Apples and oranges *Now with dance*

I quite liked that video..

The spinning was a little fast for the setting and the music, but what the hey..the idea of having to "give 'er" or put more into it when either a camera is present or people are watching is common to most of us.

I liked how the music faded in over the sound of the waves and then faded out leaving only the sound of the waves and the flames as I've always been a big fan of hearing what's going on in the spinning environment as well as seeing it. That music matched the setting perfectly.

I find it hard to fault your technique, so I won't even try.

At first i thought the out of focus issue was some sort of effect and didn't mind it at first, as with the music, it fit...but the second time....it became somewhat annoying. I'm thinking you did multiple burns here, filmed them and edited the footage together. My thoughts are, you could improve the watchability of this video just by reediting it.

I'd suggest that on your next video, zoom in a little so we can see more of you ( yes, I know it was a "silhouette" video but that large black area in the foreground looked like so much "dead space" and I would have preferred more you, less beach.

I liked the contrast between the largely deep blue sky and the orange flames, a departure from the usual "sunset" videos that have an red/orange/yellow sky. hummmm....maybe some sort of filter that'll push the sky colour over to violet/indigo

I'm not sure how I feel about the hybrid tutorial. You don't have to do any threading to switch directions; that seems like something of a crutch. Just my 1/50th of a dollar.

Radix, how do you mean you don't need to do any threading? In order to do the hybrid, as far as I understand you need to have the hand doing the extension on top, so switching which is on top requires a TTN type action.

If you mean that this is incorrect I'll need to do some practice and try getting it with the other hand on top, but no matter what I do it naturally switches to extension on top.... though now I think of it, theres no real reason I can see theoretically why you'd need either hand on top, so I'm probably incorrect in that assumption, but I'd like a confirmation on that one.

Regardless, it was just an easy way I discovered for people get into doing that particular hybrid.

Thanks for the input, radix, now I've got more fuel to think about the way that particular movement works!



Hey, man, thats exactly what I thought! I threw the music in because I love it and thought that it'd fade in and out like that to some degree, but I didnt think it'd work as well as it did in that way. I think if the spinning had have fitted in better it would have been mesmerizing. I envy my friends who had never seen antispin or anything like that before who were actually mesmerized by it!

As for all the other stuff, I must say I agree with you, but my editing skills are quite low at the moment, as is my time to edit. The zooming in however couldn't be helped... I had expected to move about a bit more and I didn't have anyone willing to man the tripod to help keep me in frame. I need a lot more time working with framing and editing and all those video related things, so I'll make sure I keep a watch on it.

Thankyou very much for taking the time to give some critical feedback, guys, I'll take it on board for my next vid which will be either with socks or with LED poi.

Oh! And yeah, I did do two burns, because I'd been talking to a friend about the patterns you could make, when I finished the burn I cursed myself for forgetting a few of the ones she had wanted to see in particular, so back in front of the camera I jumped!

I too was wondering about the threading bit, but since I haven't made it past the top part, and am just following the tutorial which says "start from TTN" I'm still open to the idea that threading may be necessary in order to complete the bottom half.

As an aside.....when this site was down for upgrading, I decided to explore YouTube based on comments form a local guy who claims he learned poi from the internet, yet doesn't frequent HoP preferring instead to search out video tutorials instead.

I never got into airwraps and hyperloops, just because they were "fashionable" at the time ( I'm a rebel ), found Durbs' tutorial, and now I'm a airwrapping, hyperlooping fool. Oh yea, I, having plane control issues, as well as timing issues, so most of my spinning time over the past few days has been devoted to cleaning those up.

Anyway.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to make a watchable video. I realise that that type of video, filmed under a specific type of natural light has a very limited window of opportunity in which to film, after all, you wouldn't want to edit clips together where the background lighting in constantly changing.

Ha...forgetting to do "moves" I do all that all the time. Sometimes I'll work on a pattern with an aim to spinning it at our weekly fire jam sessions, and find myself thinking awwww crap I forgot the *****, while I'm driving home.

No threading is needed for the bottom half. I think its EASIEST (For me) to use threading to do the directional changes.

I have made an extra little add on bit to the tutorial that i need to edit, so that'll prob help there.

RE: making a video, I made it so I could get valuable feedback, and I got that, so thanks to all who contributed. ^)^

Yeah, I meant to say that you can switch directions/do the entire move without ever switching which hand is on top.

After mulling it over, I think the reason it's easier to do with a hand switch is that it gets the poi back in sync (read: out of polyrhythm, save for cateye hybrids) before launching into the other direction. Just a hunch though, since after trying it I find it more difficult than doing it with the same hand on top. Apparently I have my own crutch to work out as well.

I like the idea of using the top and bottom half as a teaching method, going to have to give that a go next time someone goes "ooh, I want to learn THAT!"

Oh, and a small note on teaching/performing butterfly hybrids; I envision a horizontal line straight through the middle of the pattern, dividing it in half. If your hands are tracing a clockwise circle (spinner's perspective) then on top half the right hand is leading, and on the bottom the left hand leads.

Picturing it this way helps me keep my hands from over taking each other.

Cool, thanks for the tip on that, radix, I'll include that in the tutorial amendment that I'll edit at some point... thats if you don't mind me stealing your intellectual property for the masses, of course.

"Intellectual property" = worst concept humans have invented. Eff that noise, do what you want.

A new video!! Bit dancier... Its still all a bit too quick, but we're getting closer to what I do off camera! So I would love feedback on it.

I've titled it "The day I discovered poi"

Still not conquered the fear of the camera, I had a few robotic moments, but I'm getting closer.

No, I'm not a good drummer either...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrZlbFMy8ro

Please! Rip it apart... tell me what is in your opinion bad, whats good. How to improve... what to keep up...

Over all. I liked that video.

I see what you mean about fear of the camera, as your acting skills didn't really convey the message you were trying to get across with the opening segment on the video.

I knew, instantly what was going based on the title, but had I been a layman watching that video not knowing the title, I would have been a little confused. I feel you could have been way more emotive in "the discovery" section, like jumping back from the poi when you first come across them to convey an element of surprise. You were a little too far away from the camera to convey anything through facial expression, maybe get someone to operate the camera, so they can zoom in on your face at key moments.

I didn't really like the drum track, not only did it not fit in with the music later on, had I not known what I was watching right from the start, I might have been thinking that the poi were responsible for making the sound too. Might you have been trying to portray the idea that, through sound, the poi might have been "calling" you over to the stump ?

I want you to make me share in your curiosity and your satisfaction when you finally figure out what these things are actually for.

As a spinning video, I had difficulty seeing your poi because they blended into the top 2/3 of the background and since that background was heavily textured I would have been happier with brightly coloured poi instead...say orange.

Good work on tossing the poi into the air at the end of your spin, but that expression of joy was quickly negated by your picking them up. The jump over the camera was a nice touch.

Five stars for effort and originality dude, I hope that wasn't being too critical.

I got the butterfly hybrid things going today and I did it without any threading at all.

I've got to say, I found the idea of a threading component rather confusing, which limited me to thinking too much about the top half/ bottom half rather than a just making circles with my hands.

I found this great tutorial, which helped.

Thats all very much fair criticism, Stout.

When I shot the video I had no intention of throwing the drums in... it was on the way home, tapping away on my steering wheel that I decided to throw the drums in over the top. But when I threw the drums over, yeah, the idea was that the poi were making the sound, had I had this idea from the beginning, I probably would have done the spinning at a pace that it could perfectly match up with the sounds of the drum, but I might be able to grab a few friends one night and do up a track for it myself so that the music DOES fit the spinning.

And the acting... theres lots of things that tampered with that... probably the fact that I didn't really treat it as a "discovery" I really should have put a lot more into it... but I guess thats suppression due to performance anxiety... but probably even more influential than that is my complete lack of acting skills.

When I've gotten over the whole performance anxiety thing I'll go back to this very location and shoot it again... probably not using facial expressions though... I don't tend to get people helping me with this kind of thing... I'm a one man band on that front.

I may well do this as a fire video instead(in which case I'd have help)... or perhaps glow (in which case it would actually happen) that would remove the problem of the poi blending in nicely.

Hahah, negating the joy expression occurred because I hadn't intended to jump over the camera... I'd intended to fade it out there, but I decided to be silly after I had finished making the thing... and decided to keep it.

Hows the progression of body movement in your opinion?? I feel I slipped back into robot stance a few times in there, but I had a go... How is it on its own and compared to my other stuff? (No need to watch the other stuff again, of course, just memory if you remember it (Or if you have seen it)

I may potentially just begin practicing in front of the camera with no intention of doing anything with it but watching it for personal feedback... perhaps that'll loosen me up a bit..

Thanks for your criticism, I'll keep it all fully in mind when I do a reshoot somewhere down the track.



Yeah, what I made was pretty well just a supplement for the other tutes, I don't really have time to make a full tute... I had intentions of doing a full tute for that one, but I have really been stumped for time (the other video was fun to make and was part of my leisure activities! :D). Glad to hear you got it! The threading was just an easier way to do directional changes (For me) My girlfriend got it that way as well, so I threw it out there.

Again thanks for your reply, any criticism is good to hear, I'd love to re-do this again with more time and effort put into it... this wasn't even one afternoons work from inception to editing and I quite liked the idea, so I'm keen to give it another go with better skills, better planning and more time and any tips on improvement are greatly appreciated!

I'm glad you're cool with the criticism, sometimes that sort of input can be taken a little too personally.

My preconceived notion, based on the title had you casually walking along, discovering these "things", picking them up out of curiosity, eventually figuring out what they were really for and then exploiting a natural talent for creating kinetic art with them. This is why I'm saying I didn't think the drum fit in too well, are these dance props or are they both props and musical instruments ?

It's a good idea I think, working "backwards" fitting the music to the spinning. Were I a musician, I'd probably give that idea a go. Film the spin edit the video and compose the music to reverse choreograph, if you will, the whole thing.

Yea..performance anxiety. That's one of the reasons I got into poi in the first place. I'm not one of these natural performer types and I was curious as to whether I could take up something like spinning and actually get out there and "sell it" At this stage of the game ( 5 years in ) I've come to the conclusion that it's a difficult thing to fake as my heart isn't really in it read..my inner drama queen isn't that strong and I'm perfectly happy in a "backup singer" capacity which is why I perform with a group rather than going solo.

If push comes to shove, I can "fake it" , like the time after an "incident" I found myself up alone on stage with a flaming staff and one flaming poi, thinking..now what?..wing it..It actually worked but it was all do to poncing and had nothing to to with my skill in manipulation a toy combination that I had zero experience with.

I figure there's two types of spinners, the natural performers who are coming into these arts with a performance/dance background, and the rest of us. Yuta's a prime example of the first, you know one of those spinners who gets the grown whooping and hollering, whereas I'm one of those spinners who gets *some* crowd appreciation yet I regularly get approached after the show and told "that was really great"

You footwork looked fine. There was one instance where you had to "catch yourself" and I attributed that to uneven ground.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not the best person to accept feedback from when it comes to moving with your poi. I've noticed that *most* spinners tend to move in a standard fashion and I'm convinced that body motion is limited by the attitude of I'm a spinner first, a dancer second, so unless your standing rigid, I'm not going to be critical on anyone's personal interpretation of how these arts should look.

I'm more of a tai chi style of moving guy myself, constantly seeking stability and trying not to trip over my own two feet.

Meenick did a performance here a couple of months ago, a solo show, and I hear it was just stunning. Unfortunately i missed it as our group was performing at the same festival, but about half a mile away and there was no way I'd be able to run over and see Nick's show between sets. I'm looking forward to his next inspirational video.

The criticism is the reason I post these... to get criticism. I say rip it apart. I would really quite love to have all the nits picked out of it, to affirm what I knew I needed to work on, to point out new areas to work on and so I can get a basic idea of what to work on in what order.

The idea i was working with was actually going to be that I would create a proper drum track to the entire video... but I got lazy and anxious to see what people thought of the initial idea... and I was going away for two weeks from my usual PC and my drum... whenever I spin... I spin to music that I create myself in my head to match whatever movements I feel like doing at the time, so I was trying to express that, making it a much more personal account.

I switch between a very tai chi (not that I've done tai chi before) oriented style and a very interpretive dancey style... I tried to illustrate a switch in the styles, but I kinda just mashed them together instead because I was too nervous to slow my poi.

I figure you're on the right track with your approach. IMO videos with elements to them other than the spinning is a style that's underexplored.

I keep thinking about making a video in this style but, unfortunately my imagination runs away and I end up with this monster of an idea that's either impossible, or too expensive.

Hey, I just spent way too much time looking for that video of a French girl spinning on a stage, in lingerie to cabaret music.

I'd like to encourage to keep exploring these ideas.

Well, I'll try to find some lingerie for you, Stout, but I really dunno if I've got the legs for it.

I dunno about that, I figure you'd look hot in stockings

it's been done though.

What i was thinking of that particular video for was using it as an example of one of the rare videos where stage, costuming, and music all come together in a common theme.

I liked this video a bit more than the first. It held my attention through the whole thing at least. It had some sort of storyline and flow of progression which is a good start. I do feel like these things were a bit lacking, however.

I would have liked a more creative way of discovering poi instead of just randomly stumbling upon them on the stump... Ideally some way which leads you to wanting to spin them... And then a slower and more natural progression through learning how to dance with and manipulate them.

Again, the spinning itself was fine but I still didn't notice much in the way of interesting body position and movement. You also tend to go back to your base/idle moves quite frequently (weaves and reels) which you should try to avoid. Like I said before, try to come up with unique combinations of moves which don't involve ending up in a basic pattern.

Lastly, I want to say that I don't really like sock poi for a performance video unless it is absolutely necessary or part of the plot. Sock poi are just generally not visually pleasing (unless you have a specific effect which you need them to achieve). They're great for tutorial purposes or highly tech routines which can't be done otherwise, however, in this case, I would have liked to see you with a set of tailed poi (which are quite underutilized these days) or even basic ball and string poi. This is rather nit picky and personal preference but I figured Id throw it in there.

I suggest filming yourself much more often, even if you do nothing but watch the footage alone then tape over it. Over time this will help with your camera shyness and can also be a great way to see what you are doing from a 3rd person perspective so that you may learn what looks best and improve it in the future. At the very least, keep on keepin' on. I look forward to the next...

Thanks for the blunt criticism, MikeIcon.

The way of discovering the poi comment is fair enough, I guess, but this was sort of just a fleshing out of ideas, I've got a similar idea for the glowy ones that just wouldnt work with the socks.. now I've just got to fix my computer so I can use adobe premiere rather than windows movie maker!

On the list for the remake is:

Choreo! !!
Glow!


And yeah... tailed poi are despised by moi for the most part, but I guess thats because I attempted to learn with them once and that was a disaster, I might give them another go when I've got the cash to splash on a pair...

Anyway... I have a DIFFERENT idea that will need a fair bit of fleshing out that I'll hopefully do properly, but to your dismay, Mike I'll be doing it with socks as thats all I've got that it'll work with, but I don't think it should matter too much... its not the kind of idea that will be affected by the prop. ^_^