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Posted: 2nd May 2001
good point ykaterina. Most Christians can be VERY close minded. Yet in the Bible it says "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another (John 13:35)." is racism and biggotry love. Christians should be the most open and accepting of people no matter what people may look and act like it. I am sorry to say that not all of us are that open. It is really sad. We, like redbrother said, are sometimes even judging of ourselves which just destroys the church and drives many people away. It is a sad story indeed. One I hope to have some part in changing.

Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire

Posted: 2nd May 2001
Soory to get a little off topic there, just had to add my two cents. I think the media just likes to blow things up to improve ratings. I had two friends caught up in the media right after Columbine. These guys were clean as a whistle but got caught with a few fire crackers and now one is a convicted felon. The media had them on the school grounds with several pipe bombs, drugs and alcohol. Lies. I would trust those guys with my life, even now. but hey the media seems to just care about rating and being controversial than on facts.

Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire

Posted: 3rd May 2001
nono - talljuggler, you're exactly right, and that was a huge part of my point. i mean, it's not like i don't know this shit - i have a degree in it and can quote chapter and verse till i'm blue in the face. but you hit the nail right on the head - just cause it's written there doesn't mean they get it. it's more like, "love everyone as long as they have your label". at one point, one of you two wrote something about jesus hanging out with the lowlife types. it's like that, ya know? but they don't see it. besides, there's enough bad in there to distract them from the high points.anyway. it's all lame entirely, but like it or not, the religious right is running the show these days unless we do something to stop it. where we == everyone who thinks they're on crack, including the christians who try to have a brain, instead of just fitting into their mold.but hey, what do i know? i just answer the reporters when they call and try to act "normal" so i don't get my sis-in-law in trouble , while she goes to church and tells herself it's not just cause she wants the church-going votes. and we worry about the media![This message has been edited by ykaterina (edited 04 May 2001).][This message has been edited by ykaterina (edited 04 May 2001).]

Posted: 3rd May 2001
Whew, nothing gets people's blood a boilin' quite like religion, eh? Luckily everyone here is liberal enough that we're not telling each other we're going to hell or trying to turn each other into frogs or what not.But look around the world. Even if we eliminate racism, even if all the races interbreed until we are all the same color, people will hate and kill each other for their religious differences!The problem with the peace and love message of Christianity is that it is counter-balanced by the God-sponsored bloodbath of the old testament. If you're a Christian you can choose to follow either book and still justify in your mind that you're earning your slot in heaven. You can shoot an abortion clinic doctor in the head or work a soupline for the homeless and still be doing God's work.I'm not slamming anyone's religious beliefs here. I'm just pointing out a fact. This religion is wide open to interpretation. That's why it's so damn popular. I live in a city with more churches per capita that almost any other place and believe me you, every Sunday there are preachers spreading messages of love and there are preachers sowing the seeds of hate.But I just think that's the way things are supposed to be - the whole duality of nature thing. Yin and Yang. Skye

Posted: 3rd May 2001
Skye,Preech on.I couldn't have said it better If I tried.In some ways the world needs evil, because if there was no evil, what would good be judged upon?------------------Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Posted: 3rd May 2001
*reads skye's post*oh.*dumps contents of cauldron and shuffles back to work.*

Posted: 3rd May 2001
Pele; I know how you feel. I'm reading this thread while NPR radio has a couple of imbeciles, I mean senetors arguing about the federal education program. ok, they want ?WHAT? out of the schools? it looks to me like they want our kids to fit in a little tiny box; answering questions and acting like good little robots. and then people ask what the hell is wrong with us.the problem isnt us. it's this damn lack of individuality that so pervasive and pushed by the media and govermental systems as a means to control. I wish I had a solution, as I'm not interested in being involved in a witch hunt. I know I'd be on the recieving end too.

Posted: 3rd May 2001
If you treat poeple like children who can't make decisions for them selves, guess how they will act? Start treating people with respect and giving them responsibility will help them mature and learn. SURE, there is a bad apple in every barrel but that dosen't mean the rest are bad and should be punished.

Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire

Posted: 4th May 2001
Just want to pipe up and mention that most of what ykaterina said for paganism holds true for being gay/bi/less too... (oh yes, a whole new can of worms).Just don't understand how people can be perfectly fine with another assumed-straight person, but if it's disclosed they're not, it's like they've grown horns, a tail, hoofed feet, and have obtained an express elevator to Hell. All in 3 words. *shakes head*Ridiculous.I guess that's the main thing that grates on my nerves… Not only the process of labelling, but that if one’s all quiet and secretive they may even pass for a “respectable citizen”. Bah humbug! Skye, sad to say but it looks true, that if we eliminate one form of prejudice, there’s plenty of other differences to fuel the zealot fire. Diversity’s great, but the attitude towards it could be (imho) better. On a brighter note though, hopefully tolerance - if not acceptance - will get easier with practise.

Posted: 4th May 2001
yeah, emthren. it's so true. i volunteer for GLAD in new england - gay and lesbian advocates and defenders - and we just helped get some legislation passed in RI about including transgendered ppl in the non-discrimination laws. and i'm reading this law...which defines "gender identity or expression" as including: "a person's actual or perceived gender, as well as a person's gender identity, self-image, appearance, expression or behavior, whether or not that gender identity, self-image, appearance, expression, or behavior is different than that traditionally associated with the person's sex at birth..."and i'm thinking - this is bullshit! i mean, i can't *believe* we're writing something like this. just look at how ridiculous that looks! and read it outloud - it sounds nuts! i mean, we shouldn't have to tell people to be nice to other people just cause they don't dress the same or act the same or whatever as we do. makeup, for example, is unnatural - we're changing our appearance when we wear it. so why is that ok for girls and not for boys and why do we need a law about it?? if we would just stop making everything so complicated, and just live...