PoiGeek.com - Thoughts, opinions etc

www.poigeek.com

Quite surprised this hasn't been mentioned on here before - it's a fairly significant development in the world of poi spinning...

Quick summary, it's a pay-per-view instructional video website which aims to teach poi spinning on a move-by-move basis.
Currently only has a couple of moves up, but the basic premise is obvious.

I think it's a good idea in theory, I even had a similar idea at one stage. The key thing obviously is ensuring the content is substantially better than the huge amounts of free lessons scattered around the interweb to give value for money.

Would anyone here consider using it?
Is anyone massively against the idea?

My only mild gripe with the whole site is the naming of moves, which aren't anywhere near "HoP standard", nor "general spinning community standard". Which is fine on it's own - but can (and will) lead to confusion when a PoiGeek'er meets a regular spinner, but also could hinder progress e.g. "Archer Weave" is just a long-arm/short-arm weave, yet without this qualifier, there's no obvious indicator that LA/SA can be applied to 90% of all poi moves...
This is probably hypocritical, but names for moves should be logical

I wouldn't consider using it, why should I pay for it when I can go to a meet and get taught 1-1 with people who are AWESOME at poi!

Jo's right.

And it seems that if quality is an issue, you wouldn't know until *after* you've paid.

I also had the thought that the different names could be a gimmick to get those who are hungry to learn more thinking "Oh, I don't know that one yet!" and when they pay and click it's something they already know. Just a thought.

I wouldn't spend money there.

Yeah, my thoughts too... Though I'm sure there was/will be a sample lesson somewhere along the line.

I personally don't think the move list (which I can't find anymore...) justifies the "Geek" part of the name, though it's hard to tell as you don't know what move they're talking about... I think GlitteGirl uses the same moves on her Temple of Arse, I mean Poi courses...
Major irritant was calling a 3-bt weave a polyrhythm

Icon aside, the inspirational videos were a long way from geeky too.

I don't like the fact you obviously have to pay for things, though at the top of firefox, the page is describes as "free poi video lessons"

A parallel could be drawn with howtodotherobot.com
They had their entire course up on YouTube for free viewing, but if you liked it or wanted a DVD or hi-res ad-free downloaded vids you paid (either for the course or individual lessons).

I'm not against the idea at all - I think it's a useful medium for people not able to get to a meet/workshop, or some people are just happier learning on their own - but the content makes me squirm a bit.

A newbie's impression: I came across that site a couple weeks ago during a general internet hunt for poi, and I passed right by it. Like Jo and Pele said, there's no real quality assurance there. I looked at some of the trailers for lessons that they have available just now, and there's nothing really dazzling there. As already said, learning in person trumps learning by video, and if you *do* need video to get your feet of the ground, between HOP, Playpoi, Spherculism, &c. there's enough free information out there to bring you to the point where learning any harder moves is a matter of practicing, not seeing more videos. Personally, I've learned more from people's home-made spinning videos than from actual lessons, because they show you how a move should feel and flow with everything else, not just what it looks like by itself.

Then again, it might appeal to some people, and I can see how their break-it-down approach could be effective, so I'm not prepared to say it's not a good idea. There are some times when seeing a move in one video just *doesn't* show you clearly enough what you're supposed to be doing, so you hit yourself on the head a hundred times before you accidentally find your hands doing the right thing (the natural learning process)! Still, I think a better setup than pay-per-view would be subscription-based.

I slso agree with Durbs though, that naming could be problematic. Then again, when my brother and I first picked up flower sticks we never even thought to look things up online so we wound up naming the tricks we "invented" after Eddie Izzard routines and jazz singers... Perhaps someone might suggest to them an "alternate names" list? Even if they want to use their names, they could supply names other people would be familiar with to help limit confusion. But to expand on Durbs' other comment about the Archer Weave, with an approach like that, they could potentially charge you for a lesson in every variation of every move, rather than teaching you [Set of Base Moves] and [Set of Variations Applicable to These Moves], which is how I've been learning. I.e. instead of [Weaves, Buzzsaws, Butterflies] along with [LA/SA, Isolation, Antispin], they might give you nine separate lessons.... I could see a student's progress being hindered in this regard...

Bottom line, I find there are better places to learn both the basics and more advanced techniques; I'd rather spend my poi money on equipment/fuel/&c. and let the learning come on its own.

EDIT:

 Written by :Durbs


Yeah, my thoughts too... Though I'm sure there was/will be a sample lesson somewhere along the line.

I personally don't think the move list (which I can't find anymore...) justifies the "Geek" part of the name, though it's hard to tell as you don't know what move they're talking about... I think GlitteGirl uses the same moves on her Temple of Arse, I mean Poi courses...
Major irritant was calling a 3-bt weave a polyrhythm

Icon aside, the inspirational videos were a long way from geeky too.

Their move list is under "Catalog" on their main page, and only includes the Archer Weave, along with a couple more "on the way." The Sample Lesson is the Archer Weave one under "Trailers".... They may include more as more moves are posted. At least that's what it looks like... Work in progress I guess!

It does seem an odd thing to try and sell

Not at all - I think it's a natural "progression" - there have been paid-for workshops/courses for several years and there have been online tutorials for a fair while now too, it's a natural blending of the 2.

As i've mentioned above, i don't think it's a "bad" idea - i just question the content...

I don't see a problem....GG's been offering online tutorials for purchase for years now and it's obviously been successful with the poigeek site being an opportunity to share the wealth.

Sure, depending on where you live, it's possible to get together with more experienced spinners and have them show you some stuff, but what's an isolated spinner to do ?

Is it a problem with people making a living off of teaching poi ? I've paid for workshops, and bought instructional DVDs from career poi teachers. Why should this be any different ?

Is it GG's rates ? Obviously, ToP is still in business, she she's getting what she's asking.

Is it the naming of patterns? Out of the hundreds of spinners I've met, only a handful are familiar with HoP terminology and I've pretty much given up on using the "proper" terminology because, even when I do, I find most spinners are more comfortable using their own made up names. It's a loosing battle IMO , at least on this side of the Atlantic.

I've never met GG, but I've exchanged posts with her and talked to several people who've been to event's she's sponsored, so based on those experiences, I find if very difficult to fault her.

She badmouthed HoP on Tribe ?...OK That explains alot. I had no idea she'd done that.

Not only to teaches come down to reputation, but they also come down to availability. When i first started spinning, there was an active poi studio in town, with a teacher who could actually teach. That was it though, there were no other options.

Problem was that there was no support after the four month series of lessons were done ( one lesson/week, $10/lesson ) once the course was done, it was "see ya !

This "renaming" of moves could just be a ploy to attract the unwary, but I doubt it. How many lessons would you actually pay for once you'd realised that a "move" you already knew was being re marketed under a different name ? If I bought a tutorial for a move called "the blender" only to find out it was the three beat weave spun really. really fast, it would be the last tutorial I bought and I'd be mighty pissed that I'd been had.

Mad enough to badmouth GG on Tribe.

If she's offering previews of the tutorials, then an experienced spinner should be able to determine just what they're about to buy. You figure ?

Mucky..I agree, there's plenty of free reference material out there that, wee someone learning poi form the internet, they need not pay anything. The archer weave ( IMO ) isn't the best of lessons, as you say it's just a variation on the three beat and should probably be included as a variation in the basic three beat tutorial.

The draw is in her style and presentation. Ever learn a move, by either watching a tutorial or video, run outside and try it, figure something's not quite right, run back inside, look at the move again, think you've figured it out, run back outside only to get stuck...again ? I sure have.

GGs tutorials five several different views, including hand motions and although I've never used one her tutorials for their intended purpose ( I'm too cheap, and the free stuff, I already knew ) I can see that format being somewhat more helpful than "the usual" ...Excepting Nick's ( and Durbs ) narrated tutorials...why weren't those around when I was learning ?

Oh I'm not saying they're bad, and I do like the break-it-down approach; I'm just giving my personal reasons for not having interest in them, as someone who's still pretty new to poi and working through the basics and thus within what I reckon is the "target" audience.

I wonder, whether the names are chosen because of the amount of free ones out there...

Someone looks at the course/moves list, sees "Hyperloop" (for example) than flips over to YouTube and types "hyperloop turorial" in...
Conversely, type in "Archer weave tutorial", not much is going to come up - "Hey, new stuff!" thinks punter.

Though I could be being over cynical.

I don't think that's cynical at all durbs, it's quite a common marketing tactic when final goods quality/ real content is effectively hidden from the purchaser.