Page:
Analemmaenthusiast
384 posts
Location: West LA


Posted:
The topic of Poi becoming mainstream, a form of competition or the connection between Poi and money seems to concern spinners. On the other hand some are dreaming of Poi becoming a recognised dance/art or even an olympic discipline.

My question: Where do you see Poi in the Future and what do you think would be the positive/negative characteristics of it?!?

Just some brainstorming . . .

To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .


vanizeSILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA


Posted:
fraknkly I don't see it going much further than other forms of juggling or perhaps belly dancing.



the positive and negative characteristics of more exposure to poi have been discussed at length before (and there was a whole thread just on poi in the olympics). I'm in the camp that vaguely regrets it becoming somewhat mundane, but loves fniding more and more spinners all over enough to be more happy about its spread than sad.



It does neccisarly lead to more (legal and self-policing) regulation of fire performers in general though - since only most fire performers are responsible about it, and there will always be some yahoos among us being too wild and wreckless and performing at inaapropriate locations. If there are only handful of fire performers in a city - no need for regulation. if there are 50 or 200 (many large cities have these numbers and more), then it is too high profile to fly under the police and fire marshal's radar any longer, especially when too many of those are newbies who think they can start busking when all they know is the weave and have no clue as to local laws.



Which leads me to the point that the larger the fire community grows, the more it has to self regulate.



I understand guilds and why they exist much better now.



but that does not apply to non-fire poi, which is what I was refering to with juggling/belly dancing analogy.

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!


ben-ja-menGOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia


Posted:
i hope that poi extends into schools as i think it would be great for kids for getting better hand eye coordination and if it was integrated and guided in such a way that poi communitys formed that where all age encompasing and promoted the ideas of respect and humility from a young age that the art from would grow much faster, especially as children have so much time to practise.

i think it would also be especially good for children who are lacking in social skills as by practising alot they will become good and be able to share their skills with other children hence building friendship networks

I think it would eventually result in a wonderful fire community once the kids where old enough to safely spin fire. i personally love the idea of all the spinning arts becoming mainstream in a structured safe environment and really dont understand what ppl have against it

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
I would hate people being forced to learn it..

that would be rubbish...

rolleyes

FacelessjokerBRONZE Member
enthusiast
249 posts
Location: Exeter, United Kingdom


Posted:
^ditto.
purely coz i hated school and being forced to learn topics i hated.
Learning in school tends to have a negative light seeing as alot of kids would rather being doing something else.

PyroWillGOLD Member
HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
4,437 posts
Location: Staines, United Kingdom


Posted:
I have no idea how i feel on this matter, there are currently 15,552 members on HoP and in my experience about a fifth of fire spinners in the world are on HoP maybe less but just saying a fifth means there are at least 77,760 spinners in the world, thats a fair few but over twice as many died in the Tsunami, imagine if in the space of a few hours the whole spinning community got wiped out, makes you think, sorry i know this is offtopic

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian


The Real Fryed FishGod's illgitament son
1,489 posts
Location: state of confusion


Posted:
and now for a more upbeat thought wink

i think the growing popularity in the fire arts is a good thing, think about how many people you have become frineds with jsut becasue of the fire..........if you are going somewere and a fire artist lives in or around that area, chances are you have a place to stay, now granted with it becoming more popular there will be problems, like the afore mentioned twits that will not take safty into consideration, but its our responsibility as fire performers to make sure that happens in only rare casses

(that was still a good point pyro)

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too


vanizeSILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA


Posted:
tis true - I love my poi and fire friends, and looking forward to assimilating many more in the future!

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!


PyroWillGOLD Member
HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
4,437 posts
Location: Staines, United Kingdom


Posted:
Yeh but there are some of the fore mentioned 'twits' that we just pat on the head and say ok, we'll let you off this time, Fryed Fish is such an exception wink

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian


The Real Fryed FishGod's illgitament son
1,489 posts
Location: state of confusion


Posted:
im an exception......YEA biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

you all are just jellous that i can trace my hand and not go out side the line so there

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too


dromepixieveteran
1,463 posts
Location: Florida


Posted:
Written by: ben-ja-men


i hope that poi extends into schools as i think it would be great for kids for getting better hand eye coordination




well I reckon it should be offered but not obligatory...

hugs
d biggrin

JUGGLEwithyourmind!


duballstarSILVER Member
slack rating - 9.5
2,216 posts
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
ditto the pixie... if only i could have juggled/spun at school. i've taught some of my little cousins stuff an they love it... biggrin

It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett


NucleopoiBRONZE Member
chemical attraction
1,097 posts
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England


Posted:
i would love poi/jugglng to be more recognised.it is just as hard as all these disciplines in the olympics.in the future an arts/juggling olympics could be introduced to the world,you never know.the problem is that it dusnt appeal to such a wide audience as the olympics/world cup etc.the thiong is to get a wider appeal for it and away you go!!! lolsign

MikeGinnyGOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA


Posted:
You know, for at least the last 3 years or so that I've been on this site people have been talking about how poi is becoming more and more mainstream.

But, you know, not really that I've noticed. And I've been spinning for quite a while now by poi standards.

And is "mainstream" really a bad thing? Juggling and fire breathing are pretty "mainstream" and yet they're still pretty cool, right?

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura


NucleopoiBRONZE Member
chemical attraction
1,097 posts
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England


Posted:
i think they are cool,thats why i do them.it just dusnt appeal to people.such as the other day my friend was playing with devilsticks and a 'chav' replied: why do you play with sticks when you can play football.see what i mean.its the people that have that attitude to juggling that we need to change for a start. bloody chav's. lolsign

JauntyJamesSILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,533 posts
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA


Posted:
it would be awesome if poi was mainstream, but i'd still be nostagic for the days when people ask me what i'm on about. i get a kick of explaining it to people and feeling superior

-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"


Bretchenthusiast
247 posts
Location: Cork, Ireland at present


Posted:
I don't have a problem with it going mainstream, as all the poi'ers/juggles/staff etc etc i've met are all really nice, willing to teach you and generally we get along fine and dandy.

What I don't want to happen is a craze, like a few years ago, the yoyo came back and every kid had one and it was ... cool .... obviously not at the chav age as it'll always be crap to them. But if a craze does take up, it will be just the same as every other craze, which is basically a company does what ever it can to get kids to buy their stuff, prices will go up, quality will go down and as with any craze, it will pretty much revert to what we have today, with a few more kids who will be excellent in time to come, which will be cool. so to sum up, its the commercialism that worries me.

If the craze ment that 1000's of kids watch a kids programme which showed how to make your own poi, and then 1000's started that way, that'd be excellent... oh man, my kids are gonna hate me... ubblol

I used to be indecisive, but I'm not so sure now.....


Mags The JediGOLD Member
Fool
2,020 posts
Location: Cornwall, UK


Posted:
I used to think about this. Like Vanize says, it's an old topic, but one that's worth bringing up again occasionally, just to see how poiple think the land lies.

To be perfectly honest, it's not gonna be too bad. A lot of people are taking up poi, but an almost equally large number give up again fairly soon afterwards.

And so what if there are more spinners/twirlers/whatever out there? Surely that just means more people being innovative, coming up with new ideas and generally spreading the love.

Am I the only person who thinks a world of poi-spinners would be a happier place?

[Fade In: The Oval Office. George W Bush is trying to learn the backwards 5 beat

Enter Colin Powell & Condoleeza Rice

CP>> Hello Mr President

CR>> Hello Mr President

GWB>> Howdy pards, how's it going today?

CP & CR> Bad. We need your signature on an executive order to attack Iran.

GWB>> Sorry guys, I just dont have time. I need to nail this, then start working on airwraps.

[Fade Out]

See? ubblol devil

"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988


_Clare_BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)


Posted:
ubblol ubblol

With Louis Armstrong's 'What a Wonderful World' being piped through the White House PA.

hug

Getting to the other side smile


Mags The JediGOLD Member
Fool
2,020 posts
Location: Cornwall, UK


Posted:
Yep. Something like that. biggrin

"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988


PyroWillGOLD Member
HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
4,437 posts
Location: Staines, United Kingdom


Posted:
ubblol ubblol

To be honest, i like poi how it is now, with still only a few people who do it (few as in compared to the population of the world) I think its great that we can do soemthing that so many people cant or have even heard of

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian


RovoGOLD Member
(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
544 posts
Location: Austin, TX, USA


Posted:
I personally don't want poi to become mainstream. Hopefully if it does it will just be a craze like Bretch said. If alot of people start spinning it will lose some of the novelty which does appeal to me. It irks me also when people do things just cause its the new in thing or to be cool. Sure some people would end up loving it and become life long poi people. On the other hand there would be alot of idiots learning to spin who don't respect what we do especially when it comes to spinning fire. You know there is a huge appeal to spinning fire and alot of people wouldn't wait till they had gained enough experience and would start spinning fire befoire they were ready. Now if some jerk who knows 5 moves tries making his own fire poi and whilst spinning one breaks and flies off and burns someones house down it would have reprocussions for all of us.

I don't think poi should be competetive either. I feel its more of an art and should be used to entertain and for your own personal growth. Spinning poi just to beat people in comptetion doesn't sound right to me.

Poi represents something not as tainted as most of the things in this world to me. It seems more down to earth. There is no showy commerecialism and people seem to want to share and help others learn. These qualities are refreshing in a world where stepping on your friends just to get ahead is as natural as sleeping at night. Where everything has to be bigger better faster and stronger and the weak are forgotten. With sports and other competetive things this isn't the case.

I like to think poi finds people, people don't find poi. smile

Peace, Love, Circles


ImmortalAngelSILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada


Posted:
I am not such a big fan of mainstream things just because of the crowd it attracts. I don't know how the situation is in the rest of the world, but where I live (Toronto, Ontario, Canada), at least 90% of the population flocks to what ever the newest fad is, and alot is lost if the fad happened to have a deeply routed cultural origin. It happened with Yo-yo's as they went huge again not to long ago. We had a recent outbreak of Devil Sticks a few years ago...Now it's rap and gangsters.
I guess I'd rather have quality over quantity in the people who do poi. The ones who do seem to do it (for the most part, because as was said, there will always be yahoos) try to learn the background behind it, and appreciate it's routes and do their part in blazing it's future.
I guess that's why some people do have their opinions about not teaching just anyone poi, and trying to keep it a selective art. Personally, I'll gladly introduce anyone who asks. If it really strikes them they'll go home and be on HoP in a matter of days wink

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />


Mags The JediGOLD Member
Fool
2,020 posts
Location: Cornwall, UK


Posted:
I'll teach anyone who asks. And a few who don't.

smile

"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
Well it looks like the U.K. has gotten things sorted when it comes to community, wish the same would happen over here. I don't know why, but the tiny spinning community that we do have is fragmented, and in my humble opinion for stupid reasons. It seems that we have alot of big egos, flakes, cliques, and a general who cares attitude when it comes to establishing any sort of community. Hey, I've even run into gender bias.

Personally I'll teach anybody who wants to learn, all I ask is that they practice, you know, put in the time, but not too many are willing to do this which is why I don't think poi will ever go "mainstream" ....too much work. I ran into more than a few people in Thailand who thought fire spinning would be a cool thing to do, they bought themselves a set of wicks, maybe had somebody show them a few "moves" ...lit up and scared themselves,,and ended up giving their wicks away,,,to me.

I find it just this side of impossible to find anyone to teach me, or it's horrifically expensive,, but that's the commercial aspect of it,,,, such is life

_pOp_BRONZE Member
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands


Posted:
Written by: PyroWill


there are currently 15,552 members on HoP and in my experience about a fifth of fire spinners in the world are on HoP maybe less but just saying a fifth means there are at least 77,760 spinners in the world,




in my experience waaaaay less...
almost none of the spanish speaking poi-people I met, had ever heard of HoP.
and about 1 out of 20 of the rest (some of them amazing spinners) have ever been on HoP, which doesn't even mean they regestered.

meditate eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!


thorFlaming Lesbian
181 posts
Location: Portland, Oregon


Posted:
i'm kind of worried about all these posts being `some kid who knows 5 moves decides to spin fire and ruins it for the rest of us` and `i don't want it to be bigger than it is or it'll lose it's charm`

first, when i started fire, i'm not sure if i even knew 5 moves, but i do remember i didn't mess up any of the few moves i knew. it's not about number to determine when you're ready, it's about confidence. i've known people break overbuilt dog chain poi before in the middle of a fire show (cough*cody*cough) who were very experienced. we always risk burning down someone's home, so don't act like some dumb kid is the only one risking bringing bad publicity to the community.

on the other topic, we don't have perspective on how big poi should get. we're in it, we've been in it, most of us apparently consider ourselves vets ;]... now before i spun poi, or ate fire, or did any of the other stupid things i do now, i thought they were cool and immensely impressive. we lose that perspective when we start. we start analyzing HOW things are done and lose our amazement at the simple fact that they WERE done. it's easy to confuse our own overanalyzing nature with a sense that it's being overdone or being turned into a fad.

show live fire poi to anybody off the street and they'll still leave with a grin on their faces.

Lights dancing off my skin as chains wrap round it.
Pain is in a little box and I'm so glad I found it.


IfritBRONZE Member
The GF of HoP
492 posts
Location: Somerset, England


Posted:
Does anyone else here see a resemblance to that novel turned film the beach? It seems that if we were to learn from this coronary tale then it would seem foolish to try and keep poi selective as someone would end up getting shot and then we would all lose out.

Also i agree with the thing about ppl not being able to put the effort in which will most likely make any sort of craze short lived and lame (God what poor vocab) .

*Wow isn’t it amazing that even in that there were no new points of view s just repeats. Maybe i should post it. Nope to late.

fire leads to creation


devkevSILVER Member
discoverer of phat and poigling
292 posts
Location: North London.. England


Posted:
this is a great thred... bounce

I have been playing for 14 years in the juggling world and i have seen the yoyoy craze, the astro jacks, the club juggling etc all go through highs and lows... they are all still there and some people are great at it... these people inspire more people to experience it... i cant fault this..

I really think the uk has a great community feel with poi, there is no competition here in the juggling world and this takes away the need to hide your tricks... I love teaching and sharing what i know and it keeps me on my toes to keep improving.. of course there are some egos but the places i play they get absorbed and wither away...

rovo above summed it up beautifully: clap

"I feel its more of an art and should be used to entertain and for your own personal growth. """

i would love to see a cross between riverdance and stomp on stage with poi... anyone want to help me produce it????

keep playing, sharing and inspiring





grouphug biggrin

its all about the fun fun fun fun and more fun...


ImmortalAngelSILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada


Posted:
Devkev, have you been looking at the "Bola as a rythmic insturment" article again?
wink It seems like a good idea, if you could get the co-ordination. You'd have to get a company crazy enough to support your idea to just get a grant to try it :P
Cirque Du Soliel is always good for things like that ^.^'

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />


StoutBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada


Posted:
So I take it we won't be seeing any " Who Makes Better Poi, Nike or Addidas?" threads anytime in the near future.

But I think PoiBox was more thinking along the terms of poi spinning in general, not specifically with fire. I don't know about you guys,,,but I figure only 5% ( maybe less) of my poi spinning is done with fire. It's winter in this part of the world, and we do try to get together once a week and practice with fire, but lately we've been rained out alot.

We're hosting a weekly practice session, indoors and nobody's showing up,hence my whiny post earlier. I know of at least 30 spinners in this city of 300 000 and I'm at a loss to figure out why. I've heard the " I don't want to pay five dollars......" excuse a few times, but hey, we do have to rent the room.

Any estimates as to what percentage of people start out learning poi, but quit within a month,,,six months? I think maybe 5% stay with it and as to that estimate concerning the number of spinners worldwide, I too think it's way off, way too low of the 30 spinners I mentioned above, I'm the only one on this site. PoiBox,,,how many Vancouverites on this site?

And Thor, I was one of those who lit up only knowing five moves, only I wasn't a kid, I was 40 and I feel you summed it up perfectly about confidence. I sure had fun doing the three beat weave and butterfly for a whole burn, so much fun that I practiced all the next day. I too never messed up with fire, I was thinking about what I was doing, so much that even forgot that I'd been sitting in a beach bar all evening.

I like the Riverdance meets Stomp with poi idea, if only I could talk my wife into moving to England........

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