Fuel names

hi
does anybody know what white fuel or napatha is called in australia

check this page out http://members.iinet.net.au/~mbuckler/fuel/index.shtml
depends on what you're wanting it for but if it's normal spinning just use kero (kerosene)

shellite
mobilite
shell and mobil are both chain petrol (gas for americans)stations
i know were to get shellite
but were would i get white gas
and i am guessing that i can get mobilite from the local mobil
thanks

you could also try local hardware stores, oh & that info I found on google in 2 mins. Good luck

Fire spinner, Shellite is as close to white gas as you will get in oz. They are much the same anyhow, basically ULPetrol without the additives, and are not recommended for most fiery things. Most people use Kero, Firewater, Shellsol, or D 60.

(edit - D 60 is mostly petroleum naphtha, and a more like petrol than shellsol which is a isoparaffin)

For more info check out these links:


Shell isoparaffins

The Fuel Name FAQ

I use Colemans fuel, can't stand smell of Kero & Citronella, some fire safety guides don't recomend it but it works for me.

.

If your in Melbourne there's a place there called Juggle Art. One of my all time favourite shop's. They have a fuel called Fire Water. It's not the cheapest but has low smoke and virtually no odder. It's the only fuel I use now.

I aggree with Blayzen, Firewater is one of the best fuels around for twirling... I've also used shellsol and that works a treat... As for the white gas or naptha, Aussie Disposals sell it as Colemans or Shellite so maybe look there... Though I wouldn't recommend it in it's pure state for twirling... Alot of people recommend mixing it...

Hi Stone,
I may have misread your post, but if you are saying d60 is more like petrol than shellsol, um, sorry, that's not right.
I'm reading an MSDS for it, which states that d60 is one of the group of paraffins marketed by Shell as Shellsols. (Which just means solvents sold by Shell!)

With a flash point of 66 degrees, (about 15 degrees higher than the fuels sold in juggle shops) d60 is so not-explosive it is not even classified as a dangerous material (in therms of transproting). Which of course makes it very different to petrol, 'white gas' or any of the other highly explosive low flash point fuels. Though it is still classified as hazardous in terms of eg sticking it your mouth..

Other varieties of shellsol include d70 and ShellsholT (also called KsolT) which used to be common, and marketed in various juggle/fireshops. It is not sold now in Austrlalia. THat's why a lot of us have gone to d60.

ALL the things we burn (unless yr a seriously vegan hippy burning vegetable oil!) come under the very wide classification "petroleum hydrocarbons".. or 'the very very many things you get when you refine oil'
Hope that helps

Dunno newgabe, I’ll check it out. The can of D60 that I got the info off says 100% petroleum naphtha (not kero). Someone at work also said that the 60 represents the boiling point. Will get back l8r, cheers

What Shell market as Shellsol D60 can be described as a paraffin, a naphtha, a paraffinic naphtha, a hydrocarbon, etcetc... These terms overlap, and they are all correct.

Definition of naphtha:

1. Any of several highly volatile, flammable liquid mixtures of hydrocarbons distilled from petroleum, coal tar, and natural gas and used as fuel, as solvents, and in making various chemicals.

To learn more:
read this

Once upon a time ALL petroleum products used to be called Naphtha.. hence we have a chap asking for 'white gas or naphtha' and someone else saying 'd60 is naptha like petrol..." Well, it is a naphtha.
For our purposes (how fast you want a fuel to catch fire/explode) petrol and d60 are opposite ends of the spectrum. But in terms of all the chemicals in the world, they are quite similar (as opposed to, say, volcanic lava and milk)

According to the MSDS, 66° is the flash point of d60. Boiling point is 187-210 C°.
Autoignition is 225°
Specific gravity is .78

Thanks Pyroptix!
http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=429087

From shells site:

The number behind the D-grade indicates the minimum flash point in degrees centigrade

SHELLSOL D60

SHELLSOL D60 is derived from selected petroleum feedstocks which have been highly refined and reacted with hydrogen to convert aromatics to cycloparaffins. This deep hydrogenation results in products of controlled composition with very low aromatic contents, negligible reactive impurities and a low, sweet odour. SHELLSOL D60 consists predominantly of C10-C12 paraffins and naphthenics.

SHELLSOL DSC

In the range of aliphatics, SHELLSOL DSC is a narrow cut hydrocarbon solvent manufactured specifically to combine a flash point >61°C (>142°F) with fast drying characteristics. It has undergone a high degree of general refining that results in a low level of impurities such as sulphur, olefins and aromatics and also leads to a high stability and a low odour. Despite the faster evaporation, with a flash point >61°C, for transport SHELLSOL DSC generally may be classified as combustible rather than as flammable liquid.

SHELLSOL D70

In the range of aliphatics, SHELLSOL D70 is a slower evaporating hydrocarbon solvent. It has undergone a high degree of general refining that results in a low level of impurities such as sulphur, olefins and aromatics and also leads to a high stability

anyone see anything on the MSDS's why D70 or DSC couldn't be used?

D70 is used.
It was what they burned at Common Ground and I am about to go outside and have a spin with it right now!

The MSDS I have includes both d60 and d70. d60 flashpoint is 66° and d70's is something like 72°. Negligible difference. I was at the fuel wholesalers (GSB) just yesterday and talked about all this with them. They only had one drum of d60 to hand so they gave me some d70 as well. Nice helpful folks they are, they are quite tickled to chat with firespinning mummies, makes a change from truckies!

Good spot newgabe. I think me chemist mate must have meant flashpoint with the D numbers. I’ll ask him about napthas and paraffins.

With a flashpoint of around 60 deg. C Shell D 60 is nowhere near as volatile as petrol or Shellite (flash points around minus 40 deg C ). Though, there must be some differences because D 60 seems the choice over Shellsol TK. I can get some D 120, so I’ll look it up and perhaps give it a whirl.

and paraffinic naphthas...

One thing I have found in practice is that the higher flashpoint fuels seem to have been a bit harder on my grass.. dunno if they're a little greasier/harder to evaporate.. and can be a littel harder to light, specially the first light of the night..after that it seems to get easier...

One thing I got asked last night and was unsure about:
IS it ok to use turps? (i.e turpentine paint thinner) Is it actually just paraffin based or are there even more nasty dangerous elements to it?

No,it isn't a good idea to use turps.

This has been discussed in eg this, and other threads previously.
Good idea to search the forums, cos often there has already been an answer. Otherwsie someone might poke you for being angelic but lazy

Learn to look up the MSDS (material safety data sheet) of substances on the internet; Eg you will find the flashpoint of turps is 30°. That is not as low as what some people use (eg the very volatile white gas) but obviously below what a lot of us are tending to (the higher flashpoint odourless fuels.) Becasue they are generally sold as industrial solvents ( unless you have a juggle shop around that repackages and resells them), you might have to buy a drum. then you can do your mates a favour and sell it on cheap to them.

The other point is toxicity, and this is what is discussed in the link above.

Hello, i always feel out of place in the tech forums, but bear with me...

So, I'm bumping this cuz it has nice info on D70 which has been very helpful in my plight.

However, what i'd like to know is has anyone tried using D70 for tracing/eating? If so, how did it go? would you recomend it? does it do trails with the tracing?

(more interested in tracing at the moment, eating's still a bit scary, i like my teeth too much, but i'd like to know out of curiosity anyways)

its called firesol or firelite.if your in queensland you can get it at gooble warming or down at the goldie at palm beach there is a twirling shop there

For the reference of future searchers for fuel names, I stumbled across this page which has some fuels that are not mentioned on the the article at the top of this thread.

http://web.mit.edu/mitoc/www/activities/hiking/fuel.html

I might add that Shellsol D60 has been compared to "Fire Water"

They's is the same thing...

Speaking of uel names. I'm after some denatured alcohol or pure methylated spirit (UK) anyone know the best place? mostly as I'm doing the old coloured flames, wondered if minralised meths woould effect colour due to minerals.

i know around here most hardware stores have the denatured alcohol near the paint thinners and such.

No, they generally is not. d60, isopar G etc are names given by refiners/chemical wholesalers for industrial solvent/lubricants used in eg the printing industry. Here in Bris many of us have been buying directly from the chemical bulk suppliers for years, and find that different chemicals which are potential fire fuels are available at different times. Isopar G, the fuel I have been buying lately (in preference to d60) is used to lubricate sheet steel. It currently sells for about $85 for a 20 litre drum and is very clean.

'Firewater', 'Firesol' etc are brand names used by juggling shops who buy these sorts of chemicals in bulk, repackage and market them to firetwirlers. Those shops may or may not use d60- but usually they do not. Sometimes I call the local juggling shops and ask them what they are currently repackaging. It has only rarely been d60, which has a slightly higher flash point and therefore is slighty harder to set alight, is smokier and slightly smellier than the fuels (often Isopar G or H; previously KsolT etc) that are sold as Firewater or Firesol. Some people prefer d60 as it is not as 'flashy'- not as bright a flame, but also noticeably cooler-- this is useful practicing new stuff, also for contact staffers/ people with large wicks.

Well, that is a list, but does not add much to the discussion on fire fuels.
THe Australian varieties listed are:
Kerosene | Petrol | Shellite | methylated spirits|, of which kerosene is the only vaguely useful one, and it is disgusting- which is why nearly everyone uses d60, Firewater etc.

Does anyone use any of the BP products? I am looking around for options, but I can only find MSDS for those is Aus and do not know how they compare to Shell/Engen in RSA.

I have looked at the solvents, but am not really sure what would work. Currently I use paraffin, which I think you call Kerosene, yeah? Am looking for something with less residue.

Hi aston...your best bet is to contact the head office ( in SA ) via email and say you're looking for the SA equivalent of fuels you see mentioned here.

I did this with D60, only to find it's sold as something completely different locally and I'm planning on doing the same with Isopar G.

Pretty hard to beat white gas though...

Thanks for the idea. Will see what I can shake loose.

Back to the maze that is the BP website. :\

See, even white gas is different. It seems to be called Benzine here, which is apparently carcinogenic everywhere else.

ShellSol of some sort seems likely. Depends on if the local station has it or can get it.

Isopar is Exxon, which we do not have.

Hi Aston. For finding equivalents, don't worry too much about the name. Talk to your supplier and read their MSDSs for the flash point of various industrial solvents (which will give you an idea of the volatilty/explosiveness). They will know about odourlessness. Talk to a steel fabricator or printer about what they use for lubricants.... that will give yo a clue too as it is the primary use of them.

Benzene is a common petrochemical, but maybe you are thinking of Butane? which is a common name for white gas.

Aaaaah... the White Gas/Colemans/Shellite is Great but More Dangerous (cos it leaves wicks very clean but is more hot,volatile and explosive etc) discussion again. THis has been going on forever!

I found it more time efficient to just email the customer service department directly. So Isopar is Exxon, and if Exxon isn't active as Exxon in SA then they probably own another SA company and do business under that name,

For instance, Exxon does business under the name Imperial oil ( Esso ) here in Canada so I'm a emailing Esso Canada to see what they sell Isopar G as in this neck of the woods.

Chances are you're going to have to go to a wholesaler or bulk supplier, if I want D60 ( Called Vansol 60 locally ) I have a minimum 16kg bucket that I can buy + shipping, because I live on an island. there's nowhere I can just drive to to pick some up.

White gas *shouldn't* be called benzine, seeing as how benzine is a specific chemical, more properly it's called naptha which isn't to say it doesn't have benzine ( along with all sorts of other nasty stuff ) in it.

Butane isn't white gas, butane is a gas at room temperature and 1 atmosphere pressure ( like propane )so it wouldn't work as a spinning fuel unless you're into really big fireballs

Thanks for that Stout, I had wondered. Butane (sold in tanks) is often used as a fuel for camping stoves here hence my confusion.

White gas is apparently sold here (Oz) as shellite. SOmetimes I have known people to mix it with other fuels for extra buzz and it was dang hot for the staffers.

I've heard all sorts of "explanations" as to what white gas is and my all time favourite was this guy insisting that it was a completely non-toxic vegetable product.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

It is an excellent fuel but only if you're willing to manage the risks. I'm kins of paranoid myself, so I've never had an accident but I have seen the "burning handles" accident quite a few times due to general sloppiness when it comes to fueling up.

If you get kerosene ( paraffin ) on your poi handles it's still reasonably safe to light up an have your spin. With white gas, however you HAVE to let it dry ( usually a couple of minutes ) otherwise....remember that deleted thread..."another preventable white gas accident" ?

True it can be mixed with other aliphatic compounds, but why bother ? You can get a little extra buzz but the benefits are minimal.

The main reasons we use it are 1) it doesn't stink like a toxic petrochemical soup and 2) it doesn't leave a residue on the ground, which would definitely annoy some of the repeat venues ( hotels, restaurants ) that offer our services to their clients as an extra for their event. Most often we end up spinning on "sensitive" areas, like the pristine lawn,or the feature patio and if those areas reeked of kerosene and had a slippery residue the next day, we figure the proprietors wouldn't be so eager to call us back.

White gas isn't something you want to spill on grass though. If you were to spill it, and it soaked into the ground, it has a half life measured in the hundreds of years and the only way to clean up the spill is to dig up the dirt, burn it and replace it,,,much like the soil remediation done on former gas ( petrol ) station sites.

Long chain aliphatics ( like kerosene, lamp oil ) OTOH tend to biodegrade much more quickly. This is all a function of bacterial decomposition and is directly related to the amount of chemicals that are toxic on a cellular level ( eg benzine ) present in the different fuels. White gas has some of these chemicals, kerosene, relatively little.

So an important question to ask is "what do you want from a fuel?" and also take into consideration how often you burn. If you're one of these 10 burns/night 6 nights/week types, you'll probably live longer with a less toxic fuel. After all, you are breathing this stuff in raw no matter how well you spin off and that residue on the ground after a few spins with kerosene only reinforces this idea.

The solvents are confusing. What, exactly is in Isopar G and D60 ? the chemical makeup of these compounds isn't listed in the MSDS because these products are defined by their physical characteristics rather than anything else. Getting to the heart of this matter ( if your interested ) is best done by establishing an email relationship with an engineer at whatever refinery you get these products from.

Heck...I emailed Coleman's about the makeup of white gas and they replied with " we don't actually know" if it's got a certain viscosity, flashpoint, volatility...then it's white gas ( originally developed as a motor fuel FYI )

From my own reading, I was lead to understand that white gas is petrol with no additives. No idea how accurate this is though.

Well, what's an additive ? That stuff that keeps your fuel injectors clean ? But, yea, it's pretty much the same thing as petrol.

Lamp oil is kerosene with additives to make it smell, and smoke less.

Thanks heaps for your contributions to these topic/knowledge, Stout.

You're most welcome

Fantastic thread guys, nothing to input but plenty to read

OK. General question.

What sort of flashpoints are you looking for?

I am having a nightmare and could really do with some help. I am trying to purchase Kerosene/Paraffin in Hong Kong. Unfortunately not only am I having problems with the language but the only word for it is (sounds like) four soy. Also I can't read the labels.

What I have almost and have been sold is a totally different product, like turpentine, white spirit, needless to say it's a bit dangerous.

Some one please throw me a line and guide me in the right direction, perhaps how its written, pronounce etc.

Thank you so much in advance

L xx

We bought fuel in Hong Kong that was fine. It's basically lamp oil but is sold as Prayer Lamp Oil and can be bought form most shops that sell prayer lamps/buddah's etc...
Hope that helps!

In Hong Kong I used to buy some from a hardware store on Ashley Rd, Tsim sha tsui (next to Ebeneezers. Towards the no thru end of the road, across the road from gaylord Indian restaurant)

The fuel was like kerosene, although burnt a little hotter. The guys at the shop had some idea what i was using it for, even tho they didnt have great english (or rather i didnt have great cantonese).
They also let me burn a little to see the flame. Oh and dont worry, they sell it in old beer bottles

Good luck!

is anyone able to put up a list of the aus fuels MSDS's, i think ive sourced kerro and enough info for D60, but shellite, citronella, and gabe the closest fuel name/msds for Isopar G...??

what about charcoal starter fluid? it has a good burn time and nice bright flames and doesnt have much smoke or smell

If someone could update the fuel list with the following note for Mexico: Gasolina Blanca is not a substitute for Coleman fuel; its burn time is about half of Coleman fuel. I found mixing half Petroleo (Kerosene) and half Gasolina Blanca yielded Coleman fuel length poi spins, with only modest smoke.