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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California

I know this topic is going to get out of had but I just have got to get this off my chest.

While I was on leave (vacaition for you non military people) I got to be home for two good friends wedding, I was also there for a friend of the family's funeral.

The day I left to drive from Cali to New Mexico Matt was walking on the side of the road (no sidewalk) when he was hit and killed by some chick driving a pick up. She hit him so hard that it crushed all the bones in his body from the chest down!!

The chick was high on crack, Matt was 14.

Your right drugs dont hurt anybody. Its my body, I'll do what I want with it.

I am glad to report though that even with all the small town politics and the popularity of the chick she is still getting charged with vehicular homicide fleeing the scean of a crime and obstruction of justice.

She is also lucky that she was behind bars while I was in town, otherwise I would probably be behind bars, or is that supposed to be I am lucky she was behind bars?

For those of you who choose to take part in the use of things like that chick did, please think of Matt and his family before you do.

I feel I have written this as rationally I can and without too much emotion, I hope I dont get any hate mail over this but I had to say it.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

SmallBoy - xSmallBoy - xCarpal \'Tunnel
2,737 posts
Location: London

Trying to get into this one first, but the length of my post may defeat me.
Truly I feel very very sorry for you and your pain.
Like all things there are circumstances that prove how irresponsible people can truly be.
Like drinking and driving, driving when you're not totally in control of your body is not clever.
Although I did most of my driving lessons stoned, I wasn't totally wrecked etc... and I don't drive under the influence of anything nowadayz. You know it's a bad idea before you start getting twatted, so be responsible and think....
However what you are descibing is not the norm for people that use recreational drugs (there is a whole other argument that goes with that term too) in a controlled environment.
Being on crack to start with is not good, (don't sniff that type of crack myself) but then I'm biased because I've seen even strong willed people fuck their lives up on it (& heroin).
As far as my own point of view goes, yes it's my body and I'll do what I want with it, but I don't do anything I think will fuck up my mums life by having to bury her 22 year old son, or my own by being in control of anything dangerous.
My advice to all people that use drugs (although fairly redundant because most people are sensible enough already), have fun, stay fluffy & make it to & from my next rave in one peace.
At the end of the day, don't blame the drugs, blame the person. If that person had drunk 12 pints and then got behind the wheel I'd blame the driver, not the alcohol because they know the risks before they started.
These are my views, and as always feel free to abuse me for them.
SB -

Small Lardy Person In Disguise

382 posts
Location: Southampton

There are so many factors to consider, what type of person is using it, what drug it is, the list could go on and on, but you must remember that judging all drugs together is impossible.

I respect that for you the end result is the same and I'm very sorry to hear of your loss. I hope you can move on after this tragic loss of a young life.

A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words...

DomDomBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK

Ray, sorry to hear about this. I hope your pain lessens.

I'm not going to lay into you as you're obviously upset by this, but please don't blame all drugs. Don't you ever dare lump me together with the cracked up driver. As a drinker would have made the same post if she'd been drunk? How about if she was tired and fell asleep at the wheel? If she was drunk she probably wouldn't be charged as heavily. Either way, she was irresponsible, and she's guilty of killing somebody.

Hope your life has less hurt in it soon.

xtremravr...was here..member
337 posts
Location: amsterdam..i wish

i am very very *very* sorry to hear about Matt, there is nothing that i could really say to help this matter, so i will say this tho. the death of matt like any death involving drugs should not of happened. it is scary to think that we as people can not walk in our own neighborhoods without being hit by a drunk or drugged driver. i cannot say i know how you feel bc i have not had a friend die as the result of a drunk driver, except for the ones that i lost bc they were driving drunk. i do my best to drive in only a sober state, yet oi do drive after 4:20 and indulge myself in a couple beers b4 driving, but not while totally intoxicated. there comes a point where one will give up the things that could hrt ones self and the ones around you that you love. that is the time when one reaches adulthood, true there are adults that still ravage in drinking and driving, and those are the people that never grew up inside there own minds, they are the ones that give everyone else a bad rap, again im sorry for your loss, but as the others said, please do not blame the drugs, blame the drug users.

Peace Luv Uni-t Respect Responsa-what?!?! Xtrem

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California

As I figured what I said wasnt understood how I wanted it to be. Yes I am angry at that chick but I was using Matt as a warning, asking those of you who decide to use drugs to please consider the consiquences before you do. I know we all think that it wont happen to us, believe me when I was racing down the highway against that Mustang going over 110 mph I wasnt thinking of getting in an accident, I am sure those who use drugs dont think that maybe I might kill someone. All I was trying to say was please please please consider all angles, dont play it off as it all depends on the person taking the drug.

I blame all mind-altering substances like drugs and alcohol for deaths like Matt's. Why not? If the person hadnt been using them I would say there is atleast a 90% chance that the people they killed would still be alive.

Dom, my word I rarely hear emotion like that comming from you, but I am not lumping you or anyone in any group, I am simply asking all of you who do any drug/alcohol to consider what a consiquence could be. If this still angers you, then grow some thicker skin. After doing two 13 + hour trips accross country I know that pulling over and taking a little nap is a hell of alot better than trying to drive tired.

Dont worry about my losses, I deal with em the same way I always have and always will. Do not patronize me, Dom of all people should know how I feel and for those of you who have no clue, do some serching for some of my other posts. You will see I am being very rational and nice about the whole thing.

[ 08 June 2002, 04:25: Message edited by: Raymund Phule ]

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Trippie HippieTrippie HippieBRONZE Member
old hand
733 posts
Location: Bewildered state of nothingness, United Kingdom

Man, thats so sad i can relate to what your feeling so much, I've lost a very dear and close friend to me through a drunk driver,(She was 4 time over the limit) and two other friends through drugs(OD's). So i know how it feels.
But at the end of the day, as long as drink and drugs are around the a**eholes that use and abuse them will be aswell.
I think that you have to be responsible if you do use them, know your limits, and most of all, stay off the god dam roads when you do!!!!!!
It was a great loss to both me and the people around me when my friends died through over dosing, not knowing there limits, but it was their choice, but when some one elce makes that choice for you it makes a difficult situation unbearable.
"Rest in peace lads your forever in our thoughts"

Trippie Hippie- Monty Dons secret love child

Fly like a mouse, run like a pillow, be the small book case.

"Last night i met some pixies and we danced around a stone".

Because dressing up is fun.

42 posts
Location: Melbourne

In my personol opinion anything that takes away your ability to control and dicsipline your self is bad, and anyone who willfully chooses to endulge in such acts should suffer the consequesnces, deffinatly not nnocent bistanders. Not being under your own control due to substance abuse is your choice and whatever you do is your resposibility. "I was drunk" or "i was high" is no excuse, you chose to be in this state and you need to face up to your responsibilitys. Drugs don't hurt people, people hurt people, it's a sad fact but true. So think before you act, it's the best advice anyone will ever give you...

Q:Whay do you keep hiting yourself in the head with that hammer?A:Cos, it just feels so good when i stop...

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California

Finally one person understands what I ment. I know I cant change your minds but please do as Trippy Hippy says. "stay off the god dam roads when you do!!!!!!"

Ohh yes I just saw Khamelean's post, and that is exactly how I feel. Some people out there do understand... I am suprised!

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

557 posts
Location: The Underworld


My Condolences also..

But I must agree with these guys. It is nieve to put all drug users in a box. There are a great number of drugs, and different ways they can affect a person, and more importantly, billions of different people who use,or react to them in their own way.
The majority of people I've come accross in my life have, at one point or another, used drugs. It is very rare that I have seen any I'll efects.
Most people are responsible, and, knowing their limits, use them wisely.
There are however, always going to be idiots out there who just ruin it for everyone.
Crack is a tough 1 tho. It's wot I call a 'turner'. Heroin fits this catagory too. Crack and Brown can change a person drastically. But I'm straying here.
Now, if u could hand world domination over to any guy on the street, they then have a choice. as two extreme examples, they could eighther spread the love, and move towards some sort of global equilibriam, or, in turn they could focus on themselfs and leave the world to rot while their servants grant their every wish.
Sorry, my point here is, as individuals, it is up to us to be responsible for ourselfs. A populace can not be blamed for 1 selfish idiots actions..
Peace,Respect,Love, and Responsibility

Az abouve, So below...

55 posts
Location: UK

***Drugs don't hurt people, people hurt people***

Awesome quote!

Raymund Phule i'm sorry that you have lost a friend top some irresponsible bitch who has given a bad name to the majority of recreational drug users!

Go2 kinda agree with alot of ppl on this thread!

Personally i would not consider taking anything drugs/alcohol and driving (I don;t drive but still even if i did)
And i am very reluctant to get into a car with anyone driving who has taken drugs and never if they have drunk over the limit!
Its best to do drugs in a controlled environment where if things go wrong there are ppl to help and you can't harm anybody not directly involved with your activities!

Also i know it wasn't your intent but pls don;t class everyone who takes the drugs the same!

Its the same as if i classed you with a certain LEEDS football player who kicked the shit outta some guy when he'd drunk alcohol!

Some of us know our limits and are "sensible" with our recreational activities and unfortunately alot of ppl arn't which reflects on us which pisses ppl like me off alot!

Nuff with the bitchin sorry again to hear about your friend and i hope that he has gone to a place much better than here!

Beamers Hurt but double Beamers r u insane???Well actually...yes i am!

MikeGinnyMikeGinnyGOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,923 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

First of all, my most sincere condolences.

I think it's important to remember that drugs are not just illicit substances. She might have been driving drunk and the same tragedy might have happened. Drugs, at least for our purposes, are chemicals that alter consciousness. That includes the legal ones like alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine.

I have no problem with people who get drunk, high, or otherwise impaired. I have a BIG problem when these people decide to drive. People need to decide ahead of time that they will not drive while altered. It's a concrete limit and I have never heard of a drug that takes people so out of touch with reality that they forget that concrete limit when they have it set.

I think that the blame should be placed where the blame lies: on the girl, not on the drug. Had she stayed home and used the drug, your friend would still be alive. The fact that she was so idiotic as to try to drive a car while high on crack is inexcusable and tantamount to murder in my mind.

Again, deepest sympathies to you and to Matt's family. I hope that the girl meets justice for her heinous act.


Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

RoziSILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

All drugs, including non-recreational ones, have the ability to impair driving ability. It may because of improper use, or it may be the expected effect of the drug.

I have just started on a course of medication that causes nausea. I get sudden waves of it that come on very unexpectedly. On the third day of taking this medication I decided to drive to the shops. A sudden attack came on & I had to pull over to the side of the road. I have to be smart about this and recognise when I have reached my limits and can't drive. I need to be able to concentrate on the road & can't do it when I am worried I am going to projectile vomit on the steering wheel (btw, there is no warning about not operating machinery with this stuff, it is just that the nausea impairs my ability to drive)

My point is this, you have to know your limits. You also cannot work right up to your limits. You have to leave a sensible buffer zone. Because you will always have more confidence in your ability than is warranted. & quite often using drugs will add to this unwarranted confidence.

A lot of the people I know take care to do this. They either ensure that the car is left at home, or that someone else has their keys. So if they do get past the sensible stage, they have they reassurance that they do not have an opportunity to drive even if they want to. Others don't take this precaution. Quite often it is the decisions you make when you are straight & sober that count more than the decisions you make when under the influence.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

Bender_the_OffenderBender_the_OffenderGOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Originally posted by MikeGinny:
I think that the blame should be placed where the blame lies: on the girl, not on the drug.
too true. to blame primarily drugs for the tragedy is like blaming simply guns for gun deaths. the blame is misdirected, ultimately at the cost of peoples' freedoms. To kneejerk react at all drug users is to make this a double tragedy.

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California

I know this is all but a dead post but I had one question...

Was it the girl that was driving fault that she couldnt controle herself, or was it the drug that altered her brain that made it so she couldnt controle herself??

In my opinion they are both guilty.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

1,551 posts
Location: the arms of the Ganja Goddess

Ray, I am sorry to hear for your loss, I know what it is like to lose someone to substances, as my Uncle commited suicide after getting severly intoxicated. Tho none of this would ever have happened if there was a little thing called common sense involved. Yes I do drink and do drugs, but you know what, I know how to say when enough is enough. I refuse to be in potentially dangerous situation with someone on any substances that alter your reaction times etc. You should know the risks involved when you take substances, and you should know how to be in a relative state of control. I have been criticized by my choice of being a 'Go green or Go home' drug user. I have my reasons, I would rather smoke a doobie than drink a beer. Why you ask. B/c man created beer, and nature created pot. Who do you trust? I refuse to hang around with people who do 'hardcore' drugs such as heroine and cocaine. But I will not tell someone not to do it. It is thier choice if they want to fuck thier selves over, and that chick is now going to have to deal with the emotional guilt of having killed a 14 year kid. And the guilt will not be in a drug induced state, but a sober state. She will now, hopefully, have to look Matt's parents in the face, look them directly in the eyes, and apologize for killing thier son. But you know what, she will probably crack before that happens and have a breakdown. AND on top of it, no one, no matter how strong and tuff they are, would be able to say that to parents of a child that they have killed, b/c of thier own stupidity, without breaking down

You. Its whats for dinner!

As time passes, you realise all the mistakes you amde and the ones you wish you never did make.

The wave crashing on the beach

xtremravr...was here..member
337 posts
Location: amsterdam..i wish

ray~~blame...obviously it is the girls fault who opted to take the drug, how in the hell could you blame the drug for matt's death??? the drug was not driving the car, the drug didnt tell the girl to drive the car, the drug was simply taken by the user, and then the user mad e the choice to drive, as she probably has done many times before, and screwed up, fatally. now her neglegeance(sp?) and stupidity is what got her to get behind the wheel, again im sorry to hear about your loss, but you have to deal out the blame where it is necessary, not where it isnt.

Peace Luv Uni-t Respect Responsa-what?!?! Xtrem

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California

What caused the girls mind altering state? The drug right? So perhaps there could be some fault there. When a drunk driver kills someone the say a drunk driver, not a driver, they place blame with the alcohol and the driver simply by calling it a drunk driver. The same thing applies with the crack. A cracked out driver killed a kid, see the relation ship??

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

69 posts
Location: uk, devon

this is a really interesting topic. there are obviously very strong views about it, & its important to remember that we all have a right to our own opinion. can there ever be moral truths about anything anyway?

i think that without having tried the drug itself it is difficult to be able to have an unbiased view and because we have been taught that particular drugs are 'evil', it is natural to oppose their use.
don't get me wrong, i would never touch drugs such as heroin, largely due to the images and stories i have seen in the media. trainspotting succesfully dissuaded me from ever going near the stuff!
but i firmly believe that it is an individuals right to be able to take a drug as it is only 'harming' to themselves. it puzzels me that drugs such as ecstacy (& especially cannabis) are illegal when alcohol is socially acceptable. if you watch a bunch of pissed up guys together then the outcome is often violence. ive seen plenty of drunk blokes fighting, but how many fights have you seen between guys high on e?? none? which brings up the question- why is it so acceptable to get pissed when we're not 'allowed' to use a drug which is less harmful to those around us. why don't we have the right to use something which is only harmful to the user.
ok, i'm going off the point...
i take drugs myself but have made a rule to never drive under the influcence. in a perfect world we would all follow this rule and horrific accidents like this wouldn't happen. although the drug may only be harmful to the user in most cases, it takes a moment of stupidity to get into a vehicle which immediatly puts innocent people at risk.

Originally posted by MikeGinny:
I think that the blame should be placed where the blame lies: on the girl, not on the drug.

xtremravr...was here..member
337 posts
Location: amsterdam..i wish

point well taken ray,

Peace Luv Uni-t Respect Responsa-what?!?! Xtrem

master sodiummember
536 posts
Location: carson city, nevada

I do have to agree with raymond on this one. you cant blame only the person and not the drug. I know alot of people that when sober will say "I'd never drive under the influence" but when they are intoxicated, they would jump right behind the wheel if allowed. this still falls under the persons irresponsibility with drugs, but how can you have irresponsibility with drugs without having drugs involved. of course it goes far deeper, and after much debating in my head, I realized you can blame just about anyone or anything for someone driving under the influence. the government for not properly teaching about drugs, the persons peers for giving the drugs to/pushing the drugs on the lady, the person who sold her the car, because they didn't make an attempt to see if she would handle a vehicle responsibly. now I realize those are kinda far fetched, and you would have to be a lawer or something to try to blame the seller of the car, but you could. I mean hell, if you think about it, I'll bet somehow I could be blamed for the tragedy.

damn, I forgot where I was going with this so I'll just shut up now, before I make a complete ass of myself.

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.

pantsonfirethe man with the flaming pants
148 posts
Location: Brisvegas, Aust

Hey Ray sorry to about the lost of your friend. I think you make a valide point.

It's all good

4,308 posts
Location: York, England

i still think it is interesting that alcohol is legal and so many other less harmful things are not. And that x and heroin are mentioned in the same breath as if they have the same results.

miseducation is doing more damage than a lot of things, cause once people find out you've lied to them about some drug related things, they assume they can't trust you on any...

and DARE only increases the number of drug users... there has to be someone or something in the govt benefiting majorly from this or else it makes less than no sense at all....

but that's off topic. of course what the girl did is horrible. But no more horrible, in fact even a little less than if she'd ran a stop sign and killed someone while she was clean.

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California

I am not dissagreeing with you on that Kyrain, it is rather stupid for one to be acceptable and the other not.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"