Poi construction issue: kevlar wick

i made some accordian style kevlar wicks and practiced a bit w/ them before the first soak. bits of the yarn it's made of started to unravel from it. is there a way to curb the unraveling?

i used a three inch eye-bolt, two very wide washers, 2.5 inch kevlar, lock-washer, and a nut. the kevlar for each wick was about 75 or 76 cm long.

any feedback is much appreciated. thanx!

the inside of your lock washer's prolly gonna melt at some point.

not if it's just a metal split ring. i'm not using the type of nut w/ plastic to lock... it's a normal nut but i have a split ring in between the nut and lower washer.

That does happen quite alot to me but it never really becomes a problem, just be very aware or bits that might be able too come off whilst alight.
peace out
garbo

quote:

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"Be the change"
Mahatma Ghandi

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I think that white PVA glue stuff can help with the fraying - best check with Pele though, she's prob'ly got most experience with it all.

All da best

Noods

You might try folding the exposed end under before you secure it.

Diana

If you tuck the raw ends inside the fold you should have no problems at all with fraying. I've been using my kevlar accordians for about two months and countless burns with no signs of fraying at all. I'm not sure this is really documented on any of the construction sites, but it isn't that difficult to figure out.

However, I have been wearing on the ends where they scrape concrete. This is due to a number of factors: 1) I regularly lend my poi out to newbies and 2) I've been practicing with really long (five footers) chains recently.

BTW, are you the Tinker of baltwash-burning?

-p.

As Pele has suggested elsewhere on these boards, you can use plain-old white school glue, like Elmer's. I've been doing this as one anti-fraying measure on my wicks, and it seems to work fine. I lay a bead down right next to the cut-line before I cut, let it dry, and then make the cut, but you can apply it even after your wicks have been through burns.

Tucking the loose end under is only half the story: the loose end actually needs to be penetrated by your eyelet bolt so that it'll be held in place.

Others have commented on the problem of the nut working loose. One thing you can do to minimize the problem is to put two nuts on and tighten them against each other. Even better would be to scare up some "pinch nuts" (I know, that sounds painful), which look like normal nuts but with a flange that's pinched in a little. These are hard to come by, though--I think they're mostly used in aviation.

On my eye-bolt accordian poi I use two nuts with a lock washer inbetween. This way you are not reying to tighten against the kevlar which will compress almost indefinitely.

And then for good measure I fubar the threads to insure the nuts do not work loose.

-p.

wow! thank you all!! i'm making at least a couple sets. a small wick set and a large one for myself and another one for my sis.

peter: yup, it's me. maybe i'll see you this weekend?

"Tucking the loose end under is only half the story: the loose end actually needs to be penetrated by your eyelet bolt so that it'll be held in place."

Ah, yes, I forgot to mention I use 1.5" washers, top and bottom, to keep the ends securely in without having to drive the eye bolt through. This also helps keep the edges from fraying.

Diana

i found a way to improve the design slightly:

i incorporated all of the ideas from above (thanks you all!!!). for the double-nut w/ split ring technique that peter described, i used a cap nut for my second nut. i cut the bolt to fit in the cap nut (actually, about .5 mm shorter than that) and used a screw die to true up the theads. then i put the split ring on and the final cap nut never to come off again (i hope ).

the benifit of this is that there are *no* sharp edges and the bolt dosn't extend very far. yum!

peace,
jonathan

Tinker - I'd be very interested to hear how the cap nut works out. Most of the cap nuts I am familiar with use a poly-plastic ring to keep them from coming loose. This sounds like it would melt during use, allowing the nut to work free. I'd keep an eye on it, but if it works for you I think it might be something I adopt myself!

-p.

whoa, wait a minute...

split rings are bad news. i've seen many, many a warped keychain ring...

if you use split rings in your design, make sure you check your equipment very often, because when those start to give, your wick will fly right off. of course this also depends on the weight/size of your wicks. always check your equipment before you light up. always be safe...have a spotter...wet towels...fire extinguishers...respect fire...we can only pretend to control it for a while, but it still sometimes comes back and eats up cities.

Sorry. i always get preachy when it comes to fire safety. it's easy to underestimate the danger in fire spinning because not many people get hurt, but i've seen accidents and they are scary.

peax,

Skunk

I think Tinker meant "lock washer" when he said "split ring" and not "key ring." I've seen both key rings as well as non-welded chain fail (on friends gear) and know well enough not to use such items.

-p.

hey skunk, thanks for the concern. don't stop preaching! some people really need it. but in this case, i was just calling a specific type of lock washer a split ring because that is what it was called in the hardware store.

here's somthing i may experiment w/:

see, i have this 4incg wide kevlar. it's too big for poi, right? i mean, they don't make washers that big, right?

well, i found something that may be better. there is this type of 3" square metal plate with a semi-octagonal corrigation that may be better than a washer of comparable size. i'm not sure what it's called and they aren't made anymore. they were originally used for some type of roofing and apparently i have almost 100 of them in my attic... preliminary thoughts?

time to experiment...

lo all

i may have an answer for ya on this
if you are using a threaded solid eyebolt instead of using a nut and lock washers why not get some castleated nuts like the ones they use on car suspension (prolly some where around 1/2 in A/F and a lot more sizes avaliable) which use a split pin to lock it (only prob is the smaller ya go the steadyer hand ya need on the drill while handheld 'hobby drills' will work with these).

nothing to melt
extreamly secure
reuseable

i havent tryed this myself as i have just made a pair of training poi from 2 tennis balls and some string

phew i think that went OK for a first post for an exstream newbie (bout 6 hrs since i even picked up a pair )

eric: sounds like a good idea, but i'd be afraid that i'd snap the bolt (i'm using a 10-24) trying to drill it.

my cap nut thingy has been working very well so far. now if only the sampo ball bearing swivle clips i'm using didn't have sharp edges...

Tinker - It's nice to know I'm not the only one who upon encountering a new object thinks, "gee, I might be able to use that for poi."

But just remember, metal is heavy and gets hot when near fire. You really want to be using as little metal as possible on your wicks. I really think that 2" wick is about the biggest you can use for accordian-style wicks, and that 4" wick is really relegated to tube-core designs.

-p.

lo

tinker ya shouldnt worrie about snapping the bolt as you only need a hole big enough to fit a hair clip throu (thin wire type),its only to lock the nut not to take any strain to talk of as the threads will do this .
if your bolt is very thin you could get away with using lock wire throu the castlated nut instead (even smaller hole neaded)

As far as the 4" Kevlar goes...
I bought a buch of that with the intention of making some wider accordian wicks... however, I found that I didna' like the feel of them.

So, I folded the kevlar strips longways (so they were double thick and two inches wide) then did the cathedral fold. This resulted in 9" long, very dense and heavy wicks. They hold a great deal of fuel and burn for nearly ten minutes.

I likes 'dem a lot.

pj: yes! i'll use anything i can get my hands on! i've been everywhere from fishing/tackle stores to airplane part supply dealers. i'd use dog shit if i though it'd make the design better. point taken about th metal thing. i've decided against the 4" stuff as far as accordian folding goes. it really is too wide. i think i like the 2 and a half inch stuff the best. it's a tiny bit bulkier than the 2" but not too much so.. just personal preference i guess.

eric: thanks. i'm looking into the castled nuts.

twist: thanks for the idea!

I wonder where Pele's gone to? This is one of her pet topics... White school glue of the Elmers variety is non-toxic and hardens good and solid in the heat of flames. You can use it along the edges of the cut ends of your wicks to keep them from fraying. I fully credit Pele for this useful tidbit which came up in an earlier post.