front. During the moment where you're not crossed switch to a 2 beat weave behind your back for just 2 beats, then come back to the front.
I could stop at any point and just be in a 2 beat weave (either in front or BTB). The trick is cutting out all the fluff and NEVER doing a full circle on the 'same' side of the body.
Also, since you're doing a 2 beat only, you have a half of a beat where you're not crossed that you can make the transition from in front to BTB.
Hrmph...
I try again.
Do a 2 beat reverse weave in front. During the moment where you're not crossed switch to a 2 beat weave behind your back for just 2 beats, then come back to the front.
I could stop at any point and just be in a 2 beat weave (either in front or BTB). The trick is cutting out all the fluff and NEVER doing a full circle on the 'same' side of the body.
Also, since you're doing a 2 beat only, you have a half of a beat where you're not crossed that you can make the transition from in front to BTB.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
sounds like a waistwrap weave taken btb to me...
sounds like a waistwrap weave taken btb to me...
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
sounds like a waist wrap to me.
Also if this isn't just a waist wrap can you please call it a spider? spelling it with a y is just crap.
sounds like a waist wrap to me.
Also if this isn't just a waist wrap can you please call it a spider? spelling it with a y is just crap.
member
84 posts
Location: NYC, New York, USA
84 posts
Location: NYC, New York, USA
Posted:
oh dear...
3 beat spyder? let us nip that one right in the bud! i'm sorry but that is just plain wrong. first of all, this is a 2 beat move, so you see, the first half of the name doesn't really work. and the spyder, as arashi i'm sure could tell ya being from austin, is what old skewl people already call the 3 beat weave. that is the last time we let you come up with the names...
anyway basically the easiest way to understand this move is as follows:
spin both chains backwards at your sides. their timing should be even. cross your arms in front of you for a beat, then come out and in the same beat cross your arms behind your back for a beat, repeat as necessary. now try it with split (180 deg) timing, and you should have what nyc is groping at. the effect is a pattern that looks like a weave going from in front of your body to behind your back and back smoothly.
when we have another day of sun here, we'll throw some visual aids up in the video thread. maybe sunday? otherwise looks like m@*&#!$%^in rain again.
oh dear...
3 beat spyder? let us nip that one right in the bud! i'm sorry but that is just plain wrong. first of all, this is a 2 beat move, so you see, the first half of the name doesn't really work. and the spyder, as arashi i'm sure could tell ya being from austin, is what old skewl people already call the 3 beat weave. that is the last time we let you come up with the names...
anyway basically the easiest way to understand this move is as follows:
spin both chains backwards at your sides. their timing should be even. cross your arms in front of you for a beat, then come out and in the same beat cross your arms behind your back for a beat, repeat as necessary. now try it with split (180 deg) timing, and you should have what nyc is groping at. the effect is a pattern that looks like a weave going from in front of your body to behind your back and back smoothly.
when we have another day of sun here, we'll throw some visual aids up in the video thread. maybe sunday? otherwise looks like m@*&#!$%^in rain again.
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
Hey im getting all this rain to (im in nova scotia just north of you) the god damn government went and stole our spring and replaced it with a rainy fall. Assholes.
Anyways what you are describing is something ive been working out in my head but never really tried yet because I have things to learn.
Hey im getting all this rain to (im in nova scotia just north of you) the god damn government went and stole our spring and replaced it with a rainy fall. Assholes.
Anyways what you are describing is something ive been working out in my head but never really tried yet because I have things to learn.
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Posted:
while were on the subject of extra beats. you can start out a btb weave in the configuration of a btb waistwrap, so that you get four beats on one side of the btb weave and three on the other side. thus making it a 3 1/2 beat weave
while were on the subject of extra beats. you can start out a btb weave in the configuration of a btb waistwrap, so that you get four beats on one side of the btb weave and three on the other side. thus making it a 3 1/2 beat weave
we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
BRONZE Member
addict
529 posts
Location: I wish I knew, United Kingdom
addict
529 posts
Location: I wish I knew, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'm going with arashi and Astar on this one and say it's a waistwrap in the whatever-the-hell-plane-it-is-if-it's-not-wall plane. There's probably a more succinct name for that - the plane you first learn the weave in.
J
I'm going with arashi and Astar on this one and say it's a waistwrap in the whatever-the-hell-plane-it-is-if-it's-not-wall plane. There's probably a more succinct name for that - the plane you first learn the weave in.
J
If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
by george i think he's got it!
that's a carry.
be careful with this 'half a beat' stuff though man - a carry only does half a circle on one side of your body but it still takes up a whole beat.
this sounds like (a variation on?) full waistwrap in the notwallplane to me.
you can do constant carries all the way round your body and slip into waistwrap combos and back out.
to get an idea of where to start, spin forwards in notwallpane (is there a better name for this?!) with right arm crossed btb to spin in left side and left arm crossed in front to spin on right side.
now as the right poi passes the floor, carry the right poi all the way up, past the right shoulder to cross in front of you, down past the left knee to spin one beat on the left side, arm crossed in front (that was a top carry).
after that beat carry back to where it started for a beat and repeat. note this time it will be a bottom carry - poi goes in a half circle but past the right foot instead of the shoulder.
do the same with your left, starting the transitions at the same time (so you have the circles and the carries synchronised).
skipping a carry will land you in a weave. skipping another will get you back out of it.
this can be done in or out of the wallplane.
i'm not saying i can do all these spiffy carry/2bt weave combo's mind. what i mean to say is "i've seen moohaahaa do it and i get it" - something i've been saying, move after move, for over a year now
[ 19. June 2003, 22:29: Message edited by: coleman ]
by george i think he's got it!
quote:turn 90deg to your left and do this.
Originally posted by NYC:
With right poi:
Do one reverse circle on your left side hip in front of you and immediately reach around behind you and do a circle on the left side behind you. These circles should be perpendicular to your shoulders like a weave.
that's a carry.
be careful with this 'half a beat' stuff though man - a carry only does half a circle on one side of your body but it still takes up a whole beat.
this sounds like (a variation on?) full waistwrap in the notwallplane to me.
you can do constant carries all the way round your body and slip into waistwrap combos and back out.
to get an idea of where to start, spin forwards in notwallpane (is there a better name for this?!) with right arm crossed btb to spin in left side and left arm crossed in front to spin on right side.
now as the right poi passes the floor, carry the right poi all the way up, past the right shoulder to cross in front of you, down past the left knee to spin one beat on the left side, arm crossed in front (that was a top carry).
after that beat carry back to where it started for a beat and repeat. note this time it will be a bottom carry - poi goes in a half circle but past the right foot instead of the shoulder.
do the same with your left, starting the transitions at the same time (so you have the circles and the carries synchronised).
skipping a carry will land you in a weave. skipping another will get you back out of it.
this can be done in or out of the wallplane.
i'm not saying i can do all these spiffy carry/2bt weave combo's mind. what i mean to say is "i've seen moohaahaa do it and i get it" - something i've been saying, move after move, for over a year now
[ 19. June 2003, 22:29: Message edited by: coleman ]
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
SILVER Member
old hand
1,032 posts
Location: Madrid, United Kingdom
old hand
1,032 posts
Location: Madrid, United Kingdom
Posted:
if the plan you're referring to is not wall plane then surely it's wheel plane?
just a thought
if the plan you're referring to is not wall plane then surely it's wheel plane?
just a thought
"I don't take drugs. I am drugs" - Salvador Dali 
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
i like that
however, i will now spend the rest my day trying to dispel the song 'chariots of fire' from my head after thinking of a vehicle with just two big, flaming, parallel wheels
see ya later
i like that
however, i will now spend the rest my day trying to dispel the song 'chariots of fire' from my head after thinking of a vehicle with just two big, flaming, parallel wheels
see ya later
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Ha. I knew the name would make you cringe.
I'm standing behind my 3 beat designation. I may be proven wrong but ya' gotta stand for something right?
If the right poi hits the bottom of a circle in three different places it's gotta be three beats right?
The three different places my poi hits the bottom are the front left, back left, and right side as I carry from back to front.
Skunk and I will make a vid and let y'all vote.
In other news, I can only do the move with heavy, long chains. I tried it with my short, quick ones and can't for the life of me, pull it off. I guess I'll have to start spinning longer.
Trying desprately not to turn into Skunk...
-NYC
Ha. I knew the name would make you cringe.
I'm standing behind my 3 beat designation. I may be proven wrong but ya' gotta stand for something right?
If the right poi hits the bottom of a circle in three different places it's gotta be three beats right?
The three different places my poi hits the bottom are the front left, back left, and right side as I carry from back to front.
Skunk and I will make a vid and let y'all vote.
In other news, I can only do the move with heavy, long chains. I tried it with my short, quick ones and can't for the life of me, pull it off. I guess I'll have to start spinning longer.
Trying desprately not to turn into Skunk...
-NYC
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
yea. nice one. nyc
bout 3 years ago when he used to spin, Tim used to call it a full body weave. really good to teach it to people as a precurser to learning btb weave.
I think of them as long carry variations.
If you play with long carries like this there are lots of lovely georgeous varioations to play with and find. based on doing two circles with carries between them.
simple quick variation in side planes, take what nyc described, and put the btb circle above your shoulder, so right hand does circle on left side carries out to the right, and then behind the head on the left, carries back out to the right on the way back.
3 beats (god i hate that term, you can do a circle in anything from about 1 to 8 beats)
and 2 circle and 2 half circle carries.
lots of variations in the wall plane and butterfly.
Carries are the shatz. old skool
yea. nice one. nyc
bout 3 years ago when he used to spin, Tim used to call it a full body weave. really good to teach it to people as a precurser to learning btb weave.
I think of them as long carry variations.
If you play with long carries like this there are lots of lovely georgeous varioations to play with and find. based on doing two circles with carries between them.
simple quick variation in side planes, take what nyc described, and put the btb circle above your shoulder, so right hand does circle on left side carries out to the right, and then behind the head on the left, carries back out to the right on the way back.
3 beats (god i hate that term, you can do a circle in anything from about 1 to 8 beats)
and 2 circle and 2 half circle carries.
lots of variations in the wall plane and butterfly.
Carries are the shatz. old skool
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
OK... Carry. Nice.
So let's turn this into a 'carry' brainstorm.
Hit me. What else? Where else? Go:
OK... Carry. Nice.
So let's turn this into a 'carry' brainstorm.
Hit me. What else? Where else? Go:
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Everywhere you can to everwhere else.
right that cleared that up.
hours saved
Everywhere you can to everwhere else.
right that cleared that up.
hours saved
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
okay, first comment for the carry brainstorm session (which in my head reads 'waistwrap variations') is something that twisted my head for *ages*.
you can see where the confusion will occur when you consider that in normal counting a bottom carry would be one beat and a top carry no beats
this has the consequence of making a waistwrap, three beats in one direction and four in the other
as far as i understand them, there are an even number of beats in waistwraps as they are based around 2bt crossfollow patterns.
quick solution - count a carry as a beat. i'll try and understand another day.
also good to remember is that (with reference to your quote there) to get a beat count for a move, you count the number of beats it takes a poi to get back to its start position. the top carry on the way back makes a total of four beats total.
and that's why i avoid counting at all costs
okay, first comment for the carry brainstorm session (which in my head reads 'waistwrap variations') is something that twisted my head for *ages*.
quote:i find it makes loads more sense if i just count a carry as a beat.
Originally posted by NYC:
If the right poi hits the bottom of a circle in three different places it's gotta be three beats right?
The three different places my poi hits the bottom are the front left, back left, and right side as I carry from back to front.
you can see where the confusion will occur when you consider that in normal counting a bottom carry would be one beat and a top carry no beats
this has the consequence of making a waistwrap, three beats in one direction and four in the other
as far as i understand them, there are an even number of beats in waistwraps as they are based around 2bt crossfollow patterns.
quick solution - count a carry as a beat. i'll try and understand another day.
also good to remember is that (with reference to your quote there) to get a beat count for a move, you count the number of beats it takes a poi to get back to its start position. the top carry on the way back makes a total of four beats total.
and that's why i avoid counting at all costs
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Ug... talking to the Jedi can be so annoying.
I guess the fundamental point of a carry is to end up 360 degrees on the other side of the body in a half of a circle. I just don't do many moves on the 'other' side of my body yet and was looking for some that might work.
In the shoulder plane, we're talking about a waist wrap where you're going from infront on the left to infront on the right with a carry behind and it's btb opposite right?
And in the weave plane we're from infront on the left to behind in the left with a carry on the right. (and it's mirror as well)...
What else?
Also, I just realized that you can do what I described above at 90 degrees but I don't think I'm flexible yet to go behind my back far enough to end up in front of my hip... Hrmm...
Ug... talking to the Jedi can be so annoying.
I guess the fundamental point of a carry is to end up 360 degrees on the other side of the body in a half of a circle. I just don't do many moves on the 'other' side of my body yet and was looking for some that might work.
In the shoulder plane, we're talking about a waist wrap where you're going from infront on the left to infront on the right with a carry behind and it's btb opposite right?
And in the weave plane we're from infront on the left to behind in the left with a carry on the right. (and it's mirror as well)...
What else?
Also, I just realized that you can do what I described above at 90 degrees but I don't think I'm flexible yet to go behind my back far enough to end up in front of my hip... Hrmm...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Hrmm.... Actually Coleman a carry would be a half of a beat. It's literally half of a circle.
The move I'm describing on here has a loop, a carry from front to back, a loop, and a carry from back to front. All that has to add up to three beats because the poi only make three circles.
If you count a carry as a beat then to count the carry 'back' as a beat you'll have one beat too many.
A carry can either be the bottom half of a circle or the top. But you need both somewhere in the figure.
Unless you want to count just the bottom carry as a beat and the top as free, that will work too...
And before the antibeat posse jumps my a$$, I do feel it's important for my learning to undestand where each beat is so BACK DA F#K OFF NIGGA$$! (Sorry... listening to that Green Lantern Remix of 50 cent while posting... how good is that?!)
Hrmm.... Actually Coleman a carry would be a half of a beat. It's literally half of a circle.
The move I'm describing on here has a loop, a carry from front to back, a loop, and a carry from back to front. All that has to add up to three beats because the poi only make three circles.
If you count a carry as a beat then to count the carry 'back' as a beat you'll have one beat too many.
A carry can either be the bottom half of a circle or the top. But you need both somewhere in the figure.
Unless you want to count just the bottom carry as a beat and the top as free, that will work too...
And before the antibeat posse jumps my a$$, I do feel it's important for my learning to undestand where each beat is so BACK DA F#K OFF NIGGA$$! (Sorry... listening to that Green Lantern Remix of 50 cent while posting... how good is that?!)
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
when is your flight nyc? we need to talk about this in person i think
you don't need both carries in all moves with a carry.
a full waistwrap uses both top and bottom carries.
a regular in-front or btb waistwrap has one carry per poi and they are both the same carry.
in any normal waistwrap, the carry transitions take the same time as the full circles do.
when i said above "skipping a carry will land you in a weave" the 'skip a carry' bit means 'leave the poi where it is and spin a circle instead'.
if all the timing is kept the same, the other poi will carry over in the time taken to spin that one circle and slip nicely into a split-time weave.
is that all making sense? (if not, please remember that trying to put this into words is not very easy on the brain either - trust me!)
okay, this next bit may just turn everything to shit so stop reading now if you already disagree.
the way i sort it in my head, takes advantage of the fact that in some situations (it may be all situations but i only use this for waistwraps) you can redefine the counting system and use 'circles' and 'plane crosses' to get a beat count for the move.
you're not gonna like this and i get the feeling i'm going to get shouted at by a lot of people very soon...
number of beats = (number of circles spun by one hand) x (number of planes crossed on the transition but only if any planes are crossed)
note on that second term on the rhs of the equation - ie. if no planes are crossed, we just count the number of full circles spun.
3bt weave, left hand as an example:
a. circle on left, transition to right; 1x1=1
b. circle on right (no transitions); 1
c. circle on right, transition to left; 1x1=1
Total Beats in Move = 1+1+1 = 3
its a bit longwinded for that as there are only full circles but...
front waistwrap as an example:
[either hand: starting in fwd on right hand side (rhs)]
a. circle behind on rhs, transition to front; 1x1=1
b. circle in front, transition to behind on lhs; 1x1=1
c. circle behind on lhs (no transitions); 1
d. carry (1/2 a circle) transition directly to behind on rhs; 1/2x2=1
Total Beats in Move = 1+1+1+1 = 4
note you only count plane crosses once. here i have counted them according to the part (a circle or a carry) of the move being spun when the transition is made.
[ 20. June 2003, 23:25: Message edited by: coleman ]
when is your flight nyc? we need to talk about this in person i think
you don't need both carries in all moves with a carry.
a full waistwrap uses both top and bottom carries.
a regular in-front or btb waistwrap has one carry per poi and they are both the same carry.
in any normal waistwrap, the carry transitions take the same time as the full circles do.
when i said above "skipping a carry will land you in a weave" the 'skip a carry' bit means 'leave the poi where it is and spin a circle instead'.
if all the timing is kept the same, the other poi will carry over in the time taken to spin that one circle and slip nicely into a split-time weave.
is that all making sense? (if not, please remember that trying to put this into words is not very easy on the brain either - trust me!)
okay, this next bit may just turn everything to shit so stop reading now if you already disagree.
the way i sort it in my head, takes advantage of the fact that in some situations (it may be all situations but i only use this for waistwraps) you can redefine the counting system and use 'circles' and 'plane crosses' to get a beat count for the move.
you're not gonna like this and i get the feeling i'm going to get shouted at by a lot of people very soon...
number of beats = (number of circles spun by one hand) x (number of planes crossed on the transition but only if any planes are crossed)
note on that second term on the rhs of the equation - ie. if no planes are crossed, we just count the number of full circles spun.
3bt weave, left hand as an example:
a. circle on left, transition to right; 1x1=1
b. circle on right (no transitions); 1
c. circle on right, transition to left; 1x1=1
Total Beats in Move = 1+1+1 = 3
its a bit longwinded for that as there are only full circles but...
front waistwrap as an example:
[either hand: starting in fwd on right hand side (rhs)]
a. circle behind on rhs, transition to front; 1x1=1
b. circle in front, transition to behind on lhs; 1x1=1
c. circle behind on lhs (no transitions); 1
d. carry (1/2 a circle) transition directly to behind on rhs; 1/2x2=1
Total Beats in Move = 1+1+1+1 = 4
note you only count plane crosses once. here i have counted them according to the part (a circle or a carry) of the move being spun when the transition is made.
[ 20. June 2003, 23:25: Message edited by: coleman ]
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
C,
In you're equation you're using a carry as half a beat. Which is exactly what I was saying the whole time.
I think we're in complete agreement. I still don't waistwrap but Cass is coming in July so I've got hope.
Thanks all for continually being patient and explaing stuff.
C,
In you're equation you're using a carry as half a beat. Which is exactly what I was saying the whole time.
I think we're in complete agreement. I still don't waistwrap but Cass is coming in July so I've got hope.
Thanks all for continually being patient and explaing stuff.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
half circle dude - its a whole beat.
using the reasoning above its half a circle but since it crosses two planes, it works out to a full beat.
counting sucks anyway - if you can spin the move then what does it matter eh?
i say four beats which works for my head, you say three which works for yours - but either way, its the same move
you say tomatoes, i say toma(r)toes,
you say potatoes, i say some confusing crap about a moot point
half circle dude - its a whole beat.
using the reasoning above its half a circle but since it crosses two planes, it works out to a full beat.
counting sucks anyway - if you can spin the move then what does it matter eh?
i say four beats which works for my head, you say three which works for yours - but either way, its the same move
you say tomatoes, i say toma(r)toes,
you say potatoes, i say some confusing crap about a moot point
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
SILVER Member
old hand
1,032 posts
Location: Madrid, United Kingdom
old hand
1,032 posts
Location: Madrid, United Kingdom
Posted:
haven't you guys got anything better to do?
the sun is shining - go outside and play!
haven't you guys got anything better to do?
the sun is shining - go outside and play!
"I don't take drugs. I am drugs" - Salvador Dali
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
some us have jobs honey...?
this is the closest i can get to playing with poi in the sun and still not get sacked
some us have jobs honey...?
this is the closest i can get to playing with poi in the sun and still not get sacked
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
\smug mode
\smug mode
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
NO! THE SUN IS NOT SHINING GODD#MNIT!!!
WE"VE HAD 24 F#CKIN DAYS OF RAIN IN MAY AND JUST BROKE THE 100 YEAR OLD RAINFALL RECORD IN JUNE!!!
WE HAVEN'T HAD A DAY OF WARM SUN ON A WEEKEND ALL YEAR!
So all I've got is sitting here in front of my computer and talking theoretical poi.
And the weather for New York this weekend? 'Rain Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Expect flooding.'
So yes. The best thing I've got to do right now is debate theoretical beats with coleman so that if by chance the floodwaters ebb I could, one day, spin some damn fire.
Skunk and I will try to vid the move we're talking about because, YES, I do find it useful and interesting to talk about beats.
Trying to stay dry...
NO! THE SUN IS NOT SHINING GODD#MNIT!!!
WE"VE HAD 24 F#CKIN DAYS OF RAIN IN MAY AND JUST BROKE THE 100 YEAR OLD RAINFALL RECORD IN JUNE!!!
WE HAVEN'T HAD A DAY OF WARM SUN ON A WEEKEND ALL YEAR!
So all I've got is sitting here in front of my computer and talking theoretical poi.
And the weather for New York this weekend? 'Rain Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Expect flooding.'
So yes. The best thing I've got to do right now is debate theoretical beats with coleman so that if by chance the floodwaters ebb I could, one day, spin some damn fire.
Skunk and I will try to vid the move we're talking about because, YES, I do find it useful and interesting to talk about beats.
Trying to stay dry...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
<======= Seasonal Affective Disorder with Psychosomatic Bitchyness.
<======= Seasonal Affective Disorder with Psychosomatic Bitchyness.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
transition from weave to BTB weave
I think I just take my right hand poi behind my left hip; still in three-beat weave mode. I stay in side-plane, which is the name I use for notwallpane.
Is side-plane a better name? I don’t know.
As Coleman suggested in another thread. If we twist the trunk or turn right, when doing a normal waist-wrap in wall-plane, we go into side-plane and can do a three beat weave to the side (forwards or backwards).
I really never figured that counting the three-beat weave stuff. Coleman’s idea seems good: A half circle crossing two planes works out to a full beat, and a full circle to boot.
transition from weave to BTB weave
I think I just take my right hand poi behind my left hip; still in three-beat weave mode. I stay in side-plane, which is the name I use for notwallpane.
Is side-plane a better name? I don’t know.
As Coleman suggested in another thread. If we twist the trunk or turn right, when doing a normal waist-wrap in wall-plane, we go into side-plane and can do a three beat weave to the side (forwards or backwards).
I really never figured that counting the three-beat weave stuff. Coleman’s idea seems good: A half circle crossing two planes works out to a full beat, and a full circle to boot.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
erm...
okay this is gonna suck
i can't count.
i've said it before and hopefully will never have to again.
please ignore my crazy counting system that i have since shunned.
moohaahaa counted for me while i spun a waistwrap and as we'd talked about before, a carry is just a stretched out circle - whichever one it is (top or bottom), the total number of circles has to equal four or it just doesn't make sense.
it fell into place when i was aksed "okay then, so how do you only spin half a circle without stopping?".
i think i said something like "oh yeah. fukc" and hung my head.
so a carry itself is not counted as a beat.
a top carry has beats either side of it, bottom carry has a beat in the middle but it all works out.
all the (front and btb) waistwraps work out to four beats using the normal counting method of a beat every time the poi passes the ground.
sorry nyc...
[ 23. June 2003, 22:57: Message edited by: coleman ]
erm...
okay this is gonna suck
i can't count.
i've said it before and hopefully will never have to again.
please ignore my crazy counting system that i have since shunned.
moohaahaa counted for me while i spun a waistwrap and as we'd talked about before, a carry is just a stretched out circle - whichever one it is (top or bottom), the total number of circles has to equal four or it just doesn't make sense.
it fell into place when i was aksed "okay then, so how do you only spin half a circle without stopping?".
i think i said something like "oh yeah. fukc" and hung my head.
so a carry itself is not counted as a beat.
a top carry has beats either side of it, bottom carry has a beat in the middle but it all works out.
all the (front and btb) waistwraps work out to four beats using the normal counting method of a beat every time the poi passes the ground.
sorry nyc...
[ 23. June 2003, 22:57: Message edited by: coleman ]
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I'm right? I'm right? I'm never right!
I KNEW I was right... I CAN count!
I still disagree with your carry beats. It more matters weather you count the beats on the top or bottom (see previous threads)... If you count like most of us on the bottom then a bottom carry would be a beat and the top would not. Or if you're freaky like PK then it's the other way around.
But if you count a carry as half a beat or half of your carrys as one beat then it still turns out the same.
I still maintain that the move above is 3 beats. No matter how you count it.
I'm right? I'm right? I'm never right!
I KNEW I was right... I CAN count!
I still disagree with your carry beats. It more matters weather you count the beats on the top or bottom (see previous threads)... If you count like most of us on the bottom then a bottom carry would be a beat and the top would not. Or if you're freaky like PK then it's the other way around.
But if you count a carry as half a beat or half of your carrys as one beat then it still turns out the same.
I still maintain that the move above is 3 beats. No matter how you count it.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
the type of carry does not affect beat counts (and its not just me saying this ).
i don't think i'm the right person to explain but the deal is, if you count all the way through a move with a top carry and then all the way through the same move but with a bottom carry instead, the beats are the same whether you count on the top or the bottom.
as stone said, a carry works out to a full circle across two planes (eg. top carry goes from behind right foot, over the top of a circle in front, to behind left foot - 1 whole circle).
the number of circles are the same whichever carry you use, its just how you stretch those circles out round your body that gives you the carries.
maybe i should just shut up though... i have a habit of over complicating things
the type of carry does not affect beat counts (and its not just me saying this ).
i don't think i'm the right person to explain but the deal is, if you count all the way through a move with a top carry and then all the way through the same move but with a bottom carry instead, the beats are the same whether you count on the top or the bottom.
as stone said, a carry works out to a full circle across two planes (eg. top carry goes from behind right foot, over the top of a circle in front, to behind left foot - 1 whole circle).
the number of circles are the same whichever carry you use, its just how you stretch those circles out round your body that gives you the carries.
maybe i should just shut up though... i have a habit of over complicating things
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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