Help me with forward btb weave

Getting pretty good now + can pick up new tricks quite easily. BUT the forward btb weave is the bane of my life. i just cant get it, i can do regular btb weave but forwards just seems to try and make my arms bend in an unatural way. my elbows dont go that way u know! any one got any helpful hints 4 me, ill be most grateful.

[ 04 October 2002, 04:11: Message edited by: elph ]

sorry elph.....but the btb weave is aboot 3mm....
(USA) short of impossible.....
3mm 'coz it can be done but, 3mm 'coz it is like the top level of like the moster move charts.......like no. 1.....

not even god can help you with that one...sorry.....unless of course he gave you arms like gumby at birth

Actually, it can be done, but it's hard to do well (and to be honest, why bother when the reverse btb is so much easier to get looking good).

If you need to be bendy for rev btb, you need to be even bendier for forw. btb. I found that once I'd figured out the way the hands moved, I could get the bendiness. Hmm, how to describe the hand move? Starting with the left hand, move it round to the right, and pass the right hand down underneath it. When you get that without hitting yourself, do it with right hand going left, then left hand passing beneath the right hand, and then try and join the two together to get the weave going.

Hey Sepa the one you are talking about... what is that one called because i can do that i learned it in like 4 hours.............. hurt like hell trying though

What kind of attitude is this I'm hearing?

I haven't tuned into this section of the board in a while. For one thing, this has been *extensively* discussed. Do a forum search on it--you'll come up with lots of tips.

For another, if a stiff-limbed older guy like me can do it well (I can), so can all of you. Hell, I've got the fwd 5-beat btb weave down pretty well, and am working on the rvs.

So let's not have any of that sandbagging.

dont think you have to nail every move to be a good poi dancer,

if your arms dont bend like gumby, dont try and make them bend like gumby, or youll end up like gumbys friend goo (the blue one that could fly) as i recall she always ended up splating her self ona windscreen or something..

okay, bad example. your body is not meant to bend in certain ways, sure, like admarice in the post above me says, he can do it, but thats doesnt mean every one can. if your trying to do this move non stop, and not giving your arms time to stretch, warm up and move in a normal manner, you can be in danger of straining something.

no go wash your ears, clean your teeth and pop into bed, this is your mother speaking!

Come on Sparx anyone can the btb weaves it just takes PRACTICE, and the will or need to do em.

That does not mean that you have to do them, only if you want to. You never know, they may open up a new dimension of poi for you.

I agree about warming up, and acquiring the flexibility needed for btb stuff gradually, rather then going out one day and trying to force them. Ouch.

I must strongly dissagree with Sparx on this one. I have not seen a single move posted on this board that would be impossible for anyone (except perhaps the non-wrap 7-beat weave and I even question that). Some of them will take considerable practice, it took me a great many months to smooth out my btb 5-beats and they still aren't perfect, but none of them are impossible.

True, don't strain yourselves. All these moves are possible but you don't want to hurt yourself trying to learn them. It is possible to do the forward btb with almost completely straight arms. All you need to do is sway side to side more. Turn your body so that your arms never need to stray too far from the small of your back. You will also find that the more you practice, the more flexible you will become and the easier these tricks will be to perform. The btb weaves (forward in particular) is usually one of the first moves that people learn that generally requires months of practice to acheive.

The one thing Sparx did get right though is that you do not need to be able to nail every move to be a good poi-dancer. However being able to do more tricks allows for greater diversity in your spinning as well as a better understanding of the nature of poi (refering to momentum and direction). It is very possible to do an entire routine blindfolded. As you progress in your spinning you will reach a point where you no longer need to watch your poi as you allready know where they are going, you will be able to spin entirely by feel.

[ 21 October 2002, 16:55: Message edited by: Jaeden ]

yes, i agree with jaeden on disagreeing with my previous comments.

i re-read my first comments, and realised i had missed alot of stuff.

Such as, that you will get more flexiable with practice. i also didnt mean to completely stop learning, i kinda meant to not let it get you down and to maybe learn another trick, or variation, work on a routine, or whatever for a week or three, then have another shot at it.

i stand by my advice on not doing constant pratice without breaks and stretches, and that you dont have to know every move to be a good poi-dancer.

but everything else i said was pretty much wrong, will try to consentrate more in future!

Originally posted by Sepa:

quote:

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Actually, it

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(forwards btb weave)

quote:

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can be done, but it's hard to do well (and to be honest, why bother when the reverse btb is so much easier to get looking good).

---

I know what you're saying - it does take a lot of practice - but I can do my forwards and reverse btb weaves beautifully and smoothly so that it looks and feels great.

Also, knowing both directions opens up so many more combinations including btb weave turns (180 degrees, or 360 or continuous circles if you feel energetic!) as well as windmil > weave > btb weaves > turns type things. There's so much to play with when you're not restriced.

And then there's the whole world of WAISTWRAPS to be enjoyed too

Helpful hints for Elph

1)lean forwards slightly
don't hunch down but bending your back slightly forwards while learning will give your arms more space behind your back and make it easier

2)learn with one poi.
learn to do a figure eight forwards behind your back with only one poi until you can do it comfortably time after time.
-Learn to do it equally as comfortably with the other hand too

3)Exaggerated movements
I found exaggerating the arm movements helped to keep the poi clear of my body all the time. As you get better you can make it tighter and neater but for the moment concentrate on keeping the poi in their orbits and away from your body.

4)Learn to do a 2-beat first.
Each poi does a figure eight in split time. Do this behind yoour back. The poi will cross then uncross, cross then uncross...etc....and follow each other round.

5)Add the last beat
Add the last beat to make it a three beat weave. If it helps, go back to using one poi for a bit and practive doing one rotation on the 'same' side and two on the 'crossed' side, over and over again. Do it with both hands. Then start from your two-beat and do what feels right to add the last beat.

Hope that helped a little bit. It's an awesome move when yoou get it

Just take your time and roll with the bruises

Feel free to email me if you need any more help and I'll do my best,
xxx

I find it odd that most everyone on this site sugests doing the btb crossover before learing the weave. It seems to make sence though when I was learning I could never figure out the crossover and didn't bother trying anymore once I got the weave. To this day I still have not done a btb figure-8.

And I find that odd.

I still can't do a straight crossover (same time) but all the people I've taught (including myself!) find it helpful to do the two beat/ split time cross over , before doing btb weave.

mmm, if you know the btb forwards you should know it in reverse, because you never know when youre suddenly gonna be in btb and turn around for some reason, and when that happens, i at least, like to know what to do with them...

for nothing else learn the reverse of all moves to be prepared...

anyways...

best hints i can give you: bend way the hell over, pretend youre mooning someone, not the most flattering of postions, but it gives your arms more space to play with, and as you get smoother, youll straighten up

try just turning around from btb forwards, suprisingly, it does work sometimes, because the poi are gonna follow the correct paths regardless and youre hands just have to follow them, sounds crazy, but give it a go, thats how i learned...

That's not a problem. We all pick up manuevers differently. A lot of it comes from muscle memory. Once you go into a pattern, such as a 2bt crossover, if you are accustomed to a 3bt or 5bt weave, you have to conciously think about the move or you will just end up back in the pattern you are familiar with.

If it helps, I forgot the 2bt even though I started with it. Once I started doing more complex weaves, the brain just slipped into overdrive.

Heck, Im constantly practicing old moves because I forget them after a time.

As for the help on btb forward weave, I dont think I could add anything that Ms. Fluffy Napalm Fairy hasn't said. I would follow her advice word for word.

....course, looking at her picture, I might just follow her regardless.

I would only add one thing to Ms. Fairy's comprehensive advice, and that's at the 'add the last beat stage'. If you go back to one hand to get the beat timing right, I find it helps a lot of people if they swing one poi, but move the other hand with it i.e. try and do two on the far side, one under the other arm and one over it, then one back round the other side.

My two cents ^

Just give yourself time.. a *lot* of time if necessary.. I did my first forwards btb3bt yesterday (extremely messily), and I've been trying to learn it for.. ooh.. about a year?

One thing I suggest is just try turning from the reverse.. that's what finally got it for me, just tried one morning and my hands did it right without me really telling them to.

I can't do the figure 8 or 2 bt btb though.. I probably should learn..
Have fun anyway.