The swastica good or evil?

It occurred to me that recently there's been a successful reclaiming of another once-seen-as-fascist symbol ie extremely close shaven heads.

Certainly in the UK, till quite recently, a shaven head was seen as the mark of a thug, and, more specifically, the mark of a fascist, due to the 'skinhead' phenomena of the past.

Now it's totally acceptable, in part due to fashion and large numbers of top footballers adopting the cut.

This is good, firstly for all those people who like such a cut for it's own sake, who previously would have been subject to unjustified prejudice, secondly, because it now ceases to be an expression of racism even for those who would like to use it as such.

also due to alot of middle age balding businessmen, taking skinheads as it negates the need for a comb over or monk style hair do ! !

another symbol of the nazi's would have to be the hilter style moustache. thankfully thats still not fashionable - i dont care about the nazi link, but it simply looks stupid!!!

ironically, the only modern public figure i can think of that has a hilter moustache is Robert Mugabe...

I will say, and this is by no means defending him, that hitler did progress Germany a fair way after ww1. given that the country was some three trillion dollars in debt (dont quote me on that, i think i heard it somewhere), he fanned Germany into a country capable of sustaining a good half-decade of all out war. the economic progress that Hitler oversaw/helped with/whatever was amazing, considering that all of 20 years beforehand, money was virtually pointless. any economy with common million dollar notes needs a boost.

well, it helps when you can just wave your hand and make all that debt "dissapear", and then start spending a bunch of money that your economy doesn't really have and can only support for a decade or so, and even then only if you are invading and plundering the riches of other countries.

If Hitler had stuck to sustainable economics, he wouldn't have been able to do anything more than anyone else - and probably less since he was such a nut about always beleiving he was the only person who could do anything right.

Dentrassi, that is a really good point. My son is absolutely obsessed with WWII. He has books and magazines about it, etc.
He came out of the bathroom the other day and had put soap bubbles under his nose ala Hitler moustache and said "Look, I'm Hitler." It gave me such tight booty only because those things look so damn stupid! lol

please don't defend Hitler in any way until you've visited a concentration camp.

He deserves no defence on any subject.

It is merely stating a fact, the fact that pre hitler, germany as a nation couldnt afford a loaf of bread, and in around 20 years, germany had become a major player in the world economic stage.

nothing whatsoever to do with anything post-mein kampf.

Personally, i look at that stage of Germany's evolution/social status/time/whatever its actually supposed to be called, as two seperate, but interrelated times, pre- and post-mein kampf.

A lot of the stuff done pre-mein kampf wasnt that bad, and a whole lot of the stuff done post- was really really bad.

edited cos we're cool

I don't quite follow you.

Hitler was thrown in jail in November 1923, before which he can only be regarded as a demigouge for a small political party that had yet to gain any political footing. During his 9 months in prison, he writes "Mein Kampf".

in 1930, the Nazi party gets 18% of the vote - the first time they have political power to accomplish anything at all.

in 1932, Hitler runs for president and gets 30% of the vote, loosing to Paul von Hindenburg in a runoff. Hitler is appointed chancellor as a runner-up title and takes that office in 1933. in 1934, Hindenburg dies (coincidence?), and Hitler effectively takes power.

So, I'm wondering how Hitler managed to do anything for Germany before "Mein Kampf", when he didn't wield even a trivial amount of power before 1932 - 9 years after "Mein Kampf" was written?

Within 4 years of him becoming president, he "annexes" Austria and Sudetenland. By the end of the next year, WWII starts as he orders the invasion of poland. Within another 5 years, Germany is completely on the defensive with 3 fronts in Europe, and is utterly and completely crushed a year later - within 11 years of him coming to power.

I fail to see where 20 years of anything at all favorable for Germany came from thanks to Hitler.

At best the 3rd Reich had a handful of peaceful prosperous years (peaceful and prospeous for some, and a living nightmare for others that is), and that was only thanks to the calm before the storm.

His was a course to ruin from the beginning. Any short lived economic prosperity during the 3rd Reich was only an illusion based off a maniacs dream - a short-term loan from the castrophy to come. Nothing good about it, unless you consider selling your soul to the devil for a few easy bucks and a unrealistic dream of world domination to be "good".

very well informed, I am amazed, he was also pretty disappointed of not getting more than 50%(43,9) in the voting of 5. march 1933 so not the whole german people was following him later many were scared unfortunatly together with the DNVP another party they had 52%.That brought the stone to roll. He could decide now almost alone that was his goal now he started to eliminate all disturbing "things" and to built another strukture in germany. The Weimarer Republik(1919-1933) wasn't all bad (after Mein Kampf!) but people coudn't yet deal with democracy where from should they. But it was a beginnig just too instable because of several factors... Also a fact what made it easy for Hitler.
I talked about "Mein Kampf" because it was the most unreaded bestseller in that time if more people would have relly read ...
It was all predictable.
Of course people felt better but Hitler spend money he did not have and actually in my view it was part of the plan he needed people supporting him esspacially after the disappointment in 1933 he needed more german people.

Sorry a lot of spelling mistakes

the discussion over the nature of displaying a swastika is reminding me of another dispute here in the u.s., which is that over the confederate flag, those opposed say it is a symbol of slavery and injustice, those who support it say it is a symbol of southern culture, i just thought i would bring it up because the two disputes are very much linked

as for saying the swastika, and flags... are just pictures, yes taken comletely out of context they are, but in our society they have become symbols, and very powerful ones at that

i would not display a swastika or a confederate flag, (even though i know they do not nessasarily represent evil) simply as a way of respecting those who sufferend so much injustice at the hands of the people that used them

peace/fire
lyra

a confederate flag has a prominante "X" on it, and some stars. The Nazi flag happens to have a swastika.

I agree displaying the whole flag of either is in rather poor taste, but don't you think it would be ridiculous to ban "X"s or stars, or have to worry about those designs winding up on something as frivolous as a quilt design?

Yeah but still even a design like that makes me feel strange and I bet I am not the only one but banning it I dunno not the best solution, I only I just don't want to look at it ( I saw stupid, fortunatly, not too many people using it for their sh.. even nowadays, I was so often in the streets demonstrating against them having fights with them) and that doesen't mean I am not dealing with history, sorry I am pretty sensitive to that topic

yeah... the united states has had 140 years to get over the civil war, but people are still griping about the confederate flag!

hmm. im going to stay out of this one now, i just got shown up big time.

i heard that the VW symbol, when spun fast enough, looks like a swastika. does anyone know the truth behind that?

we have to remember that icons are just that........

CROSS - Many people assume that the cross is a Christian symbol. Christians have indeed adopted the cross but its origins date back long before the Messiah was ever born. The cross can be dated back to ancient Babylon and the worship of the sun-gods Mithra and Tammuz. In fact the cross was not used by Christians until the fourth century after Emperor Constantine (a pagan sun-worshipper) had a vision of the cross in front of the sun.

PETER'S CROSS - Satanists are not the brightest folks to begin with, but you would think they would check to see if a symbol already had a meaning before adopting it as their own. Satanist think if they invert a symbol, it will make it evil or if they spell something backwards it makes it cool. The fact is that this symbol has been known as Peter's Cross for the better part of two-thousand years. It is written and widely believed that Peter was crucified upside down by his own request.

ANKH - Also known as the Long Life Seal. While Christians try to say the ankh is not a cross, make no mistake about it, the ankh is indeed another rendering of a cross. This symbol originated in Egypt and symbolizes reincarnation. Egyptians were pagans and worshipped many gods like the sun-god Amen-Rah, and the pagan sun-trinity: Osiris, Isis and Horus. The ankh and the common cross were both used equally in ancient pagan sun-worship.

FISH SYMBOL - Also known as the Ichthys Symbol (Greek for fish). Another adaptation of a pagan symbol into Christianity. The fish was used worldwide as a religious symbol associated with the pagan "Great Mother Goddess." It was meant to represent the outline of her vulva. It is linked to the Age of Pisces and also has associations with the Hindu deity Vishnu but more so with Dagon the fish-god of the Philistines. The name Dagon is derived from dag which means fish. There have also been discoveries of the fish-god in sculptures found in Nineveh Assyria. Dagon is also found in the Scriptures (Judges 16:23-24; 1 Samuel 5:2-5).

TRIQUETRA SYMBOL - Another pagan symbol adopted by Christianity. This symbol used to symbolize the Christian trinity doctrine; the secretive sign of the Aquarian Conspirators; the symbol of the worshippers of the Black Madonna; the symbol plastered on the image of the face of holders of a coming, new universal smart card and we instantly recall that higher-level Masons worship a false god under the adulterous name, Jahbuhlun. The mark of Jahbuhlun is that of the Triquetra which is composed of three 6's, overlaid.

PROTECTION SYMBOL - Also known as the Ritual Circle. In the occult a circle always represents a boundary of power. If you see a symbol enclosed in a circle, more times than not it is a symbol of the occult. It is a common practice for those who claim to have outer body experiences to draw a circle around their bodies before leaving so that nothing else can enter it while they are away.

YIN-YANG SYMBOL - Together they are polar expressions of the martial art of t'ai-chi, and the eternal Tao in Chinese philosophy. Yin represents the moon, water and the earth. Yang represents the sun, fire and the heavens. More of the same song and dance but from another part of the world than the usual Babylonian paganism that we are so use to.

EARTH SYMBOL - Also appears as a Hopi medicine wheel and Norse sun symbol. This is the symbol for mother earth in pagan religions such as wicca and other forms of witchcraft. the four sections sometimes represent the four seasons: Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter or the four elements of the earth: Air, Fire, Water, and Earth. I have actually seen this symbol on the Calvary Chapel down the street from my house.

PEACE SYMBOL - Also known as the Cross of Nero. Many people are not aware of the origins of this symbol or how it became to symbolize peace. This is the cross of Nero, a broken and inverted cross, enclosed in a circle which represents Nero's vision. Nero believed that there would be world peace without Christianity, thousands of Christians were martyred under the rule of Nero. This is what the "peace symbol" represents regardless of what it means to you.

ANARCHY SYMBOL - Also known as the Circle-A. Many people do not give it much thought but the anarchy symbol is also of the occult. Enclosed in a circle is the letter A, which represents anarchy. Anarchy is the absence of all law and disobedience to any existing law. This is the nature of Satan our adversary who rebelled against our creator, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" is the one and law in the Satanic religion. When applied spiritually this doctrine is the doctrine of sin (I-John 3:4).

GAY SYMBOL - Also known as the Thaumaturgic Triangle. Ignorance is bliss amongst the homosexual community. The symbol they adopted to represent their sexual orientation has long been used by Satan worshippers to conjure demons from the bowels of hell. The triangle is used as a door and the circle as a boundary of power. Some Satanists admit doing away with the circle in hopes of being possessed.

PENTACLE - A real popular symbol used by many that dabble in the occult. Many pagans such as those who practice wicca and other forms of witchcraft wear the emblem as a pendant. Some even go as far as placing them in all the rooms of their homes, especially during pagan holy days such as: Christmas, Easter, Father's Day, Mother's Day, New Years Day, Thanksgiving Day, Valentine's Day, and last but not least, Halloween.

PENTAGRAM - Another rendering of the popular symbol, only inverted. Today, the pentagram may be even more common than the upright pentacle. Satanists, a more sinister breed of the underworld usually wear this symbol as a pendant or use this symbol in satanic rituals. It is found at many sites where sacrifices and other rituals have taken place. It is also found as art work on many Satanic heavy metal albums such as Slayer.

HEXAGRAM - Another star enclosed in a circle and another popular symbol used by those who practice various forms of witchcraft. This symbol is not as popular with Satanist and may even be used exclusively by those practicing other forms of the occult such as wicca and other forms of witchcraft. Some people confuse this symbol with the Magen David.

MAGEN DAVID - Also known as Solomon's Seal. This symbol used by rabbinic Jews is often confused with the hexagram by those not familiar with symbology but the Magen David lacks the all too familiar circle associated with most other popular occultic symbols. Magen is the Hebrew word for shield, this is why it is sometimes called the Shield of David. Legend has it that King David's shield was shaped as such. It is more likely to be associated to King Solomon than with King David as the symbol appears on the handle of King Solomon's Sword. I originally thought that this was a good thing, legitimizing this symbol in my mind and making it a good Jewish symbol. Then I read warnings about the Star of Kiyyan (also: Kijun, Kiyuhn, Rephan, Remphan, or Rhemphan) in Scripture (Amos 5:25-27 & Acts 7:43). I thought there would be no way the wise King Solomon could have taken up such a symbol for himself. Then I read about King Solomon's later years and how he was corrupted by his lust for woman, pagan woman, and how he gave into their practices. The fact is that there is no other star that the Jewish people are passionate about and leaves me with no other conclusion that this is the Star of Kiyyan!

remember that without the people who gave these icons their meanings they would remain marks on a page

Phire you beat me to it........i was going to post about the same thing (but ill admit you posted more than i would have)breat points............

Im curious why the swastica is so offensive, but a hammer and siccle or a five sided red star isn't.

I really think deep down, many people could care less thatstalin killed several times more people then hitler did. It's also interesting how it's an abhorable evil to be a neo nazi, but it's popular and trendy to be a communist.