A History of the Fire Arts

Thanks for the explanation mr historian. I can see that I got confused when I assumed you were a serious historian. Someone prepared to do at least some research, and examine the facts objectively. What you propose is a “romanticised” history, like Mills and Boon publish.

*sticks his hand up in the hope that Mr Historian shall return*

erm.. just a few things I have to say:
That was a long reply. I dont usually read the long posts on HOP because I get bored. Your reply was good and kept me reading.

1) "Is this considered acceptable behavior, in regards to how one MEMBER can treat another MEMBER at this web site?" - Robert Heart is NOT a member here. If he is then he has never posted.

2) I have never met Robert Heart. I have however met the people who speak of him in such an ill wind. These people I know, wouldnt not speak ill of someone, unless the person of who they speak actually is a twat. Some of these people who are speaking ill of Mr. Heart are some of the greatest people I have met, but it still does make me feel a bit and when I read them talking so negativly about someone. But if this is the case, and one that everyone agrees on, as much as I may not like it, it may just actually be true.

3) The idea that Mr. Heart has disappeared after reading thigns about him on HOP came into my head too. I really hope this is not the case.

4) "Mr." Glass is one of the people who I speak of in point 2. *Drew- ego boost coming up * He is greatly respected in the London juggling community, as well as the global community of spinners and jugglers. Although I did think that his last post was out of character and much angrier than usual. HOWEVER, Glass is NOT the type of person to post something like that without having a solid reason, and evidence for the line he takes.

So before you jump to the same line of thinking about the people who think the same about Mr. Heart, try seeing it from their perspective, and forgetting you know the brother of the subject

These are all words. I still don't see any proof.

Plus, internet communities go on trust. I trust glass, and bluecat, and not just any old newbie messiah that turns up. And yes, I can let them influence my opinions because I trust them! Wooo!

Why you want mr Heart to be a god of staffing I don't know, but MY lineage is completely distinct from his, so I have no real interest apart from for comedy value.

I can't wait till RHTV comes along! That's be such fun!

Good points UCOF.

mr historian please stop attacking glass. glass called you out, and offered you historic documentation, which you spurned. The more you attack others the less credible you sound. What really surprises me though, is that you think you are a writer yawn

So is this famous book of yours an autobiography or a biography ???????

short reply:

UCOF: HOTFA is talking about glass's comment to him, not about RH.

I, and Several of the people on this sitehave met Robert Heart. how is a relating of a happening i experienced hearsay? I am a very calm and mild mannered person. things that make me angry stick in my mind very clearly, and i could relate to you the exact words of several of my and robert hearts conversation (near photographic memory helps, on occasion)

HOTFA: glass only posted those links so that discussion about RH could move to them, and not be in this thread. obviously this has failed, but that is common useage on this forum.

I did, in fact, invite RH to reply to the thread, before it got beyond reproach. i absolutely refuse to believe that he would disappear solely based on the opinions of a few hippies. he could have taken issue with any of the posts on it, you're right, but the robert heart i met is of stronger character than you give him credit for. my opinion (based on your dates) is that he disappeared before the thread was initiated, and has never read it. out of respect for the disappeared i would like them to be deleted. and if he returns(which i sincerely hope he will) i will go and ask him straight up why he did/said the things he did to me, my colleagues and friends.


as an aside about HOP: this is one of the friendliest sites i have EVER encountered, and the only thing people don't have time for is ego-trippers. you are unfortunate to have brought up/encountered one of the few threads that are erally quite unpleasant. I don't think you are helping it by appearing to be a robert heart evangelist and accusing us all(all 30,000 of us?) of being intolerant and unhelpful. I will admit that Glasses attack on you surprised me somewhat, but if it upsets you so, then report it to the moderators. that is what the triange button at the bottom of the post is for. I imagine that no-one else has, because although perhaps a little too much, everyone is wary of your attitude and actions so far and wanted to see how you would react, not because all agree with the post.

meg, unfortuantely for your linege i did actually learn some things from RH in Svendborg. and have passed them on to you

incidentally; i have 'accreditations' too: my name has been in several newspapers, and my CV is good enough for the UK government to pay me to go and study in Australia for a while this winter. Many people who don't know me think highly of me, including some who might be considered famous. None of these people actually know me, or have any reason not to think the sun shines out of my arse. in private, i could be an absolute arsehole, but to them i always present an approachable and affable side of me. that doesn't mean i'm not an arsehole. until you have met me, and spent time with me, please don't judge me either way. i trust i will do the same for you. and i ask you to do the same for robert heart and treat this discussion a lot more objectively rather than jumping in on the side of someone whom many people on this site HAVE met and been treated badly by. By that, i mean, please don't dangle carrots in front of us then withdraw them by saying RH hasn't given you permission to. You certainly won't win anyone over like that. If we could see some of his acheivements and positive aspects, we'd be a lot happier repenting and removing our 'attacks'

Rob

"I was fire dancing in the early 1980's. Its where my journey began... i dont make such brave claims as mister Heart though (and doubt im any where near as good) I did pass through Australia on my way home tho but dont profess to be the "person who brough fire to NZ" because I wasnt. * It was my grandfather * he use to make our staves And he was white, dose that count :P

A friend's grandmother was teaching fire poi and performing in the 1950's throughout NZ, America and around the globe. Unfortunately i doubt she's white enough to help you or myself either as we are all proud brown Maori."

look, above is the main point. which has been missed, apparently.

R.H. isn't the man you're looking for. ok, so he's done a lot, and you go right ahead and make a website, maybe people will respect him more if it's so important to you. but if you try to play him off as the father of this art just because he told you so... in the face of testimony otherwise, then you are going to have many more attacks on your credibility. and writing a book, and publishing it, isn't slander but is another kind of lying. that is what i mean by scandal or publicity stunt. there's a list of people in front of you and you choose the one with the most scandal involved!

your tone seems justifyably appalled but levelheaded, until you get to the part where you are going to make a R.H. website! and then again your threats to leave don't really strike me as productive or mature either.

second point here... glass is appalled and so are you... how about some maturity SOMEWHERE here? those were some pretty blaringly obvious misspellings, and your actions COULD BE CONSTRUED as fallacious.

UCOF - Not an "active" member:
http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/showmembers.php

I'm interested by Stones last comment
Watches and waits

Right this has all gotten a bit silly.

The fact that the HOP world is even aware of mr heart is my fault and I am truly sorry that it has all come down to this, both for the disapearnce of Mr. Heart if it is even related. And mostly to the fact that this insane thread exists. And mostly for the fact that my good friend was driven to write an angry post, something which he has counselled me against many times.

So here is why I started this whole crazy thing and I hope that someday this will all just fade away

I along with several others met Mr. Heart at the EJC 2003 Svendborg.

I grew up (juggling wise) in the London juggling community, which seems to be very well respected around the world. Through that community I have met many many beautiful people. People who could do amazing things that no one else in the world can do. This trend continued as i went to the EJC where I met even more beautfiul people who could do even more amazing things. These are truly amazing things that only a handful of people in the world can do.

and not one of them was arrogant, except for one notable exception.

In the juggling and spinning community at large there is only one unwriten rule, though shall not big thyself up. Everyone I've met is aware that no matter how good they are no matter what they've done whether it's juggling insane siteswaps, or inventing new classes of moves they are not arrogant.

They might get a bit excited and run around showing everyone their new discovery but their past accomplishments no matter how great, and there were a great many ground breakers at that convention. Led them to behave in a manner like Mr. Heart

And my friends and I didn't react well to his personality type and we would sit around and bitch about him (not something I'm proud of) but every other day we would stop ourselves and say no this man is a human being no one deserves to have people talk about him and then he would go and do something even more outrageous and the whole cycle would start again.

My own screen name comes from the renegade piss take act the we did after he was heard to comment that his spinning style was approved by twenty of the worlds top martial artists. Even if it is true then loudly declaming it and struting like a chicken is not the right way to get across this intersting fact about yourself.

If the historian of the fire arts is making a court case out of this then Mr. hearts crime was arrogance the one unforgivable thing in the juggilng community. And if that doesn't stand up in court well this is the internet.

That's why I posted up his web adress, and many of the things posted were just reactions to the tone of his website which continued his theme of arrogance which as we've noted people don't take well to.

And if you do post his website with all the great things he does then great it'll be a good resource but I don't care if he was single handedly responsible for the invetion of fire itself NOTHING that he could have done would make his behaviour acceptable
(he was also mean to several friends of mine but that's beside the point)

right that was very rambely post but there it is, the more i reread it the more wound up i get and add more (I feel like kicking a chair over now)

this whole thread sickens me

"UCOF: HOTFA is talking about glass's comment to him, not about RH." I know

Drew: What am Isupposed to do with that link? I tried looking for names like RobertHeart, but nothing there was.

"I have way too much to do for the next couple of months to have any desire to address the tantrums that will soon follow after the posting of this letter." - HOTFA. [censored]. You cant just post something like that then run away!

I've found Robert Heart, can I have 500 please? He is pretending to be "historian of fire arts" to promote discussion about himself on HOP.

This is just my opinion and is therefore clearly wrong, no one could have that big an ego surely?

This is not intended to upset anyone. Sorry. But it does look like it...

*had inclings of the same*

sorry UCOF:
thats the bloomin search function not giving me the address of the page I was looking at, try this instead:
this is what I meant to post -
http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...hat=showmembers

you have valid points historian, i would really like to defend your stance,
if only that you would please try not to make it so hard for me to do so.
please, i'd love to hear about how you are going about exploring the flamey past but by reasserting your importance and stature in every post it emphasises how you have need to justify yourself. It's ok to be you.
together we can transcend the mire of personal attacks on spellling and armchair legal threats, and take this gathering of fire afficionados in the right direction!



I would love to know more about how twirling as an art form arrived where it did before it was influenced (as i see it) by such pioneers as glass, the te pooka gang, meg and the amazing! rubber heart duo! <--- note the double apostrophes.

bender: I like yoo!

Plus MY "lineage" is still clean, no matter what you say blue.

Okay, so I just like saying lineage a lot...

meg, sometimes people that we don't like will teach us as much about ourselves as people whom we do.
This thread is a perfect example - historian has taught me much about my sense of cyber-hospitality. or lack of.
:offers tea and scones:

something i hadn't thought of: interestingly enough, this thread began just about the time a couple of Tribe.net threads ended regarding firespinning and the SCA. they revolved around historical proof... coincidence?

HISTORIAN: if you're a SCAdian, like myself, and are looking for historical documentation tied to these tribe threads, at least have the guts to come out and say it. there's no shame in it. there is certainly no need to fabricate a background to make yourself seem legitimate. there is legitimacy in simply asking for the information you seek.

"drew is the most anal person as far as spelling and punctuation go like in the history of the world"




Thank god.