Forums > Social Chat > Smoking claims another life
Login/Join to ParticipatePooh-Bah
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land
Posted:
Ok I smoke.. I don't like really smokey clubs, but surely a complete ban on smoking in public places is a infringment of civil liberties? I know its an each to their own kinda topic.. but I think it's so sad that it's come to this..
very sad..
NYC - hunny (and others in NY) what are your views? Do you smoke? Whats the news on it where you are?
[ 16. April 2003, 05:11: Message edited by: MisStix* ]
Ok I smoke.. I don't like really smokey clubs, but surely a complete ban on smoking in public places is a infringment of civil liberties? I know its an each to their own kinda topic.. but I think it's so sad that it's come to this..
very sad..
NYC - hunny (and others in NY) what are your views? Do you smoke? Whats the news on it where you are?
[ 16. April 2003, 05:11: Message edited by: MisStix* ]
I honour you as an aspect of myself..
You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..
old hand
829 posts
Location: Brigadoon
829 posts
Location: Brigadoon
Posted:
the land of the free is it?
the land of the free is it?
wherever you go, there you are.
member
85 posts
Location: Cheshire
85 posts
Location: Cheshire
Posted:
I am amused, but not suprised. (Coughs heartily).
<<<< Should he be banned from HoP? It might rub it in for NYC and the like!!
EDIT: It's Jim again, on lil sis' PC.
I am amused, but not suprised. (Coughs heartily).
<<<< Should he be banned from HoP? It might rub it in for NYC and the like!!
EDIT: It's Jim again, on lil sis' PC.
High Class Hippy #5'One day i WILL own a VW Campervan''i'll sell a liver, u can live with just one, cant u?'Jebus...Jebus
HoP Mechanical Engineer
729 posts
Location: OK, USA
729 posts
Location: OK, USA
Posted:
What you have to realize is this situation is kind of an either/or deal where on the one hand, there's people who want to smoke and are used to doing it in a public place. On the other side, you have people who do not enjoy smoking and their experience at a club, bar, restaurant, whatever is diminished by the presence of fumes they don't want to deal with. Who should see their "rights" taken more into account?
These fumes don't stay in their designated areas and so partitioning an establishment in that manner has proven ineffective. What to do then?
Does the majority of the population smoke? I doubt it. Is smoke known to be harmful? Unless you're an absolute idiot, you have to acknowledge that fact. Should I have to put up with it when I go out? That's when things become fuzzy.
I feel the smoking ban is entirely justified, because smokers are in the minority, their club experience is diminished only insofar as they have to step outside for a moment to smoke, and regulating something harmful is entirely legal and infringes on no one's rights.
Smoke irritates my asthma and is very unpleasant for me to deal with, so I definitely think this ban is a good idea. Does having to smoke outside hurt you smokers as much as it hurts me to breathe with the smoke you produce hanging in the air?
The good of the many generally outweighs the good of the few, in situations such as this. A club without smoke is hospitable to the non-smoking patrons the entire night, whereas a club allowing smoke is hospitable to smokers all night. A club with no smoking only hurts smokers for a few minutes each cigarette, whereas a club allowing smoke disturbs non-smokers the entire evening.
Killing a bouncer over this issue is the most idiotically tragic thing I have ever heard. Personal opinions aside, this man failed to obey a law, and when the bouncer stepped in to enforce the policy, he and his friends killed him. He is not some valiant defender of rights, or some rebel acting out against an oppressive policy, he is a murderer that should be punished to the full extent the law allows.
What you have to realize is this situation is kind of an either/or deal where on the one hand, there's people who want to smoke and are used to doing it in a public place. On the other side, you have people who do not enjoy smoking and their experience at a club, bar, restaurant, whatever is diminished by the presence of fumes they don't want to deal with. Who should see their "rights" taken more into account?
These fumes don't stay in their designated areas and so partitioning an establishment in that manner has proven ineffective. What to do then?
Does the majority of the population smoke? I doubt it. Is smoke known to be harmful? Unless you're an absolute idiot, you have to acknowledge that fact. Should I have to put up with it when I go out? That's when things become fuzzy.
I feel the smoking ban is entirely justified, because smokers are in the minority, their club experience is diminished only insofar as they have to step outside for a moment to smoke, and regulating something harmful is entirely legal and infringes on no one's rights.
Smoke irritates my asthma and is very unpleasant for me to deal with, so I definitely think this ban is a good idea. Does having to smoke outside hurt you smokers as much as it hurts me to breathe with the smoke you produce hanging in the air?
The good of the many generally outweighs the good of the few, in situations such as this. A club without smoke is hospitable to the non-smoking patrons the entire night, whereas a club allowing smoke is hospitable to smokers all night. A club with no smoking only hurts smokers for a few minutes each cigarette, whereas a club allowing smoke disturbs non-smokers the entire evening.
Killing a bouncer over this issue is the most idiotically tragic thing I have ever heard. Personal opinions aside, this man failed to obey a law, and when the bouncer stepped in to enforce the policy, he and his friends killed him. He is not some valiant defender of rights, or some rebel acting out against an oppressive policy, he is a murderer that should be punished to the full extent the law allows.
What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.
member
65 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, California
65 posts
Location: Santa Cruz, California
Posted:
Just recently, the college where I work in California actually banned smoking outside...within 20 feet of windows/doorways. Overall, Cali's anti-smoking laws are very strict, unless you find a cool bartender who doesn't care.
I think that no matter what your addiction or vice, you don't have the right to invade someone else's space. I'm a chronic pot smoker..so in some ways that makes me a hypocrite, but I tend to smoke in my own home (ie. no harmful second hand smoke) and I *never* smoke pot around children. I am shocked at how many parents I've seen smoking in their car with the windows rolled up and a child in the car seat!
Just recently, the college where I work in California actually banned smoking outside...within 20 feet of windows/doorways. Overall, Cali's anti-smoking laws are very strict, unless you find a cool bartender who doesn't care.
I think that no matter what your addiction or vice, you don't have the right to invade someone else's space. I'm a chronic pot smoker..so in some ways that makes me a hypocrite, but I tend to smoke in my own home (ie. no harmful second hand smoke) and I *never* smoke pot around children. I am shocked at how many parents I've seen smoking in their car with the windows rolled up and a child in the car seat!
The experience of learning is living.
SILVER Member
addict
669 posts
Location: Lancashire, UK
addict
669 posts
Location: Lancashire, UK
Posted:
@ the story! IMHO people should be allowed to what ever they want as long as they aren't harming others (against their will ), so non-smoking places are only fair - but smoking areas should also be provided. Smoking seems to be a fading vice, so it fits that there are less and less places to smoke. As for banning smoking outside, that's a bit over the top. Unless there's hundreds of people smoking 20 ciggies a time!!
Edit: I quit Marlboro's nearly 5months ago & going strong, I don't miss the coughing & lack of energy
[ 16. April 2003, 12:46: Message edited by: Fire*Morph ]
@ the story! IMHO people should be allowed to what ever they want as long as they aren't harming others (against their will ), so non-smoking places are only fair - but smoking areas should also be provided. Smoking seems to be a fading vice, so it fits that there are less and less places to smoke. As for banning smoking outside, that's a bit over the top. Unless there's hundreds of people smoking 20 ciggies a time!!
Edit: I quit Marlboro's nearly 5months ago & going strong, I don't miss the coughing & lack of energy
[ 16. April 2003, 12:46: Message edited by: Fire*Morph ]
SILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
My uncle came out here from France recently. He smokes quite a bit, always has, despite trying to give up a few times. But now, in France, he has settled into a life where most of the people around him smoke, and it is perfectly acceptable.
He found Australia very difficult to deal with. People do smoke here, but smoking is frowned upon in a lot of places, literally. Non-smokers have the backing of the law in most places if they ask you to put out a cigarette.
Quick explanation of current smoke-free legislation:
[ 16. April 2003, 12:18: Message edited by: Rozi ]
My uncle came out here from France recently. He smokes quite a bit, always has, despite trying to give up a few times. But now, in France, he has settled into a life where most of the people around him smoke, and it is perfectly acceptable.
He found Australia very difficult to deal with. People do smoke here, but smoking is frowned upon in a lot of places, literally. Non-smokers have the backing of the law in most places if they ask you to put out a cigarette.
Quick explanation of current smoke-free legislation:
quote:Quick explanation of scheduled amendments to the legislation:
Smoke-free public places legislation
Smoke-free public places legislation has been enacted in all Australian states as well as the Australian Capital Territory. At the time of writing (June 2001) the Northern Territory was the only Australian jurisdiction not to have enacted such legislation.
In NSW the Smoke-free Environment Act 2000 prohibits smoking in a wide range of enclosed public places. Some examples of such places are restaurants, shopping centres, educational institutions and entertainment venues. More detailed information about the Act can be found in The Cancer Council NSW publication When smoke gets in your eyes (nose, throat, lungs and bloodstream) – A guide to passive smoking and the law in NSW.
Apparent breaches of the Smoke-free Environment Act 2000 can be reported by contacting the NSW Health Department on 9391 9000.
Other legislation
In addition to the legislation already described, all states and territories of Australia have legislation in place that restricts or prohibits smoking at a range of specific locations. Examples include transport, lifts, food preparations areas, child-care centres, correctional centres and libraries. For more information on other legislation in NSW go to The Cancer Council NSW publication When smoke gets in your eyes (nose, throat, lungs and bloodstream) – A guide to passive smoking and the law in NSW.
quote:I don't have a problem with it, I don't smoke. However, whilst I enjoy going into a restaurant which is basically non-smoking, I kinda wonder if the bar thing isn't going a little far. I accept that if I go into a pub, people are going to be smoking.
Share the Air
Extending non-smoking areas in licensed venues
In December 2002 a milestone agreement was reached between the hospitality industry, union representatives and New South Wales Government to extend non-smoking areas in licensed premises.
The terms of the agreement are as follows:
By July 2003
No smoking at bar or service counters
A designated non-smoking area within at least one bar area
By July 2004
One full non-smoking bar in venues with more than one bar
One non-smoking recreational or gambling area where more than one of each exists in a venue
A campaign entitled Share the Air will be conducted between March and June 2003 to inform proprietors and the general community of these new requirements.
[ 16. April 2003, 12:18: Message edited by: Rozi ]
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
GOLD Member
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Now with extra strawberries
810 posts
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posted:
i think it is people should be aloud to smoke out side in public but not in cirtin places, cos at my school your alowd to smoke outside but everey one smokes outside an airconditioning vent so in the end the smoke is all through the school any way , we asked the priceble to make this a no smoking area but he dosent listen.
missie
i think it is people should be aloud to smoke out side in public but not in cirtin places, cos at my school your alowd to smoke outside but everey one smokes outside an airconditioning vent so in the end the smoke is all through the school any way , we asked the priceble to make this a no smoking area but he dosent listen.
missie
I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
i think a ban in all public areas is a little extreme. However as a non smoker I hafta admit to moving if i'm sitting on a bench and someone sits next to me and lights up. Not because i think its evil or anything, but because i don't want my clothes to stink of it. On the other hand i think enforcing a ban in all pubs and clubs is a bit excessive, indoors in a privately owned place with a public liscence is a bit different to a railway station.
i think a ban in all public areas is a little extreme. However as a non smoker I hafta admit to moving if i'm sitting on a bench and someone sits next to me and lights up. Not because i think its evil or anything, but because i don't want my clothes to stink of it. On the other hand i think enforcing a ban in all pubs and clubs is a bit excessive, indoors in a privately owned place with a public liscence is a bit different to a railway station.
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
Ignoring my opinion about smoking for now, I think it's utterly ridiculous that the no smoking campaign was blamed for that stabbing.
If a man is willing to stab someone for trying to throw him out of a bar, it's not likely to matter why he's being thrown out, he'll probably still pull a knife whatever.
Anyway, back to the question. My opinion is that people should be allowed to do pretty much whatever they feel like somewhere it doesn't effect anyone else. That'd mean that smoking in a pub, or any other enclosed space would be a no-no, but you could smoke 80 a day in your home if you really felt like it.
Basically, I don't see why I should suffer because someone else is pumping out smoke that drifts around and gets everywhere.
Ignoring my opinion about smoking for now, I think it's utterly ridiculous that the no smoking campaign was blamed for that stabbing.
If a man is willing to stab someone for trying to throw him out of a bar, it's not likely to matter why he's being thrown out, he'll probably still pull a knife whatever.
Anyway, back to the question. My opinion is that people should be allowed to do pretty much whatever they feel like somewhere it doesn't effect anyone else. That'd mean that smoking in a pub, or any other enclosed space would be a no-no, but you could smoke 80 a day in your home if you really felt like it.
Basically, I don't see why I should suffer because someone else is pumping out smoke that drifts around and gets everywhere.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Quantum Theorist
564 posts
Location: Vansterdam
564 posts
Location: Vansterdam
Posted:
well they've done it in some parts of Canada, including where I live. there are even outdoor areas where you can't. But then again I live in the only fascist prov in Canada. The UN is bitching about human rights infringment in BC.
well they've done it in some parts of Canada, including where I live. there are even outdoor areas where you can't. But then again I live in the only fascist prov in Canada. The UN is bitching about human rights infringment in BC.
In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird, now the world is weird and they take prozac to make it normal again.
member
279 posts
Location: Bath, UK
279 posts
Location: Bath, UK
Posted:
Some smokers seem to think they have the right to pollute other people's air. If they'd been more considerate in the first place the ban wouldn't have been needed.
Some smokers seem to think they have the right to pollute other people's air. If they'd been more considerate in the first place the ban wouldn't have been needed.
Magnus... pay it forward
AnonymousPLATINUM Member
Posted:
I agree - I hate coming home after going out to a pub smelling like an ashtray.
I dont mind people smoking, as long as it doesnt affect me. If you can contain it, or something, I'm cool with it.
(I still dont understand it, I mean there are far more interesting things you could be smoking...but thats another topic)
Josh
I agree - I hate coming home after going out to a pub smelling like an ashtray.
I dont mind people smoking, as long as it doesnt affect me. If you can contain it, or something, I'm cool with it.
(I still dont understand it, I mean there are far more interesting things you could be smoking...but thats another topic)
Josh
member
234 posts
Location: Oceanside, California USA
234 posts
Location: Oceanside, California USA
Posted:
smoking inside has been banned from California for a long time. However, a smoking area is always provided.. Now I'm spoiled and if I'm outside the state (or in somewhere where the rules are lax), My eyes burn and it ruins the whole night. Many smokers I know are happy about the rule and don't want to be in a room full of smoke either. As to the guy who stabbed the bouncer, he could've been set off for anything it seems.. That incident shouldn't change any bit of the enforcement. Besides, in California (so I assume NY too?) an owner (or staff) can call the cops on someone who refuses to request to smoke outside. That eliminates the need for the bouncer to put himself in danger... If a buisness doesn't obey the law on a regular basis, they get a very painfull fine.. Hopefully that will be the only case we hear of where somwone puts a life over their cigarette.
smoking inside has been banned from California for a long time. However, a smoking area is always provided.. Now I'm spoiled and if I'm outside the state (or in somewhere where the rules are lax), My eyes burn and it ruins the whole night. Many smokers I know are happy about the rule and don't want to be in a room full of smoke either. As to the guy who stabbed the bouncer, he could've been set off for anything it seems.. That incident shouldn't change any bit of the enforcement. Besides, in California (so I assume NY too?) an owner (or staff) can call the cops on someone who refuses to request to smoke outside. That eliminates the need for the bouncer to put himself in danger... If a buisness doesn't obey the law on a regular basis, they get a very painfull fine.. Hopefully that will be the only case we hear of where somwone puts a life over their cigarette.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Oops... I missed this thread for a while... sorry.
Firstly, that's a pretty ignorant article. So if a bouncer is killed trying to stop a patron from being raped would the author suggest that we legalize rape?
As far as banning smoking, I'm all for it. It's about time. Smoking kills people slowly and painfully and drugs them into wanting more. And I sure-as-heck shouldn't have to breathe it. I still don't understand why someone can stand on a public street and breathe smoke at me yet I can't mace them back.
Oops... I missed this thread for a while... sorry.
Firstly, that's a pretty ignorant article. So if a bouncer is killed trying to stop a patron from being raped would the author suggest that we legalize rape?
As far as banning smoking, I'm all for it. It's about time. Smoking kills people slowly and painfully and drugs them into wanting more. And I sure-as-heck shouldn't have to breathe it. I still don't understand why someone can stand on a public street and breathe smoke at me yet I can't mace them back.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
44 posts
Location: Chippenham, Wiltshire. England
44 posts
Location: Chippenham, Wiltshire. England
Posted:
I work at a bar 3 nights a week I don't mind people smoking in the pub/club but not at the bar. I don't smoke. well not unless it has something extra in it but I don’t like it when a 3 or 4 people are in front of you blowing smoke in your general direction and there is nothing you can do about it.
Just my view on the matter
I work at a bar 3 nights a week I don't mind people smoking in the pub/club but not at the bar. I don't smoke. well not unless it has something extra in it but I don’t like it when a 3 or 4 people are in front of you blowing smoke in your general direction and there is nothing you can do about it.
Just my view on the matter
Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far!
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