Dog breeding

So I'm sitting here looking at my little Paco (a Poodle/Shiba-Inu mix that we got out of a shelter) and Zoe (a Basenji/street-dog mix from Taiwan) and pondering why the American and British Kennel Clubs exist and why people who claim to love dogs so much would spend so much time, money, and energy making more dogs to add to the overpopulation problem. Especially when some breeds of dogs are so genetically grotuesque that none of them live long and healthy lives (like Pugs with their noses and German Shepherds with their hips).

Our little guy was apparently rescued by the foster group two weeks shy of when he was going to be put down in the shelter. And, while he's lacking in some socialization and we're working on some behavior issues, he's wonderful.

I'm sorry to offend if anyone here breeds dogs, but why create something that is already overabundant?

Same reason people breed deformed goldfish that can barely swim, with eyes that point straight upwards so they can barely see, and have a fraction of their potential lifespan.

Some people just see animals as 'things' that can be bred to fit a supposed aesthetic ideal regardless of what effect this has on the animal's actual health. Some people are jerks.

mm, all the inbreeding is apparently ruining the temperaments of Golden Retrivers

Though we have bred our own litter of Chesapeake Bay Retrivers. It wasn't for the money, I think we came out at a loss in fact. But we've still got one of the puppies now (though as it's a good 3/4 years one he's now huge).

While it was mainly my parents who were involved in the breeding side, I know they were extraordinarily careful. But I helped out a huge amount with the puppies, and that was a joy. If we could have kept them we would, in fact we even fostered and re-homed one of our puppies after it's owner's living situation changed and they couldn't keep it.

The problem are the people who breed for profit, or for another ribbon from a dog show to put on the walls. And guess who make up roughly half of the Kennel Club/whatever

Beauty is in the organ of the beholder. When there is a market, it will try to be filled. I dont get beauty at the price of deformity. Extreme thiness in people, binding of feet, wearing of uncomfortable high heels, ties and dog breeds with selection for traits that are in my head a deformity.
I like mutts by choice,you and Oly have met (and licked each other) in my experience they are more robust which suits my lifestyle and I also like dogs to be part of the pack that is our family.
But I can see the attraction of a known breed, with known parentage and nature.

I personally love Mastiffs, I've had two, my second one is definitely going soon. Her eye is getting enormous, and apparently she was having trouble balancing last night. Which means the tumor got to her brain, or she was just really tired after her long walk. Part of me wants to put her down in fear that her eye will pop out of her head which is very possible, it happened to someone my mom works with just a little while ago. But she is still happy, which I think would make it kind of cruel to kill an animal that is still happy. She was 200lbs when she was healthy, then she got sick and lost 60lbs and gained I think 20 back. And she is currently 12.5 years old. She is ancient! I was told that dogs live a lot longer if you keep them happy, which makes me feel very good knowing how happy she's been.

As for breeding, the big dogs tend to have really bad hip problems. And a lot also have heart problems. And my girlfriend got a dog from a breeder and it is literally retarded because of all the inbreeding they do.

i want to make a new breed of dog with bull mastiffs great danes boxers and pit bulls they would be enormous guard dogs

If you want enormous, try Irish, I can't remember, Irish something-hound.

I don't think it's so simple and straightforward as that. Dog breeding isn't always about how pretty the dog looks for shows. There is also a large element of behaviour and temperament and things like that.

Inbreeding and the like causes issues, but that's an example of when breeding is done incorrectly and irresponsibly. I think it's sad when people who do things responsibly get taken down with those who do the wrong thing.

SoD - Irish Wolfhound.

Thank you, that was bothering me, when I went to Germany I saw a dog that was as tall as the guy walking it. I was like HOLY WTF IS THAT! And when I got back I told my mom half expecting her to think I'm crazy and she's like, "Yeah, it was probably an Irish Wolfhound, they only live about 4 years or so, but they're huge." And oh my lord that thing was at least 5'6". All I could think was "Holy ! Germany already has some huge wasps (which I found out later were just beetles) and ginormous mosquitoes, but dogs like THAT! WTF!" And yeah I saw some crazy things, or at least cray to me.

well all of the mentioned dogs are fairly well tempered except for some breeds of pit bull but wouldnt use those breeds i have took alot o thought into it the mastiffs are fairly intlligent as well as great danes (not so much though) and boxers are very playfull as well as pit bulls and all of said dogs are very loyal if handled correctly

Yeah, Daisy will listen to us no matter what. We've never had to use a leash, if there's another dog or a squirrel, we just say no and she won't. She can tell when we'r efeeling bad and she comes to comfort us. Other than her being very calm and not very playful, I couldn't possibly imagine a better dog and I don't feel like typing more descriptions why as I could go on and on.

I've been preparing for her death for around half a year now, and it's still hard to imagine life without her.

and rouge dragon if i did make that breed of dog it would definately not be pretty it would be very very ugly in fact but lik i said in an earlier post i have put a lot of thought into it

I want to mix Irish Wolfhound, Mastiff, German Shepherd, Bernese Mountain Dog, and let's throw in a Chihuahua for kicks n' giggles

A chihuahua to kick?

Yeah, after all, it's not a dog if you can dropkick it over a fence

Is it a dog if you can string it up and spin it in circles?

it is not classified as a dog if:

1. it bounces when it barks.
2. you can drop kick it over a fence.
3. its smaller than your poo.

#3 is totally the best criterium.

Is there really an overpopulation problem with animals bred to breed standards? You don't see many pedigree, registered animals in shelters, it's mongrels that breed indisriminantly and the people who don't neuter them that are the cause of that.

Personally I show border collies for agility, I buy from particular breeders who have a track record in temperament and conformation, when you buy at 8 weeks so you can train them yourself it's very rare you'll pick a good working dog from a shelter or a litter from unknown parentage; though I have had dogs from rescue organisations in the past they weren't much cop at jumping but made good companions. My dogs are also free from storage disease and hip displasia by parentage, non-pedigree dogs you'd never know without having to DNA screen them ($$$$)

I think that future dogs that I get will be mixes or just plain muts to avoid a lot of these health problems that come about from all this breeding for certain qualities. I think they should make a breed bred for health personally.

Just remember...dogs are easier to train than children(but not as much fun to breed):p. So wrap up and head to your local rspca shelter and pick up a mut

dogs bred for health are easy muts lol

Only yesterday I had to go to Animal Rescue International for our pup and read some of the flyers on the wall... one reflected quite well what I think of (dog) breeding. Can't quote it word by word but it went something along the lines of:

(Dog) breeders exploit animals for their personal profit whilst there are so many stricken creatures out there, desperately looking for a place - therefore (dog) breeders are not welcomed here.

If you are looking for a dog or cat or any kind of pet - please opt for a non-pedigree animal. Not only their genetic "material" is more stable, not only their emotional state is more stable, but also you will help a creature that would otherwise find it harder to find a home.

Don't promote breeding and don't create demand.

my

There's a difference between dog breeders and puppy farms. The ones I deal with are people who breed litters when they're after a new dog for themselves and sell the others, they don't actually make a profit when you take into consideration all the vaccination, microchipping and so on. they're generally known as "hobby breeders". Reputable people will screen for genetic conditions, the national body for specific breeds will often publish lineages of affected animals so you can check the peigree of yours against known carrier lines too.

Puppies sold in pet shops are likely the result of uncontrolled breeding, as are most of the animals in shelters.

Get your animal from wherever but GET IT NEUTERED.

breeding often has two angles
1) looks -which I don't particularily like but can admit to liking a black dog with perky ears over a blonde with droopy ears
2) temperment -which I can understand

It seems to me that breeders can be good or bad, I think puppymills are probably more likely the cause of shelter overpopulation and the fact that some people just abandon their animals.

All that being said, i go with the mutts. Have found better temperments with them, less likely to get adopted next to a purebred, less health problems.

Gus has been my best friend for five years-he's probably eleven- and now I'm soon going to let him go to the proverbial farm where maybe he can actually catch those damn squirrels. When the time comes, I'll probably get another mutt who's about to be put down for no reason other than no room in the inn.

All of this talk about breeding and my dog is purebread Old English Mastiff, was 200lbs when she was healthy, and she is now 12.5 and 165lbs. How she is still alive is beyond me, she has had moments where we thought it was gonna be time to put her down, then she gets back up. No idea, at some point she must have made a deal with the devil

My mutt lived to be 15.

It's a two-sided thing.

Respectful home breeders, who have maybe two litters a year and who are working with rare dog breeds, can probably be respected. When you have a dog breed with a low population, such as most giant breeds, such a situation is pretty much the only thing that props the breed up. My family has purebred mastiffs. That being said, we plan on going through a breed-specific rescue in the future.

I have no problem with paced, respectful breeding. I have problems with puppy mills. That's just screwed up.

Really the larger problem is owners who don't spay or neuter for whatever reason. Yeah puppy mills make the situation worse, but you MUST spay or neuter your pet or you are making a bad situation so much worse.

Oh, by the way: Don't give the Amish any money. The Amish's religious beliefs let them puppy mill and it's MUCH harder to bust them for it. Not only that, they tend to just shoot the entire "production line" of dogs if they think they're about to get in trouble. There are rescues running just trying to recover dogs from the Amish.

FWIW, of our two elderly Mastiffs, one was a rescue, my cat is a retired barn cat, and my guinea pigs came from a small animal rescue. And our corgi was dumped on the street.

How can someone's religious beliefs be what's behind puppy mills? Or do you mean that it's because of the religion that they're not scrutinised?

Yay for mastiffs!! I'd absolutely love one!

Rouge Dragon: I guess the Amish view animals as property and thus have no problem breeding dogs into the ground and shooting them if they don't want them anymore. As said, in a few states it's a fairly sizable problem, if you google around you'll find stories about it. Terrible stuff.

As for mastiffs, they're not easy to find but all the breeders I've meet have seemed pretty decent. They're amazingly easy dogs to handle, too. If you get one and you do go to a breeder, make sure you see the parents and the bloodline. They can have hip problems and stuff.

That is generally the best way to be honest, you get to a point where you have to discount owning lots of dogs on the basis of the breed predilictions. Unfortunately the Kennel Club have very little influence over breed standards, they have tried to improve some traits by introducing the Hip and Elbow Scoring, but they only cover some of the problems. The worst affected dogs are the bulldog as the breed standards directly impact upon the health of the animal, such as bracycphalic disease, valgal deformation etc.

I have mixed feelings about dog breeding. I tend to dislike it in general, They propagate a lot of genetic diseases for the sake of breed conformation. Their isn't very much effort to improve the condition of the breed on the part of most breeders. For example german shepards are in a serious need of recueing. To hell with breed conformity, mix the breed with similar breeds untill the hip issue is rectified. But breeders continue to carry on the bad genes in the name of the AKK (what I call the american kennel club)

Most dog owners don't have a need for pure breds anyways since they are only seeking companion dogs. Theirs no need for special temperments, phqisques and behaviours that are required for working dogs.

Their is definatly a need for breeders for the purpose of working dogs, if your running a sheep farm your not going to do trial and error adopting dogs from a shelter untill you find one with good herding instincts.

When I get a second dog I have a list of various breeds I would like in it's mix, but I wont go to a dog breeder and buy one, ill just take my time searching shelters untill I find one that has a mix of breeds im looking for, because I will probably end up with a superior dog anyways and I know that dog won't end up underneath the needle.

The best dogs ive ever seen were mix breeds.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Most dog owners have a need for temperament - or at least SHOULD! I was four when my family bought our first dog and it was essential that the dog have the sort of temperament that would be acceptable with a child in the house. And even without a child living in the house, you need to take into account children visiting the house, people who you encounter while taking the dog walking etc.

Temperament is HUGELY important, no matter the owner of the dog.

Behaviour as well - some breeds need more exercise than others and if you were to get a mutt with a very-high energy breed in it when you can't provide it with large amounts of energy then that would be a big issue.

Your standard dog owner who is only after a companion animal still needs to be taking things like temperament and behaviour into consideration.

II agree with Rouge. Like if all you want is a low energy companion, something like a Mastiff is 100% perfect if you don't mind the slobber at sight of food. But if you are a low energy person and get something like a Lab, it's going to go mad, not crazy, I mean angry mad. It won't listen, this is the kind of situation where you have dogs going and tearing up furniture and biting people.

hmm... might be being unfair to labs there. The only time I met a violent lab was one that had been rescued that a friend who runs a re-homing charity asked us to look after for a day until she could pick it up.

Poor thing went crazy at the sight of me and my sister. Think teenagers had abused it badly. Had to be put down later apparently

rogue it's important, but their needs are not so specialized they need to seek a pure breed. their are always dogs in shelters with a variety of good temperments and diffrent personalitys and behaviours.

I'm not being mean to labs, I love labs. They're energetic. But what I'm saying is that you can't treat an energetic dog, SUCH AS a lab, like you would treat a mellow one, SUCH AS a mastiff, or stuff starts going wrong. And like the dog going crazy at your sight. That's similar to my dog, apparently the person who used to beat her always wore a baseball cap and cowers in fear when she sees someone other than me or my mom wearing a baseball cap.

There are two kinds of Labradors in my experience. There's the really smart ones, you know the ones that know an entire list of tricks and retrieve or herd. Then there's the "stupid as a box of hair" Labradors. I'm not sure if it's because of overbreeding or what but they seem to go one way or the other.

They also seem to be getting bigger. Why are there 80 pound labs? Labs are supposed to weigh like 45 pounds!

Rouge Dragon is right that many breeds have character traits, Red setters being dippy, Patterdale terriers being snappy, Greyhounds nervous, but this is not a guarentee and each animal is also influenced highly by the type of upbringing and treatment, as well as some of the influence of the breed, so a pedgree does not always ensure you will get the same behavior traits.

Some working dogs are definately bred for a purpose, some no longer perform that (i.e. border terriers were bred to go in saddle bags hunting) and some do. Those breeds are understandable if certain physical criterea need to be filled. The problem arises that a lot of breeders who show the animals, do not work them as well, and still want dew claws removed and tails docked, even tho' it does not affect the dog, it just means lower marks in the show ring!

But how do you know? That's the problem.

If it came between a dog from a breeder with a background and bred temperament versus a mutt from the RSPCA and I had a young family, I'd pick the bred dog any day! And as much as that isn't the case all the time, I wouldn't be taking chances if I had kids!

well you ask the shelter what they know of the dog, shelters do their best to access the temperment and nature of the dogs they get. Then you ask to see the dog, and you assess it yourself and make a decision. When I was a kid all of our family dogs were from shelters, and we fostered a few dogs untill they could find owners.

It's pretty rare for a dog to be so twisted up in the head it's a danger to bring into a family. Dogs that are like this you usually can tell just by hanging out with them a bit.

Sure theirs no gurantee, but theirs no gurantee about pure breeds either. THeirs a lot more fidelity if you go to a proper breeder that actually gives a damn, but most people go to half assed breeders or worse puppy mills.

dogs that are a danger are often put down rather than run the risk of someone getting injured by a dog whose snapped

Shelters in our area make you fill out applications and they match pet personality with people personality

Since we're on this topic does anyone else get pissed off when you hear about someone paying for a crossbreed? Like a Morkie or a Labradoodle? These are NOT DOG BREEDS, let alone a breed recognized by the AKC! Why the heck are people charging for them?! FFuffufufuuuuffuu.

.. ahem. Sorry pet peeve.

yo, mama! look what I got...

A pet peeve, eh, Ringshadow? Nice one!

Tom, I think there might be a few people on this board fighting for that guinea pig

I have guinea pigs!



My brother is holding them here. As you can tell they're just thrilled.

Dogs dumbed down by domestication.

Nice link, Rouge... reminds me of humans on the Internet... either bark at or lick each others backside with little in between

I feel it is quite a natural reaction being trapped - errm "jailed". Most "people (just) have dogs" - means the canines got to hang out in captivity and wait for their master to throw them some food and take for the daily walk in the (prison) yard... I'm not surprised.



Whereas I find that only partly true... it depends on the environment and the master. Most of the dogs I encounter in Goa will be able to return to the wild within short periods of time.

And last but not least: you can train your dog.

my

If anything, I have more sympathy for cross-breeders than purebreeders. Purebreeding is why the German Shepherd can barely walk anymore and why English bulldogs can't be born without a C-section.

Poodles are a good mixing breed because they don't shed and they're very smart, but their somewhat rebellious attitude can be diluted out with the adoring loyalty of a retriever breed. The health issues that have been caused by literally hundreds of generations of inbreeding can be greatly reduced (never eliminated) by cross-breeding, as well. There's a reason these dogs are popular.

As for the AKC, I view them as a pro-cruelty, anti-dog organization. Oh, they claim to be for the dogs, but just try to get your mutt registered. They don't care about mutts, and mutts are the majority of dogs. Furthermore, the breed standards of kennel clubs sometimes call for culling healthy puppies, and the breed standards of other breeds actually stipulate that they have sometimes debilitating physical deformities. No group of people who loves dogs would do such things to them.

Om the day that the last dog pound closes and every dog has a home, there will be a reason to breed them. Until then, the genetic horror show called the "AKC breed standards" will remain just that: a horror show.

I agree - though purebreeding isn't the reason for the German shepers low hips... it's the perverted view of "desirable beauty" of individual breeders - and consumers buying this.

If there would not be a market for, they would not produce for it.

Anyone coming up with proposals about "skillful communication" - one that is funny AND effective - to raise awareness, please step forth and get a