Poi Guidebook For Everyone

This thread has done so much for my movement. Thank you so much!

Peter, nice to hear I could help you with something

moved

moved

Whoaaa dude!

Honestly you really are on to something here, I would love to sit down for a deeeeeeep Thomas/Max discussion again but only about these things.

There are some stuff I don´t agree with, off course, but most of it is like silk for my ears to hear.

So what is poi about? What is the secret to understand, learn and become a good poi spinner?

Max, you are missed!

Circular dreams!

//Thomas

Thanks, monkeyboy, I feel the same about discussing these things



bring on the stuff you don't like! seriously, I am interested in your opinion as well as in the opinion of any other poi player!



I will probably talk about "The Secret" in the very last chapter of this guidebook. I think we've talked about it a lot in the past so I feel like you are aware of it.

All the best in Thaliand!

Go for it.

If nothing else, it will spark off other ideas.

Seems pretty decent so far.

Hi max

Good stuff there, I'd have to work really hard to fault any of it and since I'm feeling lazy, I won't.

Errrrm, yes, the psychology of poi. I be careful with that topic as there's tons of stuff out there pertaining to learning that can easily be translated straight across to poi..like the learning curve. One thing you might want to avoid is getting too deep that's to say, avoid the overly academic and focus more on the practical.

One idea to include would be stressing the importance of learning a move in "the other direction" at the same time as learning it in the "easy" direction. Experience has shown ( well me at least ) that even if you don't plan on doing that move in the "hard" direction, learning the move in that hard direction will ( may? ) help learning the move in the "easy" direction...easier.

There's also the added bonus of, eventually, that "hard" direction, might just magically become the "easy" direction over time. I've experienced this with spiral wraps. I found it easier to go from 3bt weave, turn into the wrap to the right and exit the wallplane circles by continuing the turn and exiting in the three beat again. Now, after a couple of years, I find that turning to my left may feel a little more awkward, but it's much more reliable.

It may be worth considering including a blurb on not only drilling the basics but drilling moves, or combinations too. I know this is boring but the benefits are better overall control and with that, comes confidence in one's abilities.

@aston: let the sparkling begin

@stout: thanks for the crit!



yes, I definitely agree with you on that one. Of course I could post a list of books I'd recommend to read on the topic but who would actually read it? (well I probably wouldn't hehe). That's why I really try hard to adapt the stuff I find somewhere else as good as possible to the poi language and make it as practible as possible. The learning curve was only used to show the cause for the emotions people feel when practising poi but I think you got that anyways




excellent stuff, I didn't think about it recently but I think I've posted some thoughts about that in (the German ) Part V of the guide but I might come back on what you just said very soon!

Ok so here we, it was an hour ago I read it but I will try to remember my thoughts.
They may not come in order I just write the pieces I remember.

------

The head, what I remember you described like follow your movement with the head, what I miss in that sentence is to practise the total opposite. When your arms for example are placed on the left side of you body, look to the right, it gives the trick and the person that perform it a totally different look. And remember that your body always should be balanced while spinning so always try to use your different bodyparts to compensate and among these the head is very important.

Feet, try to most of the time work with flat feet to the ground and not only toe tapping the ground. Some people tend to lift there feet from the ground to take a step, and when they supposed to put down there feet they only touch the ground with there toes before they lift the foot again to move and put it down somewhere else and many times they put down there foot only to realize "ah [censored] I lost my balance" and they need to move again, off course the person don´t realize that the brain is telling them to move the feet, they just do it. For a person watching this it gives a feeling of lack in controll and balance even though they don´t realize it, it still gives the audience the feeling. When you lift your feet from the ground make sure to know where to put it next, make it smooth and with a clear decision.

Dantian: Yes you are so right, but when I play i always try to move the centre even further down to somewhere on my thighs. With that I mean that I try to play with bend knees, never push them back and lock them, when you do stalls for example, do them from you thighs/knees not only in your arms. When you played poi for three hours and you go to bed tired in back, torso, shoulders, neck and so on, there is maybe something wrong, try to practice next time so you get tired in you thighs. However watch out for "I crapped my pants but I keep spin poi anyway style"

Arms: Learn to play with straight arms, many moves in poi is being based of making circles and to make a good circle you need a good centre of rotation, If this centre is moving around the whole time (that is what happens if you bend your arms) you will never learn the rythm of a simple flower cos the centre of rotation change place every time and even though it´s just a tiny tiny bit your brain will never learn the move cos it´s different every time. Learn with straight arms and then play around with bend arms.

Learning a trick: Repeat, repeat, repeat as you say but I say it again, you never learn a trick, sorry. I don´t know how many times I told myself "yes I can finally do the BTB weave to find myself saying the same thing a month or two later. Repeat, repeat and repeat even more, a move never gets good enough!

Transitions is what I can see a big problem in the poi world. Many people don´t realize how big impact transitions have your style and the way you play poi. It´s the transitions that makes your style, it´s the transitions that makes you unique, it´s the transitions that can [censored] with other poi spinners mind not necessary the trick/move itself.

That is what I can remember, sorry for being off topic if I went off topic and also remember this thoughts goes for me and not what scream out is right or wrong.

Keep writing dude, this is good!

//Thomas

thomas, thank you very much!
maybe you've seen already that I am currently re-writing this 3 year old thread so I will definitely pay attention to some of the aspects you have mentioned! stay tuned, tiger muhaha

Chapter I & II updated, ain't that good news?

max

duvan: I think that your points about stepping and head movement in particular are useful.

I tend to use the principles I learned about movement in karate, but not as precisely. The "angry serious" look can get a bit much after a while. I try to avoid it unless I am hamming it up. And yes, looking the "wrong" way when doing a trick can be amusing:
Like a horizontal stall out to the right of a butterfly done just after you look left gets a couple funny looks.

Will need to think about other stuff.

Nevisoul: re: learning a move.T here is definitely a point when I find I can say that I "know" a move. For me it is when I can do it continuously/consciously. For example, I can do a btb weave continuously now. (Transitions are an issue though.... ) Beyond that, I know that I can clean it up and get it better, but I still think that saying that I "know" the btb weave is not unwarranted.

right or try looking at the audience while doing antispin buzzsaw flower and stuff


Chapter III, IV & V updated. there have been a lot of changes. worth reading a second time if you read this thread 3 years ago for the last time

The pictures rock!

very nice,

:R

Now, this stuff really start to take shape and I like what I see and read, a lot.

Max, I know that you have a lot to do but I would be very happy to see this as a PDF named to something you have in mind.

If there is anything I could help you with to make this possible, please tell me. Love your stuff, you got a good mind but I told you that before....

And please don´t call me Tiger, no one here gets the joke (hopefully ), I threw the belt in the garbage so no more Tiger, except for you

//Thomas

aston: Didn´t notice until now that you replied to me, sorry.

Here is a more detailed explanation of what I mean though.

We take the BTB weave as you mentioned for an example. You can do it continuously/consciously in this moment as you say. But the more you play poi you will discover so much more of how your body, feet, wrist, fingers, arms, shoulder and so on work together and this is where it all change.

The BTB weave you can do now is based on the possibilities of your body combined with your poi but what happens when you realize that you all this time moved your feet wrong or that your body had a bad position or as simple as the planes, you just suddenly realize HOW TO ACTUALLY DO IT, and this is where it change, to another trick, in my opinion, yes.

And this is the reason that I write that I never learn a trick cos it´s always under development. Yes I can do a trick but none of them looks the same as they did when I learned them.
I could do the BTB weave for more or less four years ago but I still cant say that I can do it forwards, backwards perhaps but I know that there is something missing, I don´t know what yet, but I know that it will improve this move a lot when I realize what I been doing wrong this whole time, again

So to make it short, I never learn a trick cos I always realize after a while Ivé been doing it wrong so instead of doing the same mistake again (telling myself I can do trick) I prefer to say that it´s always under development.

I hope all this text made it a little bit more clear

And don´t forget that is all in my mind and how I think and I´m a mental poi geek *moahahaha*

Hey max...great work on the rewrites there. Yep, I hadn't read this thread since it first appeared in 2005...IIRC, I quite liked it then too.

The only thing I disagree with is the importance of having a teacher, especially at the beginning of one's spinning career. The reason i disagree is that having a teacher makes learning so much faster and there's a greater chance that a neophyte spinner will stay with these arts if they're given a large body of knowledge to play with right from the get go.

I'm speaking from personal experience here, because when I started spinning back in 2003,, when there was very little ( comparatively speaking ) out there in the way of instructional aids, I most likely wouldn't have stayed with these arts had I been left to my own devices to figure it out.

Likewise with learning a trick ( hey, it took me two years to learn the btb weave ) sometimes it really helps to have someone who "knows" the move to observe and point out possible bad habits or faults that are hindering the spinner in their quwst to learn a trick.

All in all, you're totally right on with the idea that a teacher is no substitute for practice, likewise with the idea of setting a specific time frame for working on a trick.

I'll usually work on a trick right up until I start getting frustrated with it, then either freestyle a little ( just to re convince myself that I don't suck ) or simply put the poi down and go do something else for a few hours. This is mostly due to my awareness that I might not "get" that trick today, but if I "sleep on it" I'll most likely have more success with it the next time around.

Then there's what i call "making it strong" which is to say, that once I've "learned" a trick, I have to drill it 10 000 times including transitioning into, and out of that trick so I can get it reliable enough to incorporate into my regular spinning repertoire. As an example, I've been working on airwraps, hyperloops and orbitals over the past four days...I've got airwraps down "pretty good ( both directions out/in ) and I'm aware that my in/out needs lots of work ( feels somehow "unnatural", like antispin ) and my hyperloops are "coming along. I can "do" hyperloops, but there's a certain smoothness lacking and a successful hyperloop, in the way I want to perform these is still a rarity.....so I'll drill 'em until they're where I want them. ( both directions, but only turning forwards, as I'm saving the backwards turning for orbitals....I get confused easily

Nevisoul: I get what you mean. I just view it as the same trick on another plane of elegance/panache/ease of doing/whatever. Understand your view and do not disagree, is just not quite how I think of it.

Stout: Good points I think. :applause:

Ahhhh, it does get interesting now, this book. I didn't read it however many years ago. Cos let's face it, poi is for girls, or in your guys cases, girly boys.

I was thinking about writing something similar along these lines, cos I get so bored of people asking me certain questions, which I have answered before and are also the wrong questions. Interesting to see some of my points written out by you Max.

One thing I particularly enjoy (something a friend pointed out to me) that when at a convention, most people when practising, and they pull something off, or they totally fail at a trick, will look up/around afterwards at the person they respect the most, to see if they saw thier success or failure. It's an interesting bit of body language to look for at a gathering.