#316377 - 27/02/08 06:16 AM
Re: Perpetual Tangle Buzzsaw
[Re: Durbs]
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Tosser
Registered: 18/04/03
Loc: Herefordshire
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Written by: Durbs
an orbital tends to rely on the entry speed
You think? I thought orbitals (derived from glow sticking and now adopted by nick as super duper uber poopers or something) are tang;es, buzzsaw hyperloops that are then sharply tightened, causing a fast, tight spinning.. err, thingy.
So I wouldn't therefore agree with an orbital being passive. Have I misunderstood?
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#316380 - 27/02/08 10:41 AM
Re: Perpetual Tangle Buzzsaw
[Re: Mr_Chutney]
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Classically British
Registered: 23/09/01
Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England
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No, because eventually you'd run out of energy - it's just lengthening and shortening the chain to vary the speeds, it doesn't give add any energy into the move (well, maybe a slight bit) - but you couldn't do them indefinitely...
_________________________
Obey this man and thou shalt suffer no wrath. 
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#316381 - 27/02/08 11:34 AM
Re: Perpetual Tangle Buzzsaw
[Re: Durbs]
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It's a f*ckin' Ball, innit.
Registered: 31/08/04
Loc: Bristol
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with stretchy poi, you can. and I have.
Oh, and the thing in the first post, is not a hyperloop. It's a buzzsaw, where the poi are tangled, (so in this respect it is like a hyperloop) but the hands continue doing the split time buzzsaw isolation hand motions. or, tangled buzzsaw. I can't work out what makes it perpetual. your hands turning are still spinning the poi, which is what gives it propulsion, therefore the energy isn't being generated by itself, ergo, it is not perpetual motion. or have I completely mixed the word perpetual with something else?
_________________________
Elements of the past and the future, combining to make something not quite as good as either...
Step (To Bluecat): That's something I can imagine Ed doing, only cleaner and better.
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#316382 - 27/02/08 12:46 PM
Re: Perpetual Tangle Buzzsaw
[Re: Durbs]
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member
Registered: 17/10/07
Loc: louisianna, new orleans
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so this thread is about orbitals yeah u can keep em going on poi for alot longer than with glowsticks but i agree not forever unless some one can show me a vid where someone does a whole burn in orbital then i might but where would the fun be in that. orbitals are fun harder for me to exit from with poi.
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#316383 - 27/02/08 09:13 PM
Re: Perpetual Tangle Buzzsaw
[Re: poinoob]
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Classically British
Registered: 23/09/01
Loc: Guildford, Surrey, England
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Ed - I bet you didn't do it indefinitely - otherwise you wouldn't be able to type now  Poinoob - Er, no. But we'll let you off 'cos of your name
_________________________
Obey this man and thou shalt suffer no wrath.
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#316386 - 29/02/08 02:47 PM
Re: Perpetual Tangle Buzzsaw
[Re: Learning_To_Cook]
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member
Registered: 17/10/07
Loc: louisianna, new orleans
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so u get in a tangle and move ur hands and the poi in buzzsaw. can some one link me to a video of this being done???? great qoute by the way durbs
Edited by poinoob (29/02/08 02:49 PM)
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#316387 - 01/03/08 06:42 PM
Re: Perpetual Tangle Buzzsaw
[Re: poinoob]
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member
Registered: 07/03/02
Loc: Everywhere
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Written by: poinoob
so u get in a tangle and move ur hands and the poi in buzzsaw. can some one link me to a video of this being done???? great qoute by the way durbs
Can't link a vid, but this " perpetual tangled buzzsaw" sounds like driving a hyperloop as though you are repeating a barrel roll (1st degree same direction inversion). In other words, if you do a barrel roll and pull the hands apart just enough so that the poi tethers begin to touch, you can get a nexus that isn't a full-on tangle but is more just a point of contact. You can keep this going indefinitely just like you would a barrel roll. The further apart you pull your hands, the closer to a proper tangle you get, and the more you need to transition your driving method to Oli-ing.
Durbs:
As far as I can tell, if you time your slackening of the orbital to gain a little energy from gravity, then the net result with re-tensioning is that you can keep it going indefinitely. It's a bit like holding the middle ball on a set of astro jax and pulling one end at the right time to keep the other end spinning indefinitely.
-Alien Jon
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#316389 - 07/03/08 09:59 AM
Re: Perpetual Tangle Buzzsaw
[Re: jaiko]
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member
Registered: 17/10/07
Loc: louisianna, new orleans
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with further reasearch i have found a teaser from the encyl poi dia that had a clip of this move labled and it is indeed what a glowstringer call an airwrap orbital. dont flame me for the name thats just how i learned it in the circle i was in before i got addicted to fire. but the therory remains the same and the move a rose is a rose is a rose or in this case a tangle is a tangle
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#316390 - 07/03/08 04:08 PM
Re: Perpetual Tangle Buzzsaw
[Re: jaiko]
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member
Registered: 07/03/02
Loc: Everywhere
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Written by: jaiko
alienjohn: As far as I can tell, if you time your slackening of the orbital to gain a little energy from gravity, then the net result with re-tensioning is that you can keep it going indefinitely.
I would have to diagree with this point if the orbital is in split time (which it is) then there is a constant force for and against, with every action there is an equal an oppisite reaction. The down swinging poi is under the force of gravity, and at the same time the up swinging poi is under gravity constantly slowing as both motions are effected by the gravity. This would eventually led to the perpetual tangle no more. Though with the technique i've seen mat (sphericulism) use one can keep a tangle going but with a driving force behind it, perpetual is self generating (but will research) therefore the tangle is propelled not perpetual
I'm not saying that it is perpetual motion. I'm saying the driving force happens due to the tension and release... but upon further examination, when I do it as I slacken the nexus droops a little and as I tighten it rises, plus I seem to be adding a little forwards and backwards motion some times, so the net result is tiny lines or circles. So that seems like a much tinier version of what Matt does, which I think is Oli-ing. This seems in line with how we normally drive poi: with either an ever-so-tiny version of either an extension circle, isolation circle, or some linear motion. So it seems with the right combination of tension and release with the force of the poi and gravity, you can get the tangle oli-ing with very little circular hand motion. So yeah that is where I'm at with that now. 
-Alien Jon (no h needed)
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#316391 - 16/03/08 08:52 PM
Re: Perpetual Tangle Buzzsaw
[Re: AlienJon]
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no excuses. no apologies.
Registered: 04/01/05
Loc: aotearoa
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check out matts (the sphecular one) perpetual buzzsaw hyperloops, yo.
my understanding of orbitals are where the poi are right next to each other, spinning in a tangled fashion.
buzzsaw hyps are where they tangle and you have them in front of you, and then untangle them when they start to lose momentum.
perpetual bsh's are where you make those small isolation rotations with your hands (just like in the first post from four years ago), the tension is not loose and not tight, and by making those cute little iso roto's you add enough energy to the equation that you can keep them going for as long as you like.
sure but they need to be clean and well-balanced.
and anyway, crazy words, huh! just spin the things. you cant understand something from the words describing it, you can only understand it from doing it. but, yeah, save it for the philosophical debate forum or something, right? ha.
go0O0o tangles!
_________________________
those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.
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#316392 - 17/03/08 08:40 PM
Re: Perpetual Tangle Buzzsaw
[Re: shen shui]
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HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Registered: 04/11/05
Loc: Palmerston North
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Wow I'm shocked that nobody has linked to this Video yet
SuperDuperUberLoops (AKA Orbitals)
This is a Perpetual Tangle Buzzsaw unless I'm mistaken
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