The voluntary human extinction movement

 Written by :jo_rhymes


ooh Atlantis!

 Written by :willworkforfoodjnr


I wish I was breeding. Right now. *sigh*

Will comment on other issues later!

 Written by oc Lightning



So that raises the next issue -- and here is where I take issue with VHEMT -- in order to accept VHEMT, you have to accept that human life is actually somehow less ...er... pointful (is that the opposite of "pointless"?) than other life. If you can accept that, then it makes sense that humans should go extinct... or does it?

 Written by oc Lightning



See, humans may yet become a starfaring race. As we spread across the gulfs between the stars, we will take other life forms with us (although hopefully we'll leave mosquitos and Hippies behind ). In another 2 billion years, the Sun's temperature will have increased to the point where Earth's surface is much more akin to that of Venus today (and this is still 2 billion years before the Sun becomes a red giant!).

If we all die, then all life on Earth has no chance. Alternatively, another species may become sentient. For all we know, it could have happened before.

Of course, what I bring up only forestalls another problem: a yellow dwarf star like the Sun has a lifespan of about 10 billion years, give or take a couple billion. A red dwarf, because of its far slower rate of fusion, may live 100 billion years, and maybe as long as a trillion. That's far older than the age of the universe now.

But eventually, all the hydrogen in the universe will either be fused or will be dispersed in useless, diffuse clouds that cannot form stars. Galaxies will "relax" and stars will either be cast out of the galaxy or fall into the central black holes. Eventually, the stars will stop shining and only black holes and neutron stars will remain. A few hundred trillion to a few quadrillion years after that, proton and neutron decay will become an important factor and even the neutron stars and few remaining bodies of normal matter will evaporate over time. The last things to go will be the black holes. As the universe expands ever more quickly (which seems to be what the current theories indicate), the only things that will remain will be vast "atoms" consisting of a single electron and a single positron. These "atoms" will be larger than the size of the current visible universe. They will slowly circle each-other and eventually annihilate as they come together. Whether the universe will run out of these or expand so quickly that they never all get used up is unclear.

 Written by :VHEMT


That's humanity for you: our sights are on the stars while we're sinking in toxic sludge. For space migration to keep our numbers stable, 100 space ships holding 2,000 people each would have to blast off every day: one every 15 minutes. Contraception is cheaper.

New world colonization by Europeans didn't relieve population pressure in Europe -- just increased it elsewhere.

What kind of life would we primates, barely out of the jungle, make for ourselves in a space station? We aren't domesticated enough to keep from going bonkers in remote, desolate outposts like Antarctica. Anyway, who wants to live inside a building for 10 or 20 years? To seriously imagine ourselves living that way reveals the extent of our mental disconnect from Nature.

We barely live healthy lives in our artificial environments here on Earth. Indoor air averages many times more toxic than outside air. Emotional stress resembles that of captive animals -- for good reason. Although our cage bars may only be abstract, like the bars crossing the €, $, £, and ¥ in our money, their specter crosses our paths to freedom.

Dreaming of some day shooting our aspirations off into space could deaden our sense of responsibility here on Earth. We have a nasty habit of fouling our nests and moving on. The USA's National Aeronautic and Space Administration (NASA) has jettisoned the phrase, "To understand and protect our home planet" from its mission statement. Already, near space is loaded with so much obsolete electronic junk and astronauts' end products that NASA Space Shuttles and the International Space Station have to dodge or get a fatal hole. We've placed our cultural icons on the moon: a flag, a golf ball, and an abandoned vehicle. Space trash.

Before we seek out new worlds and boldly go where no human has gone before, we have an obligation to clean up our messes on this world.

Let's be grateful we don't live on the moon or in space. Our personal castles on Earth may not be much, but our efforts often make them garden sanctuaries a thousand times nicer than luxury quarters in a giant tin can drifting in space.

 Written by oc Lightning


And that makes me wonder...

...if there is no point to it all, then why not keep on living?

 Written by :jo_rhymes


I don't think mass suicide is the answer, at all, I can just understand why they are doing it. It seems quite noble if you think about it!

 Written by :Doc Lightning


Well, we have no other known intelligences on which to base assumptions, but it stands to reason that if there were another race before us, at least some of their garbage (radioactives, plastics) would still be around, making us wonder where they are from.

To my knowledge, we haven't found such things.

The Mayans?

 Written by :PsyRush


Nihilism can't be used as an excuse to commit crimes (the crime in this case causing the end to all life on earth somehow - assuming it will happen).

 Written by : Jo

Most of Nature is in balance, the various eco-systems make life on Earth pretty-near perfect. and then humans came along. And it all got out of balance.

 Written by : PsyRush - in context to VHMT

The crime in this case causing the end to all life on earth somehow - assuming it will happen

 Written by : PsyRush - quoting VHMT

all species have equal worth, but because humans are the only ones that cause far more other species to go extinct and disrupt the biosphere, humans ought to go.

If - to your own measure - all species have equal worth, then why on earth humans have to go? Because - according to your judgement - we are the only ones that cause other species to go extinct and disrupt the biosphere?

I can follow that logic and fortunately it doesn't work this way. The Universe is not caught up in Duality, it doesn't apply these standards. At this point it seems as if the Universe enjoyd the opportunities - the human race provides - to express itself. Otherwise it would be the easiest of all for the Universe to punish and eradicate mankind from the surface of this planet (as happened with Dinosaurs gbefore) without affecting 'life' itself.

The fact that we still thrive should not mean reconfirmation that we're doing the right thing - and doesn't mean that we won't go extinct anytime soon - but it certainly is a fact to enjoy as much as possible...

Please, let doomsday only happen after the EJC - I would like to see mankind at its most profound and creative one more time, before we gotta go

 Written by :Doc Lightning

 Written by :PsyRush


Nihilism can't be used as an excuse to commit crimes (the crime in this case causing the end to all life on earth somehow - assuming it will happen).

Well but that's exactly my point. So it doesn't matter. Fantastic. Why not keep on living? So we accidentally wipe ourselves and all life on Earth. Oh shucks. Some green-skinned dude living on an earth-like planet ten million light years from here will never care.

 Written by :FireTom

 Written by : PsyRush

The crime in this case causing the end to all life on earth somehow - assuming it will happen

And the event to end all life on this planet - or in the Universe - is as remote as to aim a slingshot at Gizeh Pyramids from Trafalgar square.

Life is amazingly resistant to any threat. Even on this planet we will find life in the most hostile environments: 10.000 leaps under the sea and next to a sulphuric source. No light, no oxygen, heavy pressure, extreme heat - and still life evolves right there.

 Written by :Dr_Birgit


I won't click on the site because I've been on a similar one before, Mucky has taken care of commenting on some of the issues and I don't want to waste my time reading that nonsense again.

If they want to not breed, fine (I'm with willworkforfood though). Unfortunately some of them have also turned missionary and tried to tell off friends of mine for having a child and being horrible to the planet.

I'm sure they address the issue somewhere, but rather than waste energy and food and oxygen by having a website and existing, if they were serious about saving the planet they should just buy a gun and shoot some people, including themselves. Who knows, maybe they can start a successful cult if they use public settings.

 Written by :FireTom


I agree - walking a non-violent path and to surrender ones own existence might be a sign of highest possible evolution (just as spiritual masters don't just die, but do leave their bodies - like some willingly starve themselves to death, overcome the primal instinct of survival).

 Written by

Looking around in nature (I guess it's Lemmings) suicide on a large scale is a feasible option when the conditions of the environment does endanger the survival of the entire species. Mankind is not even remotely at this point.

 Written by :psyrush


So I have a bad day, get a gun, and go on a killing spree. Oh shucks. Some green-skinned dude living on an earth-like planet ten million light years from here will never care. Who cares, we're all going to die eventually anyway, it's not like it matters. </sarcasm>. Do you see my point?

 Written by r_Birgit


If you think human existence harms the planet and that's really important to you, then telling others to not have children while continuing your own existence is more than a bit hypocritical.

No, telling others not to have children while having children yourself would be hypocritical.

Also, do you really get a lot of people pushing their non-breeding ideas onto you? Things must be different in bristol. Even with all the environmental talk etc. i rarely even hear the subject of overpopulation even brought up, and coming across VHEMT was the first time i'd heard of people not breeding to save the planet.