The Poi "I just learned a new advanced move / combo" thread

The point isolation petals you're referring to are called cycloids and refer not only antispin, but to prospin as well.

Either way, the ratio isn't 1:n, the number of rotations in a 3 petal antispin is 2:1. A cateye is 1:1 but is visually an ellipse.

Are you trying to imply that these loops you speak of aren't petals? Petals are the precise thing that non-spinners can see.

I really will need a diagram of your '0 beat antispin' if I'm to see what you're talking about, because it seems like you're trying to divide by zero.

As a side point, if you do a cateye as a cycloid you'll end up with a line iso.

Um, your correction of my ratio is apparently ignoring which integer was intended to be be which. As I was arranging the numbers (since I said "hand circle to poi circle") 1:2 is a three petal antispin. 1:3 is four petal, 1:4 is five petal, etc. "n" was a variable taking natural numbers as values and is the spot where poi revolutions go. If my informal use of "ratio" is confusing, then simply look at it as an ordered pair whose members can sometimes, but not always, be put into a ratio; and which nonetheless says something intelligible about what the poi are doing (namely, in this case, that the hand is making one circle, and the poi isn't making any). But even if you can't always make a ratio out of poi cycles to arm cycles, you can always make a ratio out of hand cycles to poi cycles relative to hand radius.

I am trying to state that loopiness is not a necessary condition for petals (though they are sufficient), and especially that visible loops are not a necessary condition. Petals and loops are not co-extensive. What makes for loops appearing under certain conditions is that there's a specific geometric property being expressed, and this mathematical property can be tracked and described whether or not loops are visible or present. That is, my preference is to define petals more mathematically since it's more useful when you're looking at transitions and such.

As for non-spinners seeing them, I have on more than one occasion needed to explain the pattern and where the petals go before people are able to see them, especially with sock poi or other unilluminated poi.

If the hand is making a circle and the poi are not, then how can it be antispin? If theres nothing to compare the spin against how can you say its against it?

I take it you're talking about cycloids and pendulums then?

A cycloid is essentially a flower in which the radius of the unit circle is the length of the poi head, or you can do it by a little bit of a flick into a point iso.

On ratios, I am quite well aware of how they're used, I'm merely pointing out that it won't be either antispin or prospin, its just the hand moving around.

Interesting. I feel more along the lines of MNS, if only because I have not grokked your idea yet.

MNS: Wasn't implying that you didn't understand ratios; simply being explicit that I was abusing the notation slightly and trying to make clear the way in which I was doing so. No offense intended.

As for how you can call it antispin when the poi isn't spinning: antispin can be defined both in terms of the poi's absolute rotation or in terms of it's rotation relative to hand radius. The one petal antispin in question is, underwhelmingly, precisely a pendulum with the hand travelling in a circle. The poi lacks absolute rotation, but it does have hand-radial rotation, and it happens to be antispin. I prefer the hand-radial criterion for two reasons: it notationally avoids the awkward disparity between beat counts and petals, and it allows me to say things like "zero beat, one petal antispin" without the phrase having an empty extension.

But a pendulum goes back and forth? Surely that would make it both spin and anti-spin?

Its like a horizontal cateye with pendulum stalls. The poi just heads in the opposite direction to the hand.

I don't get it in the slightest bit...

Not at all. Just means its hand-radial angular velocity isn't constant, but you can do it so that it never changes from negative to positive, I believe. At worst it "stalls" at points, but the net movement per hand cycle is antispin.

While the poi head moves to the right, the hand is on the left hand side of the unit circle rotation. When the poi head is on the left, the hand is on the right hand side of the unit circle rotation.


Its not antispin per se, but its something..

Ah.... So in effect, an anti-spun pendulum?

I think I get it now....

Something like this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUmidbeumy0

0:26 - 0:40

or

1:22 - 1:31



Also someone shoud write down all the crazy moves from Axel's video
into a single thread..maybe I'll do.

Nah, not even close... His hands are still moving with the poi, the only difference is that he's putting a bit of isolation into it, or a bit of an extended cateye to create a line isolation.

The movement sister eleven is talking about is interesting to note, but I can't see it being used cleanly and effectively.

I'm not even convinced I'm doing it right, its a funny one.

I'm always sure to be proven wrong, though.

Blegh. Timing on this sucker is difficult....

Bleh, trying to learn wrist rolls in glowsticking. Making slow progress, but can't wait for the final product

my most recent things are;
3D 90* AS plane changes
BTB T's n C's
Double throw 360's (tho they're not nailed yet
No Etra Beat Throws with a whole host of variants

ummmm? and some other stuff =]

i got a watermill to orbital turn out to meltdown

Antispin meltdown. Something clicked in my brain today and I said to myself "you know, you're making this more complicated than it really is..." And I was right. Now I have an even cooler transition out of reel pirouettes into antispin flowers...

EDIT: Also hard direction UTA crossers and several other moves that clicked when I realized that UTA crossers were just part of a five beat archer's weave. Also a weird stall CAP thing and a float thingy that one of my spin jam homies came up with. And a poi enigma isolation, though the cord kind of ruins the effect; it's just the only contact move I know so far

just learned a meltdown turn into orbital then turn out back to meltdown

Throwing one poi from a 1 handed butterfly and catching hit with my left hand. I love throwing it like 30ft in the air!

My unit circle hybrids are really coming together! As long as they don't involve horizontal cat-eyes...

Edit: Including a cat eye vs. extension thread the needle. (Yes, I edit a lot. Figure it's better than posting three times in succession.)

I DID IT I DID IT I DID IT!!!!! My antispin flower turns are finally clean! I can't wait to see me do it on video. Actually I thik I'll take my camera outside and look

Shiny....

Re-learned opposite direction anti-spin reel turning.

Stalling from a split-same antispin flower into the same flower at a 90 degree angle. Turns out it's much easier stalling into the center of the flower instead of out at the top & bottom petals.

Forward and reverse three beat throwing weaves with no hand swaps and no-extra-beat throws. Also adapted a trivial rope dart trick: wrap the poi up around three fingers a couple of times and when I'm almost out of cord, point my hand in the direction of the poi's swing. Works better than most of the other shots I know.

Hmmm.... Not quite solid yet, but playing with a btb weave to one side (half a btb waistwrap), into meltdown, back into btb weave to one side (btb waist wrap) the other side, into crosser, into antispin flower. Feels sort of cool.

Nothing revolutionary, but thought I might as well put some of it out there.

Re-learned:

-hands opposite + Poi anti-spin
-hands parallel + Poi anti-spin
-hands opposite + Poi alternate

And wall plane truning, 360 turning with low and high turn reels.

Came up with this playing with carry overs. Sry for bad quality but I wanted to post a vid cuz I dont quite know how I would go about explaining it. Tell me what you think, its more or less the first actually technical trick I have come up with that looks cool.

Nice one! Looks like a quick transition from a stall carryover into a spin vs. antispin or iso vs. cat eye hybrid. I need to try that out...