Negative space and framing

Basically is this thread about moves which use negative space?

(in which case i feel justified in posting about other ways of making negative space)

or is this a thread about moves where you 'make a hole then put something through it' which have been arbritrarily named "negative space moves"

(in which case i'll shut up and bugger off, but complain loudly about how crap the name is)

sorry - having a bad day

so less of the wanky sematics and lets make with the moves already

it was originally your second description, but seems to have become the first.

oh well.

ho de hum.

Hugdoofhug for cole.

pm me if ya need to, but i'm off to a gig in an hour.

should we rename part two as framing? off to change first post.

love
R

my point (which I purposefully obfuscated to enhance the point since the point was about obfuscation thru the use of misleading terminology) is that calling it negative space, while sort of more or less correct in an indirect way, is unduely complicated because the whole concept is much clearer if you don't go thru the whole process of invoking negative space and mearly say the "move is framed" (three words could have described it more effectivly than this entire thread has), which does not require anyone to guess what object is being subtracted and which part of the negative space remaining you are using. Calling it negative space is clearing confusing since it took many of us a while to get up to speed as to what was being talked about here when the concept was really pretty simple

And I am objecting from an artistic viewpoint here, not a physics one. Physicists couldn't care less about artistic definitions of negative space - the physics ones are far more profound.

But whatever, its called negative space now, and I finally know what it means and am only being this way because it could have been clearer much sooner and besides is kind of fun to stir you all up without really pissing you off, so

What about dynamic framing?

Just to confuse things more.

i have a (dynamic ) framing\NS move. You can call it a straitjacket 360 carry or a DP or whatever you like

start from follow time wallplane reels (anticlockwise)

as the left poi starts its upswing and the right poi starts its downswing (both in front of you) start to smoothly cross your wrists. This should feel like a stall with the right poi, and an upward stall with the left, though the poi should keep spinning anticlockwise and not stall completely.

bring the left poi up through the space between the right arm and your chest
let the right poi drop through the space between the left arm and your chest

As you do this - turn right 90* bringing your right elbow up and left elbow down so they make a vertical line.
left poi is pointing up, right poi pointing down

Then turn another 90* right bringing your elbows flat again
left poi is pointing right, right poi pointing left

Turn another 90* right bringing your left elbow up and right elbow down so they make a vertical line.
left poi pointing down, right poi pointing up

Now turn the final 90* as the left poi starts its upswing and the right starts its downswing. Slowly and gracefully extract the poi from the spaces between your arms and the body.
(the space itself disappears as you remove the poi from it. which is quite nice.)

You are left back in follow time wallplane reels (anticlockwise)

Note - This move creates a negative space, but an observer in front or behind you wouldn't see it. An observer to your left or right would.
i can do this move, given lots of attempts. and as long as you don't mind it being really messy.
it's my favourite move involving putting things through holes and i put it here as an apology for being mean to cole and rob when they were just trying to give people ideas

*enter contact juggler who talks alot about negative space*

its not framing, its negative space you can frame without useing negative space.
check out a dancer called skywalker he's a random dancer on a detours video

thats true ucof,

it also holds true for the space inside an object.

so in theory (read: in my head)

the frame is positive space.

outside is unframed negative space

inside is framed negative space

this can vary with partial frames and dynamic frames

somebody shut me up if im getting this all wrong.

You forgot to say Weasel:

"A contact juggler to talks alot about negative space, and WHO IS AN ARTIST"



So im guessing you may well know the answer.

i do

Ado-p-p-p-p-p-p-p: apparently the space inside an object is NOT negative space.

Im only relaying messages here.

Oh..and the space between two objects is also negative space.

so the space inside a circle is not negative space?

now im confused.

i wish to learn but my brain hurts.

i shall say no more

negative space is two dimensional

otherwise it's just a hole

ado-p: everything you said is correct

Can somebody give me a practical application of negative space?

Or.

Do we agree that the concept of 'negative space' could be expressed in other ways involving positive space?

1- someone agreed with me

2- we seemed to be progressing forward in the area of moves involving framed space of some kind whihc may be postive, negative, neutral, or unframed in its frameness.. then we went back on semantical arguments..

I move that we call them 'framed' in the sense that you are creating a framed enclosure.. whether or not this aligns with artistic definition, even though it was somewhat kinda sort of realted to the inspiration.. and though we are artists, this is poi, not a renassaince.. we can name things as we like. I'm not saying we can't refer to moving through 'negative space', just that we simplify the procedure for arguments sake to 'framed moves'.. since any move technically through negative space, I feel (and this is just me) that simply refering to this genre as negatvie space moves is misleading..

can I get a second? if so, then let the semantics drop and the move discussion flourish ..