Forums > Social Discussion > "Stolen Generation" of AUstralia finally receives PM apology
Login/Join to ParticipateStargazer
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Posted:
Stolen generation of Aboriginals in Australia
The wording
Way to go (finally)... keep up the good work, guys....
(disclaimer: pls make allowances to me, picking up the topic as a non-Australian. I hope it's alright with you.)
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1202893057)
Stolen generation of Aboriginals in Australia
The wording
Written by: Wikipedia
Today we honour the Indigenous peoples of this land, the oldest continuing cultures in human history.
We reflect on their past mistreatment.
We reflect in particular on the mistreatment of those who were Stolen Generations - this blemished chapter in our nation's history.
The time has now come for the nation to turn a new page in Australia's history by righting the wrongs of the past and so moving forward with confidence to the future.
We apologise for the laws and policies of successive Parliaments and governments that have inflicted profound grief, suffering and loss on these our fellow Australians.
We apologise especially for the removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children from their families, their communities and their country.
For the pain, suffering and hurt of these Stolen Generations, their descendants and for their families left behind, we say sorry.
To the mothers and the fathers, the brothers and the sisters, for the breaking up of families and communities, we say sorry.
And for the indignity and degradation thus inflicted on a proud people and a proud culture, we say sorry.
We the Parliament of Australia respectfully request that this apology be received in the spirit in which it is offered as part of the healing of the nation.
For the future we take heart; resolving that this new page in the history of our great continent can now be written.
We today take this first step by acknowledging the past and laying claim to a future that embraces all Australians.
A future where this Parliament resolves that the injustices of the past must never, never happen again.
A future where we harness the determination of all Australians, Indigenous and non-Indigenous, to close the gap that lies between us in life expectancy, educational achievement and economic opportunity.
A future where we embrace the possibility of new solutions to enduring problems where old approaches have failed.
A future based on mutual respect, mutual resolve and mutual responsibility.
A future where all Australians, whatever their origins, are truly equal partners, with equal opportunities and with an equal stake in shaping the next chapter in the history of this great country, Australia
Way to go (finally)... keep up the good work, guys....
(disclaimer: pls make allowances to me, picking up the topic as a non-Australian. I hope it's alright with you.)
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1202893057)
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
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Posted:
I'm sorry.
But I'm worried about what's going to happen next...
I'm sorry.
But I'm worried about what's going to happen next...
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
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what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
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Posted:
in what way, Rouge?
in what way, Rouge?
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
Stargazer
6,650 posts
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Posted:
"Worrying helps as much as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum"
Rouge:
Other than that, same as Gabe is asking.
"Worrying helps as much as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum"
Rouge:
Written by: Wiki
Rudd confirmed that the apology would not entail compensation.
Other than that, same as Gabe is asking.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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is a medium/large scary man
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Location: Victoria, Australia, Earth, Milky Way...
Posted:
The Australian Government can say sorry but not for me...
I don't mind K-Rudd as our new PM... But this is one thing he's lost me on...
I'm not worried about Compensation claims/payouts at all... (as i'm assuming that's what Rougie is alluding to)
As there is no way the courts can award damages for what was law at the time (Aboriginal Protection Act 1869).
I believe a sorry was in order and an apology would have been acceptable and I may have got behind that... But the "Righting of wrongs" is the part that loses me... I fear that while the vast majority of the Aboriginals involved were seeking an apology, there are many out there that (as unfortunate as it is) are demanding compensation...
There is no way to right the wrongs that were done, and the government should not be apologising for it's own laws...
I am sorry for what happened... The government should not be.
*Edited... The elaboration was there originally... didn't post for some reason...
EDITED_BY: Moka (1202893840)
The Australian Government can say sorry but not for me...
I don't mind K-Rudd as our new PM... But this is one thing he's lost me on...
I'm not worried about Compensation claims/payouts at all... (as i'm assuming that's what Rougie is alluding to)
As there is no way the courts can award damages for what was law at the time (Aboriginal Protection Act 1869).
I believe a sorry was in order and an apology would have been acceptable and I may have got behind that... But the "Righting of wrongs" is the part that loses me... I fear that while the vast majority of the Aboriginals involved were seeking an apology, there are many out there that (as unfortunate as it is) are demanding compensation...
There is no way to right the wrongs that were done, and the government should not be apologising for it's own laws...
I am sorry for what happened... The government should not be.
*Edited... The elaboration was there originally... didn't post for some reason...
EDITED_BY: Moka (1202893840)
Contact juggling was invented by dung beetles.
Stargazer
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Posted:
don't get you, maybe you elaborate?
don't get you, maybe you elaborate? the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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Insert Champagne Here
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Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
But research shows that chewing stimulated blood flow which then reaches the brain and helps to think and then get the algebra done
Yeah, I realise that he said that, but there's already a call for it [compensation].
And I'm for sorry, but against compensation.
Why?
Because money can't fix the past. It can't bring back a childhood that was taken away. HOWEVER!
Money CAN make better childhoods for CURRENT generations of aboriginal children. Fund aboriginal youth centres like what Era's aunt (is that the right person??) runs. Money should be spent on the future now. Not the past.
I think that compensation is selfish.
But research shows that chewing stimulated blood flow which then reaches the brain and helps to think and then get the algebra done
Yeah, I realise that he said that, but there's already a call for it [compensation].
And I'm for sorry, but against compensation.
Why?
Because money can't fix the past. It can't bring back a childhood that was taken away. HOWEVER!
Money CAN make better childhoods for CURRENT generations of aboriginal children. Fund aboriginal youth centres like what Era's aunt (is that the right person??) runs. Money should be spent on the future now. Not the past.
I think that compensation is selfish.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
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is a medium/large scary man
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Location: Victoria, Australia, Earth, Milky Way...
is a medium/large scary man
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Location: Victoria, Australia, Earth, Milky Way...
Posted:
I aggree with you rougie... Give some money to the current gen...
As bad as it sounds the Stolen Children* are lost now they've either used the situation and made something of themselves or they haven't and are the ones jumping up and down for compo, compensation is pointless and as rougie said, Fund the Youth centers and fund education on the history and culture of the Aboriginal People...
I aggree with you rougie... Give some money to the current gen...
As bad as it sounds the Stolen Children* are lost now they've either used the situation and made something of themselves or they haven't and are the ones jumping up and down for compo, compensation is pointless and as rougie said, Fund the Youth centers and fund education on the history and culture of the Aboriginal People...
Contact juggling was invented by dung beetles.
Stargazer
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Posted:
I didn't expect you to change your point of view from that "Declaration of native rights" thread, Rouge.
The only problem with compensation is, that the average (and mostly innocent) taxpayer would have to bear it, instead of those who directly gain(ed) huge profits and satisfaction by mistreating the (human) rights of Aboriginal people in Australia...
You may (not) believe that ppl are still suffering from what have been done to them in the past, IMHO denying compensation is as selfish as demanding it. I would side you, if not Australia got enormous resources to a very small population... Compensation should be easy as whipped cream.
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1202894288)
I didn't expect you to change your point of view from that "Declaration of native rights" thread, Rouge.
The only problem with compensation is, that the average (and mostly innocent) taxpayer would have to bear it, instead of those who directly gain(ed) huge profits and satisfaction by mistreating the (human) rights of Aboriginal people in Australia...
You may (not) believe that ppl are still suffering from what have been done to them in the past, IMHO denying compensation is as selfish as demanding it. I would side you, if not Australia got enormous resources to a very small population... Compensation should be easy as whipped cream.
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1202894288)
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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is a medium/large scary man
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is a medium/large scary man
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Posted:
Compensation should still not be paid, just because someone or some entity has a lot of money does not mean they should shell it out...
Update or Abolishing of laws doesn't allow for compensation... That would be like Paying compensation to the widow(er)s of people hanged in Australia who were hanged under what was a just and fair law at the time allowing capital punishment. This is now seen as 'wrong' in Australia... and is no longer allowed, yet there'll no apology there...
Compensation should still not be paid, just because someone or some entity has a lot of money does not mean they should shell it out...
Update or Abolishing of laws doesn't allow for compensation... That would be like Paying compensation to the widow(er)s of people hanged in Australia who were hanged under what was a just and fair law at the time allowing capital punishment. This is now seen as 'wrong' in Australia... and is no longer allowed, yet there'll no apology there...
Contact juggling was invented by dung beetles.
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Posted:
I haven't really. I'm sorry cos I'm hoping to move on from it all.
I'm still horribly cynical about the whole ordeal. Especially considering that I think if you give compensation to people it will be more likely to go towards a house in Sydney's North Shore than to anything actually worthwhile.
I was just initially trying to be more diplomatic
Written by: tom
I didn't expect you to change your point of view from that "Declaration of native rights" thread, Rouge.
I haven't really. I'm sorry cos I'm hoping to move on from it all.
I'm still horribly cynical about the whole ordeal. Especially considering that I think if you give compensation to people it will be more likely to go towards a house in Sydney's North Shore than to anything actually worthwhile.
I was just initially trying to be more diplomatic
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
Stargazer
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Posted:
that's completely allright with me, Rouge. If we'd all be having the same opinion, we would need to close this forum.
I reckon it's kind of easy to be cynical, as long as you're not affected yourself. I understand your principle and it's not a bad one at all. Better to support the generations of today than caring for the generation of yesterday. It's a legal attempt of the young and immortal.
Hence this current generation is raised by the previous and all unhealed scars will be passed on. If you - as a nation - for once draw a line, you - as a nation - can indeed be proud of your country and have nothing to feel sorry for (already that is the case as you, yourself have not committed any of these atrocities).
It's part of the healing to ask forgiveness, this is what the process is about. Money is not the answer to those who don't care much about it, but modesty is.
[ed]I will never forget my encounter with an Australian bloke in Cairns, him asking me where I'd be from... "Ah, German - so you too know about genocide."
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1202895690)
that's completely allright with me, Rouge. If we'd all be having the same opinion, we would need to close this forum.I reckon it's kind of easy to be cynical, as long as you're not affected yourself. I understand your principle and it's not a bad one at all. Better to support the generations of today than caring for the generation of yesterday. It's a legal attempt of the young and immortal.
Hence this current generation is raised by the previous and all unhealed scars will be passed on. If you - as a nation - for once draw a line, you - as a nation - can indeed be proud of your country and have nothing to feel sorry for (already that is the case as you, yourself have not committed any of these atrocities).
It's part of the healing to ask forgiveness, this is what the process is about. Money is not the answer to those who don't care much about it, but modesty is.
[ed]I will never forget my encounter with an Australian bloke in Cairns, him asking me where I'd be from... "Ah, German - so you too know about genocide."
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1202895690)
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
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Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
I think the compensation issue is a real red herring. It's not on offer and not gonna happen.
I'm really glad of the apology. It is perfectly reasonable to say, as a Govt, that previous laws and practices were misguided. The various Govts here were not neutral or just negligent.. they actively created an enormous amount of damage by interfering in aboriginal's lives in the most clumsy and cruel ways. The vast many of those kids weren't taken because they were 'abused'. They were taken purely on skin colour as part of a eugenics approach. Then, very frequently, abused in a multitude of ways, including the exploitation of their labour.
The issue that I think DOES require urgent financial redress is the missing wages of the many Qld blacks who were sent to work by the Govt and had their (underpaid) wages put into bank accounts under the 'protection' of the local police. Records exist of it, it's all known... if you want to read about it, try The Way We Civilise by ROs Kidd, a completely calm and researched book all based on Govt records.
The bottom line is that someone like me has an easier life now cos my dad worked hard and was able to build up a business, land etc. Whereas a Qld black at the same time worked just as hard or harder but was allowed nothing for themselves, nothing to pass on... and if a woman, so often raped and the kid stolen cos it was paler than her!
Bad business.
I think the compensation issue is a real red herring. It's not on offer and not gonna happen.
I'm really glad of the apology. It is perfectly reasonable to say, as a Govt, that previous laws and practices were misguided. The various Govts here were not neutral or just negligent.. they actively created an enormous amount of damage by interfering in aboriginal's lives in the most clumsy and cruel ways. The vast many of those kids weren't taken because they were 'abused'. They were taken purely on skin colour as part of a eugenics approach. Then, very frequently, abused in a multitude of ways, including the exploitation of their labour.
The issue that I think DOES require urgent financial redress is the missing wages of the many Qld blacks who were sent to work by the Govt and had their (underpaid) wages put into bank accounts under the 'protection' of the local police. Records exist of it, it's all known... if you want to read about it, try The Way We Civilise by ROs Kidd, a completely calm and researched book all based on Govt records.
The bottom line is that someone like me has an easier life now cos my dad worked hard and was able to build up a business, land etc. Whereas a Qld black at the same time worked just as hard or harder but was allowed nothing for themselves, nothing to pass on... and if a woman, so often raped and the kid stolen cos it was paler than her!
Bad business.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
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Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Good call Fire Tom. Today has been a landmark day for all Australia’s. Finally, there is a start to the healing process that will generate equality for all Australians. Today, we can all move on, put past atrocities firmly in the past, and create a future for everyone.
Though, I’m really disappointed that the opposition leader Brendan Nelson, and others, could not put their personal opinions on hold for just one day. And for just one day, get the personal significance that a national apology holds for many in our communities.
Rouge, it’s not about money, because as you say “money can't fix the past”. We have spent vast sums of money in the past, but nothing has changed. So, it’s going to take something more than just spending money to change things.
I don’t think it’s about compensation, but as everyone seems to be afraid of compensation. Then I’ll just say, I don’t think it’s up to us to say how any compensation money should be spent, for example Funding Youth centers or whatever. After all, it was well meaning white people telling indigenous Australians how to live their lives that resulted in the generations stolen from their parents in the first place. We don’t want to go down that road again.
By the way, even the Roman Catholic church eventually realized that compensation was due to the victims they turned a blind eye to in the past.
Fire Tom, sometimes it takes someone looking from the outside to see the real situation, well said:
newgabe, that’s a fair, and often overlooked, point about unpaid wages.
Good call Fire Tom. Today has been a landmark day for all Australia’s. Finally, there is a start to the healing process that will generate equality for all Australians. Today, we can all move on, put past atrocities firmly in the past, and create a future for everyone.
Though, I’m really disappointed that the opposition leader Brendan Nelson, and others, could not put their personal opinions on hold for just one day. And for just one day, get the personal significance that a national apology holds for many in our communities.
Rouge, it’s not about money, because as you say “money can't fix the past”. We have spent vast sums of money in the past, but nothing has changed. So, it’s going to take something more than just spending money to change things.
I don’t think it’s about compensation, but as everyone seems to be afraid of compensation. Then I’ll just say, I don’t think it’s up to us to say how any compensation money should be spent, for example Funding Youth centers or whatever. After all, it was well meaning white people telling indigenous Australians how to live their lives that resulted in the generations stolen from their parents in the first place. We don’t want to go down that road again.
By the way, even the Roman Catholic church eventually realized that compensation was due to the victims they turned a blind eye to in the past.
Fire Tom, sometimes it takes someone looking from the outside to see the real situation, well said:
Written by:
Hence this current generation is raised by the previous and all unhealed scars will be passed on. If you - as a nation - for once draw a line, you - as a nation - can indeed be proud of your country and have nothing to feel sorry for (already that is the case as you, yourself have not committed any of these atrocities).
newgabe, that’s a fair, and often overlooked, point about unpaid wages.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Stargazer
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Posted:
I guess fear of demands for compensation is highly fuelled by media, politicians and industrials - only to sew the seed of hatred once more.
Don't fall for it, otherwise you might miss this chance.
Gabe, you're raising a valid point here (IMO) because most of what Australia is today, depends on the vast resources of the country (and cheap labour)...
Stone, nicely put: "We don’t want to go down that road again."
Yes, you notice that I'm pro apologising (the only bad thing about an apology is, when it doesn't come from the heart) and even pro compensation (as this is the day when you, as a descendant, can look everybody in the eye and draw the line).
Please don't mind to vent your concerns. I'm not pro "conditioned good" or mainstream thinking. An honest frown is still worth more than a fake smile.
Please help me to understand why there is still so much resistance against the apology amongst Australians. Me for my part - as a German - have developed a healthy suspicion against government- and other kind of propaganda and think it's more than okay that the German industry compensated the victims (even though the amount per head has been ridiculously low).
I for my part have lost all (inhabited) bad consciousness against Jews and did not fall into the other extreme. And for that I credit our governments policy of reconciliation. It's not perfect, but it's far better than ignorance.
I guess fear of demands for compensation is highly fuelled by media, politicians and industrials - only to sew the seed of hatred once more.
Don't fall for it, otherwise you might miss this chance.
Gabe, you're raising a valid point here (IMO) because most of what Australia is today, depends on the vast resources of the country (and cheap labour)...
Stone, nicely put: "We don’t want to go down that road again."
Yes, you notice that I'm pro apologising (the only bad thing about an apology is, when it doesn't come from the heart) and even pro compensation (as this is the day when you, as a descendant, can look everybody in the eye and draw the line).
Please don't mind to vent your concerns. I'm not pro "conditioned good" or mainstream thinking. An honest frown is still worth more than a fake smile.
Please help me to understand why there is still so much resistance against the apology amongst Australians. Me for my part - as a German - have developed a healthy suspicion against government- and other kind of propaganda and think it's more than okay that the German industry compensated the victims (even though the amount per head has been ridiculously low).
I for my part have lost all (inhabited) bad consciousness against Jews and did not fall into the other extreme. And for that I credit our governments policy of reconciliation. It's not perfect, but it's far better than ignorance.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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old hand
1,107 posts
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Australia
Posted:
I'm seriously in two minds about this, and probably unable to write coherantly at the moment (tried to log myself in a Eear for about 5 minutes today).
I was opposed, in a big way, but after seeing the reaction of the people involved, and how much they needed to hear it, I now think it was a good thing to do.
However, I don't think it's going to make a blind bit of difference to the everyday realities of life. Children of the stolen generation have been able to apply for compensation for years (notably though, children forcably removed from their white single mothers in the 40's to 60's are given jack all). Up here in QLD the families of the underpaid kanakers (cane cutters) can apply to get the held-back wages.
There is absolutely nothing to prevent anyone getting a good education and holding down a job and having a decent life in Australia, save the attitude of themselves and the people around them. I was going to insert examples of the indigenous business oweners in Mackay here but I'm hoping I don't need to justify that any more.
Rougie, it was my auntie who ran the centre, she's now chielf nun of NSW, or something. If anyone's interested it's in Mt Druitt, volunteer if you have the time and meet some of the most wonderful people in the world. (sadly, Uncle Greg, who called me Daughter and showed me more of his culture than anyone else has, died a couple of months ago, his relatives brought water and gum leaves from his trible lands near Dubbo and it was the most beautiful cross-cultural celebration of life with the full sing-sing and dancing)
I'm seriously in two minds about this, and probably unable to write coherantly at the moment (tried to log myself in a Eear for about 5 minutes today).
I was opposed, in a big way, but after seeing the reaction of the people involved, and how much they needed to hear it, I now think it was a good thing to do.
However, I don't think it's going to make a blind bit of difference to the everyday realities of life. Children of the stolen generation have been able to apply for compensation for years (notably though, children forcably removed from their white single mothers in the 40's to 60's are given jack all). Up here in QLD the families of the underpaid kanakers (cane cutters) can apply to get the held-back wages.
There is absolutely nothing to prevent anyone getting a good education and holding down a job and having a decent life in Australia, save the attitude of themselves and the people around them. I was going to insert examples of the indigenous business oweners in Mackay here but I'm hoping I don't need to justify that any more.
Rougie, it was my auntie who ran the centre, she's now chielf nun of NSW, or something. If anyone's interested it's in Mt Druitt, volunteer if you have the time and meet some of the most wonderful people in the world. (sadly, Uncle Greg, who called me Daughter and showed me more of his culture than anyone else has, died a couple of months ago, his relatives brought water and gum leaves from his trible lands near Dubbo and it was the most beautiful cross-cultural celebration of life with the full sing-sing and dancing)
There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.
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Posted:
This is about money. And appeared yesterday afternoon - before even a single day had passed!
Written by: Stone
Rouge, it’s not about money, because as you say “money can't fix the past”.
This is about money. And appeared yesterday afternoon - before even a single day had passed!
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
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Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
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Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
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Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
mmm why cant they be compensated for damages done? The Church has been compensating people for abuse done generations ago - is that all crap too?
I agree - Talk is cheap. I think Rouge's idea about spending the compo money on indig. communities has merit - but so far it seems in the last 20 years Oz has spent a fortune on the problems and they don't seem to get any better in the long term...
mmm why cant they be compensated for damages done? The Church has been compensating people for abuse done generations ago - is that all crap too?
I agree - Talk is cheap. I think Rouge's idea about spending the compo money on indig. communities has merit - but so far it seems in the last 20 years Oz has spent a fortune on the problems and they don't seem to get any better in the long term...
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
i think its an incredible complex scenario - history, stories, emotion, pain, injustice, money, families, religion, context of decisions made in the past... all rolled into one big cooking pot.
One thing i find interesting is how its been glossed over how much vehment disagreement there is within the aboriginal community regarding - well any issue at all! internal aboriginal politics is in a league of its own.
the entire "compensate individuals" or "support infrastruction, education, medical services" is a source a massive discontent.
Interestingly enough the proponents of the former has grabbed the headline over the past few days - but its certainly not an opinion by an unified mass.
I mean hey - if someone said 'have $100,000 or distribute it across the entire australia for greater good' what would you do?
by far the most eloquent, intelligent, and balanced (in my view) comments on the entire thing is the below article by Noel Pearson who actually seems to understand the complexity of the issue as opposed to the blankets statements ive seen elsewhere.
https://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23196221-28737,00.html
for those who dont know him https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noel_Pearson_%28Australian_lawyer%29
i think its an incredible complex scenario - history, stories, emotion, pain, injustice, money, families, religion, context of decisions made in the past... all rolled into one big cooking pot.
One thing i find interesting is how its been glossed over how much vehment disagreement there is within the aboriginal community regarding - well any issue at all! internal aboriginal politics is in a league of its own.
the entire "compensate individuals" or "support infrastruction, education, medical services" is a source a massive discontent.
Interestingly enough the proponents of the former has grabbed the headline over the past few days - but its certainly not an opinion by an unified mass.
I mean hey - if someone said 'have $100,000 or distribute it across the entire australia for greater good' what would you do?
by far the most eloquent, intelligent, and balanced (in my view) comments on the entire thing is the below article by Noel Pearson who actually seems to understand the complexity of the issue as opposed to the blankets statements ive seen elsewhere.
https://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23196221-28737,00.html
for those who dont know him https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noel_Pearson_%28Australian_lawyer%29
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
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Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Posted:
Quite alright Tom!
A fabulous day for Australia indeed - acknowledging the wrongs of the past and say sorry.
Very powerful and very wonderful
A very important step in the healing of this nation and one which the previous prime minister could ot have done - he didn't even have the courtesy to attend the event yesterday
Good one Kev - well done!!
EDITED_BY: Ade (1202953100)
Written by: FireTom
(disclaimer: pls make allowances to me, picking up the topic as a non-Australian. I hope it's alright with you.)
Quite alright Tom!
A fabulous day for Australia indeed - acknowledging the wrongs of the past and say sorry.
Very powerful and very wonderful
A very important step in the healing of this nation and one which the previous prime minister could ot have done - he didn't even have the courtesy to attend the event yesterday
Good one Kev - well done!!
EDITED_BY: Ade (1202953100)
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
There seems to be a great dividing range amongst Australians themselves - and it's not only about the policies towards the Aboriginal community, Dentrassi. This is the very nature of politics and democracy, I reckon...
Eera, isn't it about reading the signs? Sidenote: The term "Kanakers" reminds me strongly of "Kanake", a term in the German language, originating from Polynesian/ Hawaiian for "human". Whereas it's been historically used as a term of honour of German sailors for their Polynesian comrades (being brave and skilled) - it's been later used as a strongly derogatory term for any dark tanned foreigner.
But is it reality that anyone in Australia has equal opportunities? If I remember correctly there are still many problems with Aboriginal ppl in Australia, amongst them illiteracy (how would you let those file for refund?). ANy which way if I owe someone money I don't wait for him to come round my door to claim it.
We had inhuman laws in Germany under the Nazi regime. Ppl got convicted, deprived of their property, murdered, raped and sterilized, put into concentration camps... Legal at the times, very illegal after the war was lost. It's been learned that no matter what the (current) legislation is looking like, you can't get deprived of your basic human rights - which is a good thing IMHO.
You can't right the wrong and as a society you should at some point reconciliate with the past or it's going on forever, breeding grounds for bad consciousness and social unrest, wouldn't you agree?
So they are calling for compensation - which doesn't mean they'll get it. I understand why some of you are scared: 100.000 ppl - imagine everyone gets 100.000$... a lot of money (in numbers: 10.000.000.000$ - which would be 476$ for each individual Australian...). That's a strong blow against a nations economy.
At the same time:
There seems to be a great dividing range amongst Australians themselves - and it's not only about the policies towards the Aboriginal community, Dentrassi. This is the very nature of politics and democracy, I reckon...
Eera, isn't it about reading the signs? Sidenote: The term "Kanakers" reminds me strongly of "Kanake", a term in the German language, originating from Polynesian/ Hawaiian for "human". Whereas it's been historically used as a term of honour of German sailors for their Polynesian comrades (being brave and skilled) - it's been later used as a strongly derogatory term for any dark tanned foreigner.
But is it reality that anyone in Australia has equal opportunities? If I remember correctly there are still many problems with Aboriginal ppl in Australia, amongst them illiteracy (how would you let those file for refund?). ANy which way if I owe someone money I don't wait for him to come round my door to claim it.
Written by: AP reporter (published with CNN)
Australia's original inhabitants, Aborigines number about 450,000 among a population of 21 million. Aborigines are the poorest ethnic group in Australia and are most likely to be jailed, unemployed and illiterate.
Australia has had a decade-long debate about how best to acknowledge Aborigines who were affected by a string of 20th century policies that separated mixed-blood Aboriginal children from their families -- the cohort frequently referred to as Australia's stolen generation.
From 1910 until the 1970s, around 100,000 mostly mixed-blood Aboriginal children were taken from their parents under state and federal laws based on a premise that Aborigines were a doomed race and saving the children was a humane alternative.
A national inquiry in 1997 found that many children taken from their families suffered long-term psychological effects stemming from the loss of family and culture.
We had inhuman laws in Germany under the Nazi regime. Ppl got convicted, deprived of their property, murdered, raped and sterilized, put into concentration camps... Legal at the times, very illegal after the war was lost. It's been learned that no matter what the (current) legislation is looking like, you can't get deprived of your basic human rights - which is a good thing IMHO.
You can't right the wrong and as a society you should at some point reconciliate with the past or it's going on forever, breeding grounds for bad consciousness and social unrest, wouldn't you agree?
So they are calling for compensation - which doesn't mean they'll get it. I understand why some of you are scared: 100.000 ppl - imagine everyone gets 100.000$... a lot of money (in numbers: 10.000.000.000$ - which would be 476$ for each individual Australian...). That's a strong blow against a nations economy.
At the same time:
Written by: [url=https://www.dfat.gov.au/aib/competitive_economy.htmlthe best smiles are the ones you lead to
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Rouge, today the story in the Age is The courage to apologise and to forgive
Whatever, there has been a shift, and we have turned the corner. There is no going back. Sure some will call for individual handouts, and other will condemn them. But as Noel Pearson puts it:
I think what Noel says cuts both ways. If people make it about compensation, then those people who feel entitled to compensation, and those who are worried about loosing a few bucks, will never be able to move on.
Thanks for the link Dentrassi. I think Noel Pearson is one person who brings the voice of reason to the table.
Rouge, today the story in the Age is The courage to apologise and to forgive
Written by:
The saying of these few words in our national Parliament does open the bridge to the future, a future we can share, a future we can shape, a future we shall achieve if we have the courage. For the first time in many years the resolution of the unfinished business between us seems possible. What greater achievement could we bequeath to our children than a nation united where its indigenous people and their cultures, laws and languages are central to the foundations of the nation state?
Whatever, there has been a shift, and we have turned the corner. There is no going back. Sure some will call for individual handouts, and other will condemn them. But as Noel Pearson puts it:
Written by:
But who will be able to move on after tomorrow's apology? Most white Australians will be able to move on (with the warm inner glow that will come from having said sorry), but I doubt indigenous Australians will. Those people stolen from their families who feel entitled to compensation will never be able to move on.
Too many will be condemned to harbour a sense of injustice for the rest of their lives. Far from moving on, these people -- whose lives have been much consumed by this issue -- will die with a sense of unresolved justice.
One of my misgivings about the apology has been my belief that nothing good will come from viewing ourselves, and making our case on the basis of our status, as victims.
We have been -- and the people who lost their families certainly were -- victimised in history, but we must stop the politics of victimhood. We lose power when we adopt this psychology. Whatever moral power we might gain over white Australia from presenting ourselves as victims, we lose in ourselves.
I think what Noel says cuts both ways. If people make it about compensation, then those people who feel entitled to compensation, and those who are worried about loosing a few bucks, will never be able to move on.
Thanks for the link Dentrassi. I think Noel Pearson is one person who brings the voice of reason to the table.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
I thought this interactive Reconciliation Timeline that goes back to Federation, was worth posting
I thought this interactive Reconciliation Timeline that goes back to Federation, was worth posting
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Posted:
nice one onthe timeline Stone, very interesting
nice one onthe timeline Stone, very interesting
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
News this morning (channel 9) said there's already a compensation case making its way to court.
Ungrateful.
Selfish.
Don't want it to be all over so we can move on.
Maintaining the rage.
(see Tom, told you I hadn't changed my opinion and was just being diplomatic )
News this morning (channel 9) said there's already a compensation case making its way to court.
Ungrateful.
Selfish.
Don't want it to be all over so we can move on.
Maintaining the rage.
(see Tom, told you I hadn't changed my opinion and was just being diplomatic
) i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
SILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Posted:
Ungrateful?
Selfish?
wanting redress after being systematically discrimated against and lives torn apart...I'd call that something other than selfish and ungrateful
compensation claims were started before the apology and will continue after the apology - and rightly so
The apology was the symbolism we needed to move forward
compensation is a practical way of redressing past wrongs
other funding will hopefully be a way of preveting future wrongs
I have no problem with giving people a leg up who were taken away from their culture, their families, their country
Written by: Rouge Dragon
News this morning (channel 9) said there's already a compensation case making its way to court.
Ungrateful.
Selfish.
Don't want it to be all over so we can move on.
Maintaining the rage.
(see Tom, told you I hadn't changed my opinion and was just being diplomatic
Ungrateful?
Selfish?
wanting redress after being systematically discrimated against and lives torn apart...I'd call that something other than selfish and ungrateful
compensation claims were started before the apology and will continue after the apology - and rightly so
The apology was the symbolism we needed to move forward
compensation is a practical way of redressing past wrongs
other funding will hopefully be a way of preveting future wrongs
I have no problem with giving people a leg up who were taken away from their culture, their families, their country
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
I see that it's selfish because the money could be better used on the current aboriginal children. What are the adults going to spend it on? Single Malt Scotch, most likely. That they'll drink in their new clothes. On the veranda of their million-dollar home they can now afford.
and yes, they happened before, but you can be sure there will be more now!
"sorry" was supposed to redress past wrongs.
"sorry" was supposed to make us move forward as friends.
"sorry" was supposed to heal.
Apologies are what heal.
Money doesn't heal. It's just greed.
I see that it's selfish because the money could be better used on the current aboriginal children. What are the adults going to spend it on? Single Malt Scotch, most likely. That they'll drink in their new clothes. On the veranda of their million-dollar home they can now afford.
and yes, they happened before, but you can be sure there will be more now!
"sorry" was supposed to redress past wrongs.
"sorry" was supposed to make us move forward as friends.
"sorry" was supposed to heal.
Apologies are what heal.
Money doesn't heal. It's just greed.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
Rouge, our whole economic system is based on money / litigation and compensation. Insurance companies certainly put a dollar value on pain and suffering. You cant blame Indig people for trying to enter that realm when they've already been forced to enter other terrible areas of white behaviour / belief.
If someone cut off your leg, would an apology heal it? I say it again, Talk is cheap - action is whats needed.
I think $476 per person would be a cheap way out - if it was accepted by both sides as the final action in reconciliation.
I pay MUCH more than $476 per year in tax...as does most tax payers. Currently we are in surplus and riding on a resources driven boom. We could certainly afford that.
Rouge, our whole economic system is based on money / litigation and compensation. Insurance companies certainly put a dollar value on pain and suffering. You cant blame Indig people for trying to enter that realm when they've already been forced to enter other terrible areas of white behaviour / belief.
If someone cut off your leg, would an apology heal it? I say it again, Talk is cheap - action is whats needed.
I think $476 per person would be a cheap way out - if it was accepted by both sides as the final action in reconciliation.
I pay MUCH more than $476 per year in tax...as does most tax payers. Currently we are in surplus and riding on a resources driven boom. We could certainly afford that.
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
rougie thats an appalling stereotype you've used there.
from what ive seem - aboriginal families give far more respect to the value of communities and mutual support than us whities.
If i won lotto - would i keep it myself? hell no - id help my bro and sister with their mortgages, spend cash towards respective kids/nephews/neices education. im guessing most of the stolen are at least in their 50s by now? we're not talking about kids in their late teens who are going to waste in on cocaine and versace, its elderly people who have extended family and community networks.
i mean it wont be perfect - theres always exceptions - there will be those who squander on frivilous excesses sure - but i dont think its a fair generalisation that all will squander it on whisky and million dollar houses.
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1203035229)
rougie thats an appalling stereotype you've used there.
from what ive seem - aboriginal families give far more respect to the value of communities and mutual support than us whities.
If i won lotto - would i keep it myself? hell no - id help my bro and sister with their mortgages, spend cash towards respective kids/nephews/neices education. im guessing most of the stolen are at least in their 50s by now? we're not talking about kids in their late teens who are going to waste in on cocaine and versace, its elderly people who have extended family and community networks.
i mean it wont be perfect - theres always exceptions - there will be those who squander on frivilous excesses sure - but i dont think its a fair generalisation that all will squander it on whisky and million dollar houses.
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1203035229)
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
And I hate the fact that we're turning into a litigious society where noone takes responsibility for their own actions anymore. Just because it's our system doesn't make is RIGHT. Which is exactly what was said about the so-called "stolen generation"; just because it was government policy didn't make it RIGHT.
And they're asking for a lot more than three-figures!!!
And I hate the fact that we're turning into a litigious society where noone takes responsibility for their own actions anymore. Just because it's our system doesn't make is RIGHT. Which is exactly what was said about the so-called "stolen generation"; just because it was government policy didn't make it RIGHT.
And they're asking for a lot more than three-figures!!!
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
I'm not saying that all do that. But I'm saying that's what money hungry people do.
Money hungry people. Not aboriginal people.
I think of the people who are calling for compensation to help themselves fix something that can't be fixed instead of helping the community as money hungry people.
yes, community minded people do do wonderful things. but they're generally not the people who are trying to win court cases to fill their own pockets.
Written by: Dentrassi
rougie thats an appalling stereotype you've used there.
from what ive seem - aboriginal families give far more respect to the value of communities and mutual support than us whities.
If i won lotto - would i keep it myself? hell no - id help my bro and sister with their mortgages, spend cash towards respective kids/nephews/neices education. im guessing most of the stolen are at least in their 50s by now? we're not talking about kids in their late teens who are going to waste in on cocaine and versace, its elderly people who have extended family and community networks.
i mean it wont be perfect - theres always exceptions - tthere will be those who squander on frivilous excesses sure - but i dont think its a fair generalisation.
I'm not saying that all do that. But I'm saying that's what money hungry people do.
Money hungry people. Not aboriginal people.
I think of the people who are calling for compensation to help themselves fix something that can't be fixed instead of helping the community as money hungry people.
yes, community minded people do do wonderful things. but they're generally not the people who are trying to win court cases to fill their own pockets.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
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