Weave to Butterfly with Sticks x2 (how?)

Hey, does anyone know any transitions to change from double staff weave style moves (both spinning one direction) to butterfly style (spinning opposite direction)?

Cos I don't, and I want to

Anything that doesn't involve one of the staffs blatantly stopping then turning the other way would be cool. I'm thinking (wishfully) that theres got to be some cunning flick-of-the-wrist type maneuvers to switch almost imperceptibly from one to the other. There are, aren't there? Huh? Huh?

Right I played around with:

2 staffs going foward let them pass inside your arms at the same time, just as they are coming out of the insidespin you kinda gotta push with the palms of your hands (or that big lumpy bit at the bottom of your thumb whatever you call it) forcing your staffs to spin more kinda horizontal and then wup 'em behind your back. without stopping you should be in a backwards ??butterfly?? thing. In any case 2 sticks moving different directions. Well thats as close as I can get to explaining it. It is possible. And from that you can go into a threading the needle with 2 staffs. Have a laugh.
T.

Hey Simian Tempest showed me that move at the PIP the other week. Perhaps we could have a play around with it tonight????

I'll be well up for some playing with doubles tonight if I make it. I'm currently struggling through a day at work with a hardcore cold messing my head up. I'm still in two minds about whether I'll drag my pestilent frame down to Spitz.

Well if I don't see you and ya doubles tonight, you'll get some of this...and not forgetting some of these just cos it's you.

Hope you feel better honey

BamBam

yo bambam,

thnax for the shot of yer aerotechs at pip brw, great fun.

The easist way to change into butterfly is simply to turn 90degrees.

start with both going the same direction inna wall plane. if you turn 90degrees towards the hand going forwards and manipulate the plane so that what should be side plane becomes wall plane it transitions into butterfly. (backwards if you turn towards the forward hand and vice versa.

maybe a little difficult to get your head around but I promise to show you next time we meet.

Nix?

(p.s. a little fingerspin and you go into alternate butterfly.)

first time ever on HoP that i am in total disagreement with Nix?.... i think that transition is not pretty to say the least... and that stops are beautiful IF (and only if) done well... so try both his way and mine... find a stop that you like and work at it til it is smooth... then get back to me
R

Hello,

actually I really like stops, i just dont do them cos I taught myself the trasitions first. do it all I say.....


N

p.s., rob Im shocked, shurly youve disagreed with me before now?

ok ok , I'm just astupid little mod stuck all the way out here in NZ, nowhere near all you crazy staffers...

What in h*ll is a doubles staff butterfly?

i know what a poi butterfly is, and it just doesn;t seem to work in my mind.

Do you mean a wrists-together double fingerspin?

I htink it just means butterfly-style. As in sticks going opposite directions. Wrists need not be together at all - but there be nice moves where they are:)

Hope That's right. If not then I'm confused too. I thinkit's just to destinguish between moves where stick move in the same direction and moves where they're opposites.

napalm fairy is totally right, its just a way to describwe the spin of sticks relative to each other.


N

not true... you can do both thread the needle(one fingerspin/hand wrap) or extra beat thread the needle(....more)

and tom i have disagreed....but not so vehemently
Love
R

So Nix, you mean its just simultaneous fingerspins in the opposit direction...

That sounds too easy...

poor Charles. If only they'd use the Staff Terminology you worked soo damn hard to develop.

now, where is that thread?

who the what the hey now?

ah well, thats what happens when you try to describe the paths of spinning cylinders in three-dimensional space using a language which evolved mainly for the purpose of facilitating mating.

Anyway, I meant "butterfly" and "weave" not as specific moves, but as any move where the staffs are spinning in opposite directions relative to each other (butterfly moves) or any move where the staffs are spinning in the same relative direction (weave moves). I didn't actually mean specific moves that looked like the 3-beat weave or wrists together butterfly.

Is that any clearer? Or just even more confusing

oh well, hopefully after playing around a bit in the park tomorrow I'll be able to post some answers myself

simian is right charles, the double wrist together figerspin is a butterfly type move but not what were on about here. I tried to develope terminology for this (doubles terms dont exist on the "nameing staff moves" thread) and called it 'follow' or 'cross' time, which can be translasted into 'weave' or 'butterfly' time.

goddit?

Tom

lol - poor confused Charles. They're just names to generalize the movement.

'Butterfly' is just staffs going opposite directions. Not a move as such, just a quick and easy way to describe all the moves where you spin vertical rotors one clockwise, one anticlockwise.

ok, making a (little) bit of progress here.

Lightwise's post kind of went over my head, but after Bovril explained it to me I started messing around with trying to force the planes of the staff around.

warning: The following descriptions are REALLY longwinded, vague and rubbish, even by the usual standard of staff move descriptions. And the moves I'm talking about aren't actually technically impressive or attractive. So you only really want to read this if you, like me, are really really bored at work. Or if you really want to know a fairly sneaky and fluid way to change the rotational direction of a staff.
In a vain attempt to make sense i'm going to talk about x, y and z axis (axi? axises?) to describe which plane the staff is spinning in. The way i'm defining it:
the X axis is the plane in which you start spinning the staff (vertically).
Spinning in the Z axis is spinning horizontally.
Spinning in the Y axis is spinning vertically at 90 degrees to the X axis (the plane we've chosen as normal).
So usually you'd only spin in the X and maybe the Z axis, as forcing the staff into different planes isn't very pretty.

ANYWAY

Lightwise's move sounds like twisting the plane of the staff 180 degrees from forward rotation to horizontal to backwards. X to Z to X(mirrored). While i was playing with trying to do that i ended up doing pretty much the same but totally in vertical planes. X to Y to X(mirrored)

Starting from spinning forwards figure-of-8 in my left hand (wall plane), I take the staff in front of me to the other side of my body and at the same time shift it 90 degrees clockwise (as viewed from above) into Y axis.
The staff is now spinning backwards in the side plane on my right.
I now bring the staff in front of me, back to the left hand side of my body, at the same time twisting in another 90 degrees clockwise (as viewed from above). This twist is a bit harder than the first. The wrist movement required feels exactly like a shotgun (aka low doublespin).
Then I'm back in the X axis, exactly where I started, but now the staff is spinning backwards instead of forwards.

Hmm, the description took less space than the preamble. Ah never mind, a rambler I was born and a rambler I shall ever be.

Anyway, the reason I like this move is that it whacks the spin direction of the staff right round without the staff stopping or ending up with the axis in another direction. Once you work out the wrist movement, you can really do it at any speed, and the resistance of the staff to the plane change is a lot less than I'd have thought (but I am more used to poi, which change plane for no man).

So now all I need to do is to learn how to do it while spinning a staff in the other hand *whimper*

God has anyone actually read this far? You mad bastard, I'd have given up ages ago.

[ 22. February 2003, 04:30: Message edited by: Simian ]

yo, I read and understand!!!

forcing the plane is really a matter of timing, the staff has to go slanted at one point, and at that point it shouldent be about to hit you. try this trasition above but without taking the staff across the boddy, just sit in the wall plane and go to horisontal and back. btb pases are nice for plane trasitions and i gennerly find it easier to go into backward horisontal from backward vertical.

2.73pence

Nix?

I suk at reading direkshuns, but the transition you speak of mighty Plus, passes underneath your arms (diagonally kinda), and end up horizontal? Are your wrists facing the moon? I can't think of a finger roll that I know to sustain that, hmm..Can you just throw after the pass? mebbe palm spin?? plz explain