Page:
nativeSILVER Member
sleeping with angels
508 posts
Location: anaheim CA usa


Posted:
the fire lilys web site has just had a make over.
please could every one check it out and tell me what you think....please not to harsh...

www.firelilys.com

SLEEP WITH ANGELS muckieha


onewheeldaveGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom


Posted:
On a display resolution of 800x600 it's pretty much unusable, to read it involves loads of horizontal scrolling.

Without wanting to be harsh, it's exactly the kind of site I shut down straight away because to use it takes way too much time, when I could be accessing several other sites that are designed to work on all screen settings.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


nativeSILVER Member
sleeping with angels
508 posts
Location: anaheim CA usa


Posted:
frown i will work on it and see what i can do.. any one else got a thought??

SLEEP WITH ANGELS muckieha


flash fireBRONZE Member
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia


Posted:
decide whether your troupe name is to be capitalised or not, then be consistent - you currently have it as:

Fire Lily's,
Fire lily's, and
fire lily's

which is it?

I would also recommend against the use of an apostrophe in the word "lily's". The correct word would be "lilies" but this won't be consistent with your URL. So, unless you have a Lily in your troupe, just call it Fire Lilys... just a suggestion.

Actually, there are a few grammatical and punctuation errors throughout the pages. Maybe go over it with a fine tooth comb, or get someone to look at it for you.

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nativeSILVER Member
sleeping with angels
508 posts
Location: anaheim CA usa


Posted:
frown flash i still love you smile

SLEEP WITH ANGELS muckieha


flash fireBRONZE Member
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia


Posted:
I am pedantic. smile I thought you would prefer to know, than to not know....

HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.


nativeSILVER Member
sleeping with angels
508 posts
Location: anaheim CA usa


Posted:
flash you know me all to well ubblol

SLEEP WITH ANGELS muckieha


pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
you really need to look into CSS.

get the table width's sorted, 800x600 really isnt working the way it is right now. you currently have all of your tables set like this : when your table width should be "100%", so you need to define your table widths better.
Define the main table and then all tables inside that should be set widths, your left margin and headers should be a set width like "115" and the main contents table can be "100%" to make it extendable to full page viewing on screen resolutions higer than 800x600.
you also need to look at the clolour matching too... pink and black?.... is the black really necesary? look at colours that complement each other.

If you want to email me your site i will take a look at it for you and sort all of the tables out then i can mail it you back.
Also you need to look at lowering the size of the images on the page too... its a long loader even on dsl, but i can do that for you too if you need help.

nice effort though dude, is this your first site?.

UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
Why do you need quicktime to view the site??

There are indeed some lovely spelling and grammar mistakes wink

THe pictures do indeed take faaaaar to long to load, as PK said, even on 1Mb ADSL.

mechBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom


Posted:
ditto
me to

Step (el-nombrie)


pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
ok so i had a spare bit of time so i stole the code from your site eek





The Fire Lily's























THE
FIRE LILY'S

fire performing arts troupe






We would like to Welcome you the wonderful
world of: fire spinning / dancing / & performing arts.


The fire lily's perform with the element of fire. No, we are not a bunch
of pyros but, in fact three creative

minds who have come to learn and respect the art of fire. The troupe consists
of three troupe members Rebekah, Summer dawn, & muckieha!

So far, but we are always looking for more talents and new ideas. The
Fire lily's are based out of Modesto, California.

Recently the fire lily's were featured on 106.1 kqrp salida, California's
Friday night "live" radio talk show "ki bits & ko boodle's".
We talked a little bit with them about performing with the element of
fire! Thank you to our friends at 106.1 for inviting us to share some
of our thoughts about the fire performing arts with radio listeners from
all around the central valley of California.


The fire lily's are currently booking personal events as well as public
performances. If you are interested?

Please go to the contact us page, follow the instructions accordingly
and one of the fire lily troupe members will be sure to get back to you!
If you have any questions or comments please feel free to ask!

Hope to hear from you soon..



  • The fire lily's are a troupe of experienced Entertainers & creative
    people who are talented in many

    different art forms.

  • The fire lily's are a fully insured, Trained professional fire performing
    arts troupe, with

    over 5yrs experience in the fire performing arts.

  • Our products & services are based around the volunteer fire performers
    set standard safety

    rules & regulations.


fire performance


The fire performing arts consists of many different styles and types
of art forms while performing with a

variety of fire props and dancing. It is not very known amongst a good
percentage of t, actually it

depends where you go and who you know. Lots of people we have come in
contact with have never even seen this type of entertaining art form.


Yes, this type of entertainment is very dangerous and should never be
tried at home, unless you are being supervised by an experienced professional
or have been taught by one! So, Please don't go setting your brooms on
fire! Almost all the fire performers we have spoke with say that when
they saw "another

person spinning fire for the first time.....They were drawn to it!"
in saying that we have also learned that

most fire performing artists are all very original and definitely have
their own style....everyone is an

individual and everyone's body works differently so when you learn how
to spin fire you learn the way

that your body likes to move. Yes, if there is one move that everyone
knows that is how you do that

move but how does your body work with that move? Do you start out differently
then the person next to

you or are you a mirror exactly to that person...when you start to become
familiar with the move and the

dance then you learn how to love but respect the fire if you have seen
it, Then you have probably been

seen in a more traditional theme like Tahitian fire dance /"Hawaiian"
style /or Polynesian style dance. performing usually with Maori poi Which
has been a treat to see for generations & hopefully more to come.
fire performing is well known in Australia and new Zealand.


All of the current troupe members of the fire lily's were introduced
and exposed to the fire performing arts in different ways and as they
learned they noticed together they had become fascinated by this art.
They couldn't believe how many people actually had never even heard of
this beautiful art/dance combo.

Each member researched this art and took their own time and dedication
to learn and research Fire performing together as a group and as individuals.








thats all the code you need to redesign your pages.
All you have to do is paste that to your index page, if you want me to do the other pages then say so!, you now have a basic template.
I see that you used yahoo site builder!.... dont its crap, it will add so much useless code and thats why it takes so long to load even on a 1 mb dsl connection.
Basically i sumarised your code, and took out nearly all of it! and left you with the good stuff thats needed, having studied communications and layout in college i changed your text! to suit the page but i left you the typo's! so you will have to change those.
There is a simple CSS call in the header, so all text is in the tables set to default, the CSS will call the font and font size and colour from there!.

It works and looks ok to me now and it is set in a fixed width of 790 pixels. I havnt viewed it with the header and footer images as i didnt steal those, i was just after your code, so if you do change it on your server, change the name of your index page, then paste that code above into a new one and make that index.html so you can have a look. you can always revert back to the one you already had, by swapping the names back.

smile

mechBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom


Posted:
pk thats a rather nice job

i like how much you did cut out, some i would have left in becauseotherwise i think yahoo would have had a little sissy fit and crashed maybe, butthen again i would not be builing it in yahoo so who cares


sweet job bro

now go do my css file wink

Step (el-nombrie)


pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
yeah but non of what i removed was nesesary mate! so why have code and back log the load time from the server??


now email me your whole site in .rar and i will have a look at it for you some time tonight. no promisses though.

im still waiting on the images in doing a site for an aerial artist/dancer/model/actor/cute girl in london. so i got a little time before that comes in, i know where im at with the work load.

mechBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom


Posted:
im setting up outlook on my laptop now, cos i have left work biggrin

Step (el-nombrie)


MandSILVER Member
Keeper of the Spitfire
2,317 posts
Location: Calgary Canada


Posted:
I loaded the site up, and it made my computer crash. mad

Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.


pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
prolly cos its using activeX... for no reason.

SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
Good start PK.....

Now remove the tables. You should Layout the whole thing using CSS. that way it will be viewible by any browser, more manageable, and faster to load.

I'm not sure about the design at all - the black is bad.

Why don't you try going to a WebDev web site, rather than a spinners forum to ask about it? Try https://www.sitepoint.com/
for ideas and more links etc.

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
total CSS would be a bit much! for this site anyway!, i'd have given it a go but i only had 30 mins to spare.
As you will have noticed in the code, the black was removed and left blank for now!.

I do have a rather nice full CSS no tables, no text version of poiinthepark but its not finished yet, i dislike the way its displaying the links in the blocks, but i'll play some more one day!, im kinda saving that one for miss astrofaeiries website when she gives me the art work and text.

I'd like to redo tepooka.org too, but i was learning back then and could do so much more, i do love certain elements and i have reused some in illuminati's website which only 2 people have seen online, i cant wait till that sites finished.

DomBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK


Posted:
Written by: Sym (Previously Toyer90)


Now remove the tables. You should Layout the whole thing using CSS. that way it will be viewible by any browser, more manageable, and faster to load.




I disagree - mix'n'match for best of all possible browsers.

SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
Written by: Dom


Written by: Sym (Previously Toyer90)


Now remove the tables. You should Layout the whole thing using CSS. that way it will be viewible by any browser, more manageable, and faster to load.




I disagree - mix'n'match for best of all possible browsers.




Tell that to the W3C...! Tables are for tabular data. See https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html

CSS should be used for all site layout without question. I know it means relearning how to make web sites, but I would say that anyone who has anything to do with the internet professionally should start relearning!

PK, The CSS for this site would be very easy indeed. Having made over 30 pure CSS/XHTML sites it wouldn't take long for me to hack something together. Just ask.....


Anyway, as I said before, this is not the place for such things. Sitepoint forums are the place to be.

If you want to talk more about CSS and XHTML, email me.

(sorry if that sounded rude...I just mean that we shouldn't be talking about making websites here really....see flash fires post...)

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
i actually disagree, we as "the community" have our own websites, i think general discussion on website building is a good topic as any of the bullshit thats posted in social here.
Home of poi taught me a lot about what community means, my own site is community based, no where near a comparison to hop, we dont aim to compete in any such way and we respect our roots of hop, hop will never have to worry about that, were not actually talking about competing against hop, just generalised web construction, so why shouldnt we help each other, there are many here that build websites, and i would love to post here and help where i can with the subject as far as my knowledge will let me.
As long as the sites were talking about are for the fire community i dont see any problems unless we get shouted at.

The thing i find with the fire community is that every thing seems to be centralised... where if you ever become involved with the unicycling community.... every thing you need to know is scattered all over the net and not in one central resource, im still finding valuable information after over a year of reading unicycling community pages.

For newbie website builders here such as the site in this thread, people maybe looking for help and who better to ask than people with the same interests in poi and site building.
I know i'd much prefer to help some one here than some one i dont know with a website that doesnt interest me what so ever.
I'd sooner build a site for some one that is in these arts than build one completly random.. at the end of the day we know the subject and we know how to do whats needed isnt that why we do it?

just my general thoughts.

flash if im wrong you have my permission to give me a spanking cos you know i like those!.

musashiistarring Skippy the green llama
1,148 posts
Location: Seattle, WA


Posted:
Written by: Sym (Previously Toyer90)


Written by: Dom


Written by: Sym (Previously Toyer90)


Now remove the tables. You should Layout the whole thing using CSS. that way it will be viewible by any browser, more manageable, and faster to load.




I disagree - mix'n'match for best of all possible browsers.




Tell that to the W3C...! Tables are for tabular data. See https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html

CSS should be used for all site layout without question. I know it means relearning how to make web sites, but I would say that anyone who has anything to do with the internet professionally should start relearning!






I disagree too, doesn't matter what they're originally made for, they're still extremely useful, and I can still get the same results across browsers. I dunno if CSS support has really reached that level across all browsers anyways. That's quite a bold comment tho, I'd be interested in what these pure CSS sites that you've done look like, got a few examples?

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."


mechBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom


Posted:
ditto

i have seen some pure css sites, a uni proff was showing one off a couple of years back

i cant really talk of its limitations, but it seems rather, at least his one did, a little primitive, in layout and style.


I ALWAYS say what works for you on your pc wont always work for the end user who might not have the same plug in sequence as you, hence why i stay away from flash like it has a plauge!

hence i build small stupid lazy sites like mine (www.laterdays.co.uk)

I do like full css though, saying it has faults, and building one are two diff things

ill see if i can get hold of the css site from uni, and load it up for you mushi

it was simple, but from what i could see it pulled the css like a relational db, reffing the for tables, and then calling the info from another db.

Step (el-nombrie)


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
*Sings*

Can of worms,
Can of worms,
Can of Worms


wink

pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
i see pretty much the purpose of a fully css'd site would be more for a cms, would make much more sense to me on some thing with a lot of content, the css to pull not only all tags but tables too would save on load time.
As long as every think was defined correctly you can do any thing in css once you have taken the time to set up the pages.
As for cms, i love xoops, smarty template and theme based you can wqirk in css a lot better with out taking much effort, and you dont even have to touch the core files when modding themes or changing templates and you can write any thing you want into modules to work on the site.

So i was sat watching some new stuff on scene.org the other week and thinking how sweet it would be to have a site running graphics like what you see on that site, thing is that they are so powerful thet they run on your system resources, one coincidently shut my PC down the other night!, they would have to run server side, could you imagine some thing that would drain the [censored] out of your serve?? lol would be fun to try and do it. Any challengers?.
yay for css'd cms.

bluecatgeek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere


Posted:
geeks.

hug

Holistic Spinner (I hope)


SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
Ok, PK, point taken about talking about fire sites etc.

I still don't think this forum is the place to talk about coding - maybe email would be better if you want to help a fellow spinner..i donno...

As for CSS being flexible....See https://www.csszengarden.com/.

They take the same XHTML file and apply different CSS files to it - have a look though some of the designs, then let me know if you still think CSS isn't flexible ;-)

I can think of about 20 reasons why CSS should be used over tables on any website for layout. I won't go in to it here.

I am not the best person to talk about CSS over tables, as it's been done 100's of times before in the internet.

See:
https://tech.irt.org/articles/js135/
https://www.evolt.org/article/The_Wrong_Way_to_Use_CSS_in_Page_Layouts/20/22547/
https://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/dreamweaver/articles/why_css.html

And about 20,000 other sites.

Think DDA, think cross-platform, think clean, think manageable, think CSS!

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


flidBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
Written by:

You should Layout the whole thing using CSS. that way it will be viewible by any browser




since when was css viewable by more browsers than tables?!

SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
since 1994.

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


DomBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK


Posted:
Which was about when I started coding web sites. Crickey!!



All CSS site, and some nice Accessability features: https://www.hollyoaks.com/

Any you can use CSS to represent tabular data so arguably there's no reason to use them at all.



When I have a client that will pay me for the extra expense of coding multiple versions of a site for different CSS interpretations and be fine with older browsers across the world not being able to see the site as it should be then that's what I'll build. In the meantime it is still easier to use tables, which degrade more gracefully than CSS.



Using pure CSS is still like a shopkeeper standing outside thier shop and not letting every 100th person through the door.



Edit: Just thought of something to blow the CSS on all browsers argument to pieces. Pocket Internet Explorer does not support CSS. TaDa! It's back to Font tags. Should have thought of this earlier as I'm currently building something for the XDA!
EDITED_BY: Dom (1103128608)

SymBRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom


Posted:
utter rubbish (about the shop keeper)



However, I won't say anything more about it on this site as we are no longer talking about the site that this topic is (was) about.



You have my email address...



PS, Pocket IE will render XHTML, therefore you can make one website that will work on any browser...and the best thing is that using CSS you can cutout all the images (or some) when viewed on the phone. So Un-TaDa Mr.! tongue



I will take the challange of converting your final site from tables in to css and testing both on every browser (including screen readers) I can get hold of (IE3-6SP2 on windows, IE5 Mac, Safari, Firefox and Lynx for starter). What do you think?



Edit: See https://msdn.microsoft.com/library/defaul...netexplorer.asp



Quote:

Cascading style sheets CSS 1 and CSS Mobile Profile.



So id does support CSS....if only version 1:

https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1

EDITED_BY: Sym (Previously Toyer90) (1103130333)

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


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