WEAVE...what AM I doing wrong???

I've only been spinning for about 2 months but I can't weave...don't know why but to me it seems to be the hardest thing to learn. I can do butterflies, TTN's and all sorts of other bits but I cam't weve... grrrrrrrrr
I've spoken to a coulpe of other spinners who taught themselves but they don't seem to be able explain what it is they're doing. They KNOW what they are doing in their heads but can't seem to be able to transfer that into words. I've had a look at it in the lessons section but I can't seem to get my head round it. Could someone please treat me like a small child and explain it VERY SIMPLY... would much appreciate it...

hehe, it's very difficult to articulate moves into coherant language.

here's how I work on getting weaves, First I just practice doing crosses, get comfortable with that. Than I sit there doing a split swing, as shown in the lessons. From there I simply try to bring one poi across to the other side and than back again. Usually I end up getting my right hand poi down first, I'm right hand dominant. Than I do the same with the left and it seems to work itself out. The process of course involves alot of hitting myself and such. Can't avoid that. I've used this mainly to get down btb weaves and such, when I first got a normal weave down I didn't do things this way. And it took much longer.

Alot of times you just have to set and hour or so aside and go at it. Keep on going even if you have no idea what happens, your hands will do what they need to in order to avoid pain to your body, so it just works out. It won't be clean right away but if you keep on doing it you subconsciencely improve.

hope that kind of helps

Sticks. Or more specificly a sand wedge and a 9 iron are the way I learned the weave. Just grab some sticks and try to do it ultra slow. Also the tutorial at www.firechains.com helped my with the little man drawings it has. But mainly it was temporarily using sticks instead of poi that led to the breakthrough.

1 stick held in both hands,
between fingers
hands 20cm apart palms facing together
make a vulcan V sign
then wedge the stick between 2nd and third fingers.
now try cross and follow*

(the all new HOP oldskool mission to get people using the "proper" oldskool names for moves.
cross follow is the "real" name for 3 beat weave.)

good luck
A

just...wear a cup if you're a guy. learning the weave is a good way to solidly introduce your poi to your testicles.

I find that if you take both POI round together in the figure of eight required and merely keep them apart, people tend to speed one up or slow one down naturally, let this happen, feel it when it does, then memorise what it feels like in the split second before you tangle. Do it again a few times and youll be getting it. Just be patient with the first bit though, it will happen and concentrate hard on keeping them apart.

"if it wags its tail and it barks, chances are its a dog"

You can also practise each hand's movement separately. For the forward weave stand with your left hand sticking out in front of you and your poi in your right hand.

Your poi should spin once on the right... as it comes over your shoulder and down it crosses to the left and does a spin over your left arm, followed by one under your left arm, and then back to the right to begin again. So it's one, over, under... three beats.

Similarly practise with your poi in the left hand and your right arm sticking out.

This will get you used to the hand movements and you'll find it's easier to learn using any of the other methods mentioned here

cheers spiralx.. that makes so much more sense than waving sticks about...not that is anything wrong with those methods but spiral seems to have made it as simlpe as it's going to be... I'll be back in a week to tell you how much i have or have not injured myself

"cross follow is the "real" name for 3 beat weave"

Why? How? Says who but drew? And why are they more important?

The slow weave.

Any experienced spinner will tell you that there are few sights more impressive than some one doing the 3 beat weave as fast as they can

For me however, the weave done as slowly as possible is a much more useful thing to work on.

Whenever I teach someone the basics of spinning I always encourage them to work on being able to do the moves really slow, for the following reasons: -

1. when things go wrong and impacts occur, they are considerably less painful and less likely to lead to injury

2. it teaches better control- if you can do a move slow then it's straightforward to do it fast, the reverse isn't necessarily true

3. understanding- being able to do the moves slow facilitates understanding exactly how they work, which in turn will be useful when trying to work out new variations/combinations

4. slow moves tend to lead to exaggerated body movements/stretching, more concise footwork, lower deeper stances etc. In the same way that all these things are good for ones health when performing Tai Chi, they are also good for health when spinning

A good basic move to work on slowing down with is the three beat weave.

One of the most useful things I did in spinning was to start each practice session with a few minutes of 3 beat done as slowly as possible- much more useful than any individual advanced move, as, working on slowing down the weave was a holistic skill that, once grasped, can permeate every new move/combination that you learn.

When doing the slow 3 beat it's a good idea to widen the stance and sink the weight by bending your knees a little more.

Start with the normal speed weave, then slow it down; as well as a lower stance you'll find that, as you slow down, your shoulder/body movements/twist will be much more pronounced.

Doing this every day will quickly bring improvement and, especially for beginners, IMO is one of the most useful things to practice.

------------------------

'Beats'

It came as a bit of a revelation to me when working on slowing the weave, that as a poi spins its circle, there's only a small, and specific, part of its arc which requires energy input from the spinner.

The best way to understand this is to do a very slow figure eight with one poi only, and focus on the feel of the poi in the fingertips (hold the poi in your fingers for this, even if they have finger loops don't use them, they're not necessary for spinning this slow and will reduce sensation).

You'll feel a 'pull' on a specific part of the pois circle, on the portion where the poi is low and slightly behind you.

For the rest of its orbit the poi is effectively in free fall with no intervention needed from you.

I think it's useful to grasp this because, firstly, this same awareness can be applied in all moves/combinations, leading to a more relaxed way of spinning where the spinner is only applying energy at the few points it is necessary- for over 80% of their motion the poi will simply be following their natural paths.

Secondly, those 'pulls' correspond to 'beats'. Beats as officially defined by Home of Poi

ie total number of circles/swings before the pattern repeats; see: -
http://www.homeofpoi.com/articles/beats.php

So, for example, doing the above figure eight with one poi you'll find a pull on each side, giving a 2 beat- do it with 2 poi and that's the 2 beat weave.

If you do a 3 beat weave, slow it down, then focus on the pulls on your left hand- you'll find 2 pulls when the left hand poi is one the right side of your body, and 1 pull when it's back on the left; giving 3 beats total.

On a 4 beat you'll get 2 pulls on each side, and, with a five beat you'll get 3 on one side and 2 on the other for a total of 5.

Beats are a bit bewildering, even for fairly advanced spinners it can be difficult to count beats in anything beyond the three beat.

It can be done visually, but I find it much easier to do it tactily, focusing on one hand.

---------

Moving on.

Once the 3 beat slow weave is mastered, apply the same principle to reverse 3 beat, then work on maintaining the slowness when going from forward 3 beat to reverse.

On of the things I do to try to encourage beginners to work on slowing down is to show them a transition from forward to reverse weave at normal speed.

It's clear that there's little obvious logic to that turn, one second I'm facing North in a forward weave, the next I'm facing South in reverse- the bit in the middle is bewildering unless you can do the move.

Then I repeat the transition, but this time start with a really slow forward weave, in a low stance and exaggerate the amount of turn of waist and shoulders. This means that as the pattern moves to each side it naturally starts to turn towards the South before being pulled back to the other side.

At this point, instead of pulling it back you simply follow the energy of the pattern and it slowly flows into the reverse weave facing south, and, as it does so, the logic and natural flow of the transition is much more clear.

Even more so when you're actually doing the move, as then there is plenty of tactile feedback.

And then of course, the same principle of slowing down can be applied to 4/5 beat weaves, butterflies and all the combinations/transitions that you know.

OneWheelDave.

Very nice Dave, I've just started to learn poi/meteors and this is the kind of info that really helps.

Its really nice to see poi presented in such a thoughtful manner.

As with alot of movment styles, studying the most basic moves is fundamental to developing an understanding of more complex movements and patterns

Thankyou.

A

Good stuff Dave.

.lol. There are few sights more impressive than some one doing the 3 beat weave really slowly

The ability to spin slowly was one thing that really stood out when watching visiting English spinners at our local meet-ups.

Perhaps it's a coincidence, but in the last week or so I've gone back to practicing 2 beat moves in side plane, and I was thinking the 2 beat weave looks kinda nice. It has also really helped me identify some weaknesses that have been preventing me from progressing, to say the rev 5-beat weave. I'll try to add a few things I have found useful with the 2 beat weave, after I've had a chance to study your suggestions.

Good thread, I completely agree about spinning things slowly to learn control. And about force only needing to be applied at certain points in a move - this is much more pronounced when you're doing a butterfly weave I've found.

As for 2 beats, I'm still trying to make sure I can do all of the 2 beat butterfly weaves and also all of the offset 2 beat butterfly weaves - makes it much easier to keep the pattern going from any position.

Thank you Dave. I can now do a reverse 5 beat weave and its all down to your advice on slowing it all down! Thanks again!!

*flashback*
this reminded me of spinning poi too slowly - just under critical momentum so that they flop off of the top part of their circles.
it was a summer in in hendon and i was in the garden with someone called 'andrew'...
i had trouble with it but he span a lovely 3bt floppy weave that day
*flashback*

great thread dave

Since I read this I have been trying it. It is harder than it sounds, my hands keep wanting to speed up, or they forget what they are meant to be doing.
It has been very good practice though, It has made me realise that even though I could do the weave I didn't really know what I was doing. Now I do, At least a bit.
Thanks for the tip.

gooood advice and good thread dave

place my poi spun slowest: the stone circle at glastonbury festival.

Just a quickie

Slowing things down gives you time to look inside the move. Then it starts to become easier to poke a poi in the opposite way to what you normally do, or get in that extra beat or whatever. And then you start to really learn.

Written by:

---

It came as a bit of a revelation to me when working on slowing the weave, that as a poi spins its circle, there's only a small, and specific, part of its arc which requires energy input from the spinner.

---

If you only have a small part of the circle accelerated one will get a weave where the speed varies. I was experimenting with slow spinning as well and figured out that a circle can be done with a constant "acceleration" which gives you the best control imo. Dom told me that PK was playing with acceleration points at the top of the circle which would be another variation, but quite difficult I guess

?!?

Some wall plane things from clubs swinging that I’m starting to use with poi in side plane. They may be of interest.

You really only need to use enough energy to keep the poi spinning i.e. they should almost spin with their own momentum.

For outward circles in wall plane you keep your hand/wrist close to the hip when coming from behind to in-front,; increase momentum at the bottom of the circle when coming from behind to in-front.

For inward circles in wall plane you keep your hand/wrist close to the hip when coming from in-front to behind; increase momentum at the top of the circle when coming from in-front to behind.

I’m at work with not even a ruler to play with, so I hope I got that around the right way. Will check later anyhow.

Cheers

Some wall plane things from clubs swinging that I’m starting to use with poi in side plane. They may be of interest.

You really only need to use enough energy to keep the poi spinning i.e. they should almost spin with their own momentum.

For outward circles in wall plane you keep your hand/wrist close to the hip when coming from behind to in-front; increase momentum at the bottom of the circle when coming from behind to in-front.

For inward circles in wall plane you keep your hand/wrist close to the hip when coming from in-front to behind; increase momentum at the top of the circle when coming from in-front to behind.

I’m at work with not even a ruler to play with, so I hope I got that around the right way. Will check later anyhow.

Cheers

Woo-hoo I can weave

Thanks to spiralx and onewheeldave for some great tips; spiralx's explanation is very close to the way the weave is shown on the Art Of Poi DVD.

Having done the "over, under, out" routine to death and had the DVD looping on slo-mo for what seemed like forever, I was still having problems getting it going and this seems to be a problem with the weave for some other people, too - finding their own comfortable starting point - everybody seems to have their own to beging with.

So I referred back to a little video I shot the other week, of a girl who's explanation of how she did the weave was very clear and that was the key - simply by copying her starting point, I suddenly found myself weaving. Now I'm starting to slow it down and bring it in closer. I also often practice with eyes shut, just to take in the feel and balance of a new move, while I feel for ways to take it into something else.

oooh, this might be just what i need.

i got my poi about four days ago, and some very kind person at leeds festial outside the radio one tent taught me to 3 beat weave (althought just by reading this thread i have realised that that was what i'm doing!)

i want to learn it "backwards" but i'm a little confused.
am i right in thinking that to do it backwards the arm movements dont really change, but the poi just go the opposite way....

it's been bugging me all day and i only get an hour for lunch which is not enough time for me to work it out in...

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Hi!

I want to say thank you for all you guys giving me so many good advices to learn weave. Especially the link: www.calefaction.org/teach/weave.html was really useful (even the video didn't work). anyway, because of all tips, now I got the idea how to make weave. It looks really funny, and I keep hitting myself, but I'm so happy finally to get it somehow

thats cool i'll try that tonight...

i think i've sort of got it but i'm not too sure...

to do it backwards which way are they ment to be going? do the poi just go in the same shape only in reverse (this sounds stupid)

like instead of going down they go up as they cross? because thats sort of how i've been trying it....

Yes, they scoop up as they cross and the under beat on the opposite site happens before the over beat, it is literally a rewind of a weave.

aha! thank you!!

i am trying to do it right then! i sort of got it last night, but the strings on my poi kept geting wrapped round each other!

just practice practice practice now then until i get it spot on!

thanks so much for the help, at least i know i'm trying to do it right and not wasting time trying something that is impossable!!

cheers!

I usually spin during my lunch hour and i'm teaching some of the lads at work and dave is right. Slow your moves down and get the technique.
It will also help when you transition from one move to another.
Excelent technique should look like Tai Chi with poi and after that you can speed it up and have fun.