5bt buzzsaw weave

I'm going to describe the isolated version as it's probably a bit easier to learn. Doing it unisolated is a bit trickier timing-wise.

I found it easier to learn in reverse by a fair way, once I had it backwards I could get the forwards one pretty quickly. If you're finding bits of this tricky try learning to do standard 5-beat weave without actually touching your arms at any point... i.e. the twisting hand curls around the other arm without making contact.

Start in reverse 5bt. On the right hand side your right arm would normally come under the left and twist around your left wrist... instead of twisting there it the poi should loop over your left arm and go in between your arms in the buzzsaw plane - so the poi head is coming towards your face.

As soon as it's in the buzzsaw plane the left poi follows it into the buzzsaw plane. To stop them wrapping around your arms/each other you need to do a barrel roll - basically rotate your arms around each other in the same direction as the poi. The timing here is the key to getting this move - you have to start the barrel roll pretty much as soon as the first poi has started doing the buzzsaw. You rotate each of your arms through 360 degrees and at the end of it you'll be on the left hand side with your right arm on top of the left... i.e. where you'd finish a normal reverse weave of any kind. Doing the barrel roll is the "untwist" part of a 5bt weave.

This is the isolated version... because your arms are never in contact the barrel roll part means the bit in the middle is an isolated buzzsaw (in fact each poi will almost be lying on the other arm at the start of it because your left hand is to the right of your right hand and vice versa). Non-isolated is just do standard wrist-touching 5bt and you have to either rotate your hands around each other instead of doing a barrel roll or have one hand sort of "jump" over the other arm... this is the notcoleman5 variant.

Forwards is pretty much the same - on the right hand side the right hand loops over the left so that poi comes up next to your face in a fowards isolated buzzsaw, roll your arms around each other forwards to exit on the left side.

To turn clockwise you need to start the turn when you're on the left side of your body (it's 5bt so you turn to the opposite side as your poi), go into the buzzsaw turning so that the barrel roll part is the middle of the turn - once you get it smooth its completely isolated throughout the turn and you can go straight back into this move.

Also while doing the barrel roll you can stop both arms, wrap and go back the other way... you can always do this with isolated buzzsaws.

*pauses for breath*

Ok, that's it. When it's smooth it looks gorgeous, a lovely corkscrew motion across your body. In fact, I'm sure you could keep it isolated all through the move... just need to get the start and end isolated.

There are other exits if you stop the barrel roll at the right point. Going backwards I can come out into a vertical airwrap (i.e. going right to left and looking left my right hand is at 12 and my left at 6 o'clock) and going forwards I can come out via a hyperloop under my arm - stop the barrel roll when your right hand is at 9 and your left at 3 o'clock again going R->L and looking left and the hyperloop goes under your left arm. Each of these should work going the other way, but it seems a lot harder... I think because they're inside->outside rather than outside->inside.

nice! I can do the three bt but not 5bt yet. Working on it tho. Thanks Spi!

ooooh nice!
can do the 3bt but i've not tried the 5bt yet.
does it look very nice? or just one of those things that is really hard but looks about average?

naaaah. it look great! esp when you get those isolations going as well.

one of my fav. moves combo is with 5 bt weave to other side, tthen weave isolation, to buzzsaw isolation in middle, weave isolation to other side, then 5bt weave across the body again.

looks uber tricky and uber trippy to audience!

awwwwwww now i'm going to go & practice this & not get to sleep for the next 30 mins til my arms are overworked & full of painful lactic acid.
heh, i love that lil guy

lol... I never learned the 3bt version.. guess at somepoint I should go back to basics..

Ðraghkyre - it looks lovely! Especially once you can turn around into and out of it

Rev - finally got the foward 3bt buzzsaw after learning this, it's definitely tricker IMO. Reverse still isn't there yet...

Yeah I got that a couple of times... hence saying the reverse is easier

But I definitely found the 3bt harder!

with the reverse its allright if i manage to successfull aim my poi into the gap between my arms without hitting my arms, which dosnt happen as much as it should. need to practise this more

isnt the 3bt just the switching of 1beat out of the buzzsaw weave? basically jsut changing the lead hand for the buzzsaw weave?

that much harder?!?

3bt buzzsaw weave (by hop's definition of beats - i.e. total beats before the pattern repeats) is very simple:

in the normal 3bt weave each arm spins 2 circles crossed over your body (e.g. right hand spins 2 circles on left hand side) and 1 circle on the arm's natural side (right arm spins 1 circle on right hand side).

in the 3bt buzzsaw weave, you replace the natural side circle with a buzzsaw circle.

the reason its slightly tricky is because there is an arm in the way when you want to spin the buzzsaw beat.

when teaching the forwards 3bt buzzsaw weave, i usually mention the phrase "over, under, through".


absolutely wicked description mr x, except the notcoleman5 is still not the one you describe above - its far easier than that.

there is only one buzzsaw beat on each side and it is before the crossover, not during it.

Just to get this straight in my head...

If i'm doing a normal 3 beat weave with added buzzsaw bits in the middle (in the way described above), is that a 5 bt buzzsaw weave? I had been assuming that was the 3 beat version and that 5 beat would be based on a 5 beat weave

I had always thought I understood these things fairly well too!!

i blame arashi

our man from austin counts buzzsaw weaves only by the number of beats spun outside the arms (i.e. don't count the buzzsaw beats).

i count them the same as any other poi pattern - number of beats spun before pattern repeats.


borris - if you learn the 3bt version i describe above, you will see the fundamental difference.
it feels much more like a regular 3bt weave and has 3 beats in it
the 5bt version spiralx has described here has 5bts in it and feels a bit like a half isloated 5bt weave.
spin a 5bt weave without your wrists touching and you should see why they're so similar - one crosses over outside the arms, the other inside.

hmmmm ok then so Mr Coleman, you say your three beat buzzsaw for RHand has 2 beats on the Left side, 1 beat in buzzsaw, while the LHand has 2 beats on right side, with 1 beat in buzzsaw. right?
Cause i was trying a 3 bt version & i managed to do a 3 bt buzzsaw, but with 2 beats in buzzsaw and 1 on the opposite side,
as opposed to 1 beat in buzzsaw, with 2 beats on oposite side.
so this means there's 2 different versions of the 3bt buzzsaw?

The bs weave i can do already has 3 beats on thr RHS, 2 beats in middle, 3 beats on LHS, 2 beats in middle. I suppose this is a 5 beat buzzsaw then, but a different version to the one spiralx explains above?

hope u understand all that !?!

i think the 5bt buzzsaw weave spiralx descibes above is the 3 bts outside 2bts inside version.

i haven't tried your version of the 3bt yet.
unless you are just spinning a regular buzzsaw with a beat outside every one in three, it sounds as if there are 2 versions...

will check it out and get back to you on monday

i know for a fact that there at least 2 versions of the 5 bt weave that include buzzsaw beats.

i think a defining point is the fact that the buzzsaw beats have to be spun around the other arm, otherwise you just be spinning a normal buzzsaw which you can obviously spin for as long as you like to add extra beats to any pattern.

my system isn;t as confusing, really... keep in mind i had to translate not just the beat count philosophy, but the naming as well, for me the notcoleman5 is a 5 beat non crossed inverted weave, simply a "buzzsaw inside of a 5 beat, still an inversion of course... the original (isolating) 5 beat inverted weave i posted in the inverted weaves thread was a 5 beat "crossed arm" inversion. but i _name_ them after the originating weave cause there are so many ways to add in beats before you repeat the pattern, especially when you add other techniques like isolations and insides, when you are spinning in more helical patterns... so i just go by the entrance... (but that is merely for reference and simplicity, of course you could count the beats before the pattern repeats and still be correct, it'll just have less clarity in this awful text based world unless you already know what we are tlaking about) moreso because the only time i would be caring about a name is in writing down choreography for shows and teaching, both of which you really just need to know what you were doing to get there. and the 4+ beats have different entrances than say, the three beat entrances, the chains are, relative to each other, positioned differently, and the techniques vary slightly.
still waiting for more of them to pop up here... come on guys, how about something new, not regurgitation? anybody solve my puzzle yet?[prod prod]

(okay i haven't done an 5 beat inverted weave in ages but i'll try)
coleman (hail oh quoteable one)

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think a defining point is the fact that the buzzsaw beats have to be spun around the other arm, otherwise you just be spinning a normal buzzsaw which you can obviously spin for as long as you like to add extra beats to any pattern.

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this is true, but you can spin the crossed arm isolated inversion for infinite beats too BTW. this is the key point in my choice of terminology, you see?

I'm blown away that some of you are only doing the 5 beat inverted weaves and not the three... much less teaching them as easier... that's like saying "i only spin and teach 7 beat weaves" don't you find 1/3 and 1/4 time isolations a bit harder to teach than straight up follow time with a slight isolation???