What is a waistwrap?

I've seen it mentioned a couple of times. Can anyone describe it for me?

Is it where you stand side on to a weave and have the poi circle in front, behind on one side, back in front, behind on your other side? Sort of swapping between forwards and reverswe weave as you go?

J

ummmm......yess. But it's not just doing weaves cos there's a 'carry' in there too. That is, you flip the poi onto one side before you've done all the roataions of a weave, so you carry it over to the other side. And there are no wraps. The name comes from club swinging I believe.....

You can do it in a weave and in a butterfly, in front of you and btb.

I think you'll have to get Dom or Glass or PK to come and explain it cos I can't. It's something to do with the beats and where/when you 'carry' it over. I can do it but I'm not sure how

sorry!

?

Er... We had always called a waist wrap a wrap on the waist. Like going from corkscrews you can easily wrap your waist and kick into reverse corkscrew, or if you only wrap one, it's a horizontal butterfly.

Waist + wrap = waist wrap.

Looks cool when done by people with nice hips. Then again, us Raver influenced US kids do more "full" wraps then you juggling influenced europeans. Glass wouldn't even dignify my wraps as proper wraps by Eurostandards.

I've always called a wrap a move in which the poi wraps, runs out of string and smacks a body part, then changes direction. But that was before I went to the EJC. Then realizing that those "European" style wraps are all the rage (where they only wrap a body part partially, then unwrap, like a neck wrap) I guess I had to reassess my vocabulary.

But back to the point. There are quite a few people that would call a wrap of the waist a waist wrap.

NYC, with all your wraps you're such a glowsticker

It's a bit hard to explain and visualise, I normally defer to glass. Like the Fairy says, a waistwrap is a club spinning move, like weave to weave, but with a carry from one to the other, missing out one of the internal circles. And it goes in front, then one hand behind the back, so your hands wrap around the waist. Hence waist wrap.

Ok, I think that's what I had in mind. Cheers.

J (likes having names for moves)

NYC - I call most wraps around your waist/torso (where the chains actually wrap) body wraps. Cos this new and complex club swinging 'waistwrap' stole the name. there are no wraps involved though

looks amazing when executed properly

Hi Jephyre, you ask a question and describe a move.

In the context of poi, and what has been previously said on wraps in this forum, then wraps are named after the body part you wrap. Like arm wrap, foot wrap, toe wrap, bum wrap etc, etc, etc. So for a waist wrap, the poi would wrap around the waist. Simple, until we get into these old club moves.

I like clubs, but have limited resources and I don't mind admitting that I've never heard of a "waistwrap", or a "carry" for that matter. I would call the move you described the lower fountain, but then I call nearly everything a fountain

I could see how "waistwrap" could be used to describe joining the lower front and lower back fountains together. Like someone would say "just throw in a "waist wrap" to join the lower front with the lower back."

I'd be interested to know if the "waistwrap" is used as another name for the lower fountains, or if it's a term used to describe joining the back and front fountains together. I won't hold my breath

Suppose a "carry" would be short arm circles???

[ 18 October 2002, 03:58: Message edited by: Stone ]

So then ros, what would you guys call a wrap around the waist? Or do people just not do that out there?

I do think that the differences and influences do have to do with US=>Rave; Euro=>Juggling connections. I guarantee most US firespinners have never even seen club twirling. And I don't know any US firespinners who can juggle clubs, let alone twirl them.

hmmmm... I know a club swinger and a fire club juggelar

Hey NYC, I think the English connection is more with Indian clubs, rather than juggling clubs. Indian clubs being one of the many things the British army brought back from India, or that's how the story goes.

NYC if we ever finally meet will you please show me some of those wraps?
Right now the only wraps i do are ones where the poi go around your legs front and back and the one where you do a butterfly and wrap both around a leg to come up to reverse butterfly. One time i handcuffed myself trying to do wrist wraps and it was scary enough that i haven't had the guts to try and duplicate it....big flame burning on wrist BAD!
I might try that corkscrew to waist wrap to reverse corkscrew though..sounds relatively simple and i have nice hips

waistwrap

Ok its an old old clubswinging move,
actually its a whole family of moves, I thing its one of the main families or poi moves from the old school. At a quick count I've got over 40 members in the family so its less than half the size of the weave family.

Its not a lower fountain which is clubswing name for Cross follow to reverse cross follow (some of you young uns might call this 3beat weave to reverse 3 beat weave ), in the wall plane, (side to side not front to back). if your used to doing that, it really messes you up when your learning waist wrap. description of front waist wrap with top carry in next post.

top carry is easier, bottom carry in front feels nicer for me, its the same move as if you did the top carry standing on your head

back waist wraps with top carrys are lush moves, full waist wrap is da bomb move, its my favorite of the old skool swinging moves. combines front and back, changine between them at the carry. bollocks this needs a video, comming soon. actually might have a clip I can post

They're much more like doing 2 beat to reverse 2 beat with a carry than 3 beat.

carry is part of the great circle or long arm circles, a bit like what you might do infront in a giant windmill. usually in the wall plane too.

so a wrap round the waist, never called it by name, but I like ros' suggestion of body wrap to avoid confusion.

well it just makes a nice quirk in world of poi nomenclature (thats a lovely word) :nerd mode off

be cool
Glass
___
be

[ 18 October 2002, 08:09: Message edited by: glass ]

Glass, is that a variant of what Cass was working on where the poi come from behind the back to the front (I think an advanced variation of a waist wrap)? One following the other behind the back then under the armpit to the front. Ug, explaining myself badly... Too bad Cass doen't read technical.

Definitely a club swingin' move.

I got no problem with the same phrase "waist wrap" being used for a wrap of the waist and a club juggling term for the orientation of a poi move. Obviously they both make sense.

Gotta run...

crap I spent too long re-editing that post.
gotta get back to work, I'll come back here to write desc later.
Is there any way to get at the 2nd HOP descussion board, cos I wrote a really long description of them there.
NYC, yes. if it was at EJC
edited above should make more sense now.

Now where's that vidjo camera

meantime practice these 8 moves:
2 beat weave under your arm in the wall plane, both directions under either arm.
if coming from the front, then when on the left, when the left hand is BTB, the palm is facing up, (like fred flintstone) and same for right on the right. easy practice for front waste wrap, thats the first 4

the second 4 are....
maaahaa
Walm up. NO I REALLY MEAN THAT
STRETCH ARMS AND SHOULDERS
when your learning this bit

Same 4 moves as above, poi in exaclty same places doing the same moves, but instead of reaching across the front to have right arm on the left, reach BTB

This is still in the wall plane, don't need to twist body, much more reachy than BTB Weave

when you can do these 8, the lovely world of Waist wraps will soon follow

glad to be of service

Glass
__
be

"the palm is facing up, (like fred flintstone)"

sorry to interrupt with annoying clarification questions but... do two of the moves in the second set involve having your right/left arm going behind your back and spinning the poi on your left/right hand side and *in front of your body*?

these complex move explanations often confuse me (as well as a few others i'd hope!). is there a glossary of descriptions anywhere that we can refer to? maybe a thread with a bunch of 'standard' move names and a few descriptions of each would be handy (eg. 'in the wall plane' means side to side not front to back, so poi spin in front or behind you as if you were facing or had your back to a wall).

i don't know if this board is ideal for this as it has sequential replies but it would be nice to have a proper taxonomy for all this ambiguous nomenclature. that could be the name of the thread...

: . . my poi are still but my head is spinning . . :

: . . my poi are still but my head is spinning . . :


thats why I'll try to sort out video

the fred flintstone thing is important. means that your shoulder doesn't get twisted back. cant do full waist wrap otherwise.

the bit that made you go .
yes thats what I mean.

Glossary of terms. Time for you to start one methinks, but it will get ultra confusing cos everyone has different names. If you wait PK and I are starting to work on it.

wall plane is "juggling wall plane" where balls would be if you were juggling
back wall plane. same BTB.

be cool
Drew

Great stuff glass, really appreciate the effort that goes into those descriptions. So regarding the lost post in second hop discussion, perhaps you could ask Malcolm, or one of the cheerful hop moderators to dig it up from the archives, coz it would save a lot of time and effort.

If you are talking back-of-waist, arm-over-back type stuff, then I would probably call them waist circles.

I hope this makes sense now Cheers

[ 19 October 2002, 09:36: Message edited by: Stone ]

Stone
Cant understand a word of it LOL

hmm thinks its time to mention that the other name for indian club swinging was Poise


now back in the 1930's my granny was in a 2000 person club swinging display in earl court exhibition centre.!!

Glass
__be

Actually, fair point glass. I read my last post back it was a lot of crap. I've made some changes.

poise = balance, or did I miss something

I'm impressed that your gran was in a 2000 person club swinging display at the earl's court exhibition centre. Great stuff, that would have been fantastic to see. Clubs were BIG back then. Possibly bigger than baton in the States.

Looking forward to learning about waistwraps, sometime.

Yeah, now that I think about it, Fred would have had an appreciation of clubs.

[ 19 October 2002, 09:46: Message edited by: Stone ]

next bit of the waist wrap description
For front waist wrap
with
top carry
spinning
all Anticlockwise

Left hand
wall plane (side to side)
3 circles then a carry back to start....

circle 1 - Under the left arm behind, with hand PALM UP like Barny Rubble and Fred Flintstone (this bit is really important). 1 beat/1 circle only.
circle 2 - one circle in front with your hand touching your belly button. 1 beat/1 circle only.

circle 3 - reaching across the front, circle under the right arm. 1 beat/1 circle only.

then carry back to the start, for starting out I always teach the carry as a really long arm reach up to the sky above and infront of you and drop straight into circle 1 behind.

when you've got this and your counting 1-2-3-carry.

Next thing:
practices with the right hand doing all the same circles in the same place and same direction.
Can put hands together for this, if practicing like that helps you.

The whole waist wrap will be swung with both hands following the same path, in follow time, with (for this one) the left hand always leading.

I'll try to sort out video's soon

bee cool and enjoy bashing yourself with this lovelovely move

bounces back into reality

Glass
__
be