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Forums > Social Chat > Soy Milk Vs Cow's Milk
Login/Join to ParticipateRouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003
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Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...
Total posts: 13215
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003
Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...
Total posts: 13215
Posted:i'm highly confused. im trying to look up on the internet to find which is better, and although sites generaly say soy milk is, some of them have then turned around and said "but..."
so i was wondering if anyone here can give me a straight answer, please!
i also hear that soy yoghurt is easier for your body to digest - is this right as well? and will soy milk give me enough calcium?
thanks
so i was wondering if anyone here can give me a straight answer, please!
i also hear that soy yoghurt is easier for your body to digest - is this right as well? and will soy milk give me enough calcium?
thanks
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001
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Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Total posts: 2758
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001
Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Total posts: 2758
Posted:I agree that Soy Milk can be an acquired taste. Personally, I can't stand the taste of So Good brand. Vitasoy has some nice flavoured milk, however it's affiliated with the Coke corporation so I try to steer clear. Australia's Own in nice (they also do a rice milk), however as I stated in my previous post BonSoy is the best for you, and tastes fine, and it's GMO free. "Created by Japanese soy masters using traditional recipes perfected over centuries. Bonsoy is made by bulling and splitting a select variety of organic soybeans. The beans are cooked and finely ground with purified hot water in a patented process that gives Bonsoy its unique mellow flavour"
very easy for your body to digest and absorb goodness. Damn expensive though at almost double the price of other organic soy milk.
very easy for your body to digest and absorb goodness. Damn expensive though at almost double the price of other organic soy milk.
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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001
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HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Total posts: 13920
GOLD Member since May 2001
HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Quote:
reading flash's post, i forgot to add the fact that humans are the only animals who both drink milk all our lives, and drink the milk of other species.
I think that people hold this up as a reason not to drink milk. But let's think about this for a moment.
Humans are also the only animals to do a number of things. We're the only animals to cook our food, we're the only animals to use bicycles, etc. As it happens, some humans have evolutionarily adapted to drinking milk by expressing a form of the enzyme beta-galactosidase (lactase) that is expressed through life, and not just in childhood. That is clear proof that humans have evolutionarily adapted to milk drinking, especially those from cultures that do dairy farming.
It's a very recent adaptation, because it is not universal in the species. But the adaptation is there, so it isn't evolutionarily "wrong" of us to be drinking milk as adults.
reading flash's post, i forgot to add the fact that humans are the only animals who both drink milk all our lives, and drink the milk of other species.
I think that people hold this up as a reason not to drink milk. But let's think about this for a moment.
Humans are also the only animals to do a number of things. We're the only animals to cook our food, we're the only animals to use bicycles, etc. As it happens, some humans have evolutionarily adapted to drinking milk by expressing a form of the enzyme beta-galactosidase (lactase) that is expressed through life, and not just in childhood. That is clear proof that humans have evolutionarily adapted to milk drinking, especially those from cultures that do dairy farming.
It's a very recent adaptation, because it is not universal in the species. But the adaptation is there, so it isn't evolutionarily "wrong" of us to be drinking milk as adults.
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura
flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001
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Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Total posts: 2758
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001
Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Total posts: 2758
Posted:So, are you saying that because I'm lactose intolerant I'm actually less evolved than you are Lightning? 
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Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001
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HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Total posts: 13920
GOLD Member since May 2001
HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Yes, Flash Fire. You are a good step down the evolutionary ladder from me.
So neener.
So neener.
-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura
Posted:Also as much as you bash milk, in a time when we were scrapping the barrel for nutrition it was very important, mostly for the fat in it (which is largely considered a negative biproduct by people today)
We didn't have soy crops in europe and america, no one grew it, and no one knew of it's full protein properties (or even understood what the hell protein was)
People act like it's completly wrong and bizarre that we would drink milk. I think it's a sign how resourceful humans are. Why not drink the milk from a cow when it produces far more then it's young need and can keep produceing it after the young has grown up? It would have gone to waste if we hadn't of drank it.
Ofcourse now we raise cows soley for the milk, and the meat actually goes to waste. Which is admittedly backwards.
We didn't have soy crops in europe and america, no one grew it, and no one knew of it's full protein properties (or even understood what the hell protein was)
People act like it's completly wrong and bizarre that we would drink milk. I think it's a sign how resourceful humans are. Why not drink the milk from a cow when it produces far more then it's young need and can keep produceing it after the young has grown up? It would have gone to waste if we hadn't of drank it.
Ofcourse now we raise cows soley for the milk, and the meat actually goes to waste. Which is admittedly backwards.
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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Total posts: 3252
GOLD Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Quote:
Quote:
reading flash's post, i forgot to add the fact that humans are the only animals who both drink milk all our lives, and drink the milk of other species.
I think that people hold this up as a reason not to drink milk. But let's think about this for a moment...
Many people are interested in promoting the idea of cutting down or eliminating use of animal products, for some, or all of the following reasons: -
it's cruel (dairy cows are effectivly genetically modified (by centuries of selective breeding) freaks with grossly enlarged udders) they are caused to produce milk by being impregnated and having their calves (i.e. their babies) removed
it's unnecessary for our nutrition
it's bad for humanity- deriving nutrition by feeding crops to animals is grossly inefficient, if instead we used the crops directly there would be roughly ten times as much usable food world wide (also, as we head towards a possible world drought it's worth reflecting on the fact that a similar proportion of water would be freed up if animal production was minimised).
Given the above, and the fact that some people, on realising that they are consuming a substance that was 'designed/meant' for the infants of another species; are put off using it; it's easy to see why such expressions are bandied about.
Many children instinctively find milk repulsive and require considerable coercion to aquire the habit. The main reason milk was so popular is because it was marketed at primary school level (when I was a child it was given free to all children at breaks) and milk marketing boards used very dodgy scientific studies to convince the population that it had great nutritional value.
Quote:
reading flash's post, i forgot to add the fact that humans are the only animals who both drink milk all our lives, and drink the milk of other species.
I think that people hold this up as a reason not to drink milk. But let's think about this for a moment...
Many people are interested in promoting the idea of cutting down or eliminating use of animal products, for some, or all of the following reasons: -
it's cruel (dairy cows are effectivly genetically modified (by centuries of selective breeding) freaks with grossly enlarged udders) they are caused to produce milk by being impregnated and having their calves (i.e. their babies) removed
it's unnecessary for our nutrition
it's bad for humanity- deriving nutrition by feeding crops to animals is grossly inefficient, if instead we used the crops directly there would be roughly ten times as much usable food world wide (also, as we head towards a possible world drought it's worth reflecting on the fact that a similar proportion of water would be freed up if animal production was minimised).
Given the above, and the fact that some people, on realising that they are consuming a substance that was 'designed/meant' for the infants of another species; are put off using it; it's easy to see why such expressions are bandied about.
Many children instinctively find milk repulsive and require considerable coercion to aquire the habit. The main reason milk was so popular is because it was marketed at primary school level (when I was a child it was given free to all children at breaks) and milk marketing boards used very dodgy scientific studies to convince the population that it had great nutritional value.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Posted:Well the general rule seems to be 'everything in moderation', if thirsty you are better of pouring yourself a glass of water than milk whether it be cow or soy. I'm going to post some extracts from Food for Thought by Philip Day, a book I highly recommend anyone interested in nutrition should read, it contains articles, dietary advice and recipes.
THE SHADOW OF SOY by Sean McNary Carson
One of the favourite mantras of soy advocates is th\t the ubiquious bean has been used 'safely by Asians for thousands of years'. With many soy' experts' (often with ties to the soy industry) recommending more than 250g of soy foods - and in some case more than 100mg if isoflavones each day -it's easy toget the impression that soy plays a major role in the Asian diet....
'The tradition with soy is that it was fermented for a long time and then eaten ..not as a replacement for animal foods' The asian diet - far from centring around soy is based on meat. Approximately 65% of Japanese calorie intake comes from fish in Japan and same from pork in China.
Contrast that with modern America, home of 'if a little is good for you, more must be better'.
One of the biggest concerns about high intake of soy iso flaones is their clearly defined toxic effects on the thyroid gland. Dr. Larrian Gillespie (author of the Menopause Diet) says the daily amount to cause thyroid problems may be as low as 30mg or less than a serving of soymilk.
Soy Online Services , a website devoted to informing people about the potential problems with soy, stresses the potential dangers for the developing human body: 'Any person with any kind of understanding of environmental endocrine disruptors, compounds [like isoflavones] that are not in the body normally and can modify hormones and the way they work in the body, any expert will say that infants need to avoid these things like the plague'.
Safe bet: If it hasn't been eaten safely for thousands of years, you probably shouldn't put it at the centre of your diet. ..Perhaps the safest way to use soy.. is the way it's been used by Asians for thousands of years: fermented, in moderation, as a condiment.
MILK -MASS HUMAN FOOD (or commercial mouthwash) by Philip Day
Physiologically, humans are designed to feed from their mother's milk, but following weaning the humans in many cases lose the enzyme required to break down milk proteins, rendering them 'lactose intolerant'.
There are problems caused by EXCESSIVE milk consumption...small amounts of milk and milk products for those who can consume them are OK. Milk however must NOT be viewed as an essential human food past infanthood. It is NOT an ideal source of calcium or human protein, and often creates more problems than it is worth with acidosis.
- Cow's milk is designed to make baby cows into big cows.
- Humans are the only mammals which are waned off our mother's milk only to spend the rest of our lives stuck under the udders of a cow.
- Milk is often viewed by many as a more exciting alternative to fresh, clean water.
- Renin and lactase, the two enzynmes responsible for breaking down milk in the human body are usually gone from teh human body by the time we are three years old. People who retain these problems do not have a problem digesting milk. Then again, many do have problems (lactose intolerance). With these..
- Milk creates digestion problems because humans cannot assimilate it efficiently
- Milk can contain traces of the drugs fed to cattle to increase milk yield and the weight of the animal for slaughter: Bovine Growth Hormone (BGH), antibiotics, steroidsm estradiol, insecticides, pesticides.
- Milk contains blood and (white) pus cells from the cow
Cow's milk has higher levels of protein for the development of big bones
- Milk is deficient in essential fatty acids, such as linoleic acid required for neurological development (cows are not noted for their mental gymnastics).
- Cow's milk contains coarse calcium that cannot be absorbed properly by humans.
- Pasteurisation kills enzymes and damages amino acids is milk.
- Milk creates acid toxicity in the body
-Milk is one of the most mucus-forming substances on the planet
- Excessive milk consumption has been linked to Type 1 Diabetes, heart disease, cancer, asthma and ear infections in children.
Conclusion: go easy on the white stuff.
THE SHADOW OF SOY by Sean McNary Carson
One of the favourite mantras of soy advocates is th\t the ubiquious bean has been used 'safely by Asians for thousands of years'. With many soy' experts' (often with ties to the soy industry) recommending more than 250g of soy foods - and in some case more than 100mg if isoflavones each day -it's easy toget the impression that soy plays a major role in the Asian diet....
'The tradition with soy is that it was fermented for a long time and then eaten ..not as a replacement for animal foods' The asian diet - far from centring around soy is based on meat. Approximately 65% of Japanese calorie intake comes from fish in Japan and same from pork in China.
Contrast that with modern America, home of 'if a little is good for you, more must be better'.
One of the biggest concerns about high intake of soy iso flaones is their clearly defined toxic effects on the thyroid gland. Dr. Larrian Gillespie (author of the Menopause Diet) says the daily amount to cause thyroid problems may be as low as 30mg or less than a serving of soymilk.
Soy Online Services , a website devoted to informing people about the potential problems with soy, stresses the potential dangers for the developing human body: 'Any person with any kind of understanding of environmental endocrine disruptors, compounds [like isoflavones] that are not in the body normally and can modify hormones and the way they work in the body, any expert will say that infants need to avoid these things like the plague'.
Safe bet: If it hasn't been eaten safely for thousands of years, you probably shouldn't put it at the centre of your diet. ..Perhaps the safest way to use soy.. is the way it's been used by Asians for thousands of years: fermented, in moderation, as a condiment.
MILK -MASS HUMAN FOOD (or commercial mouthwash) by Philip Day
Physiologically, humans are designed to feed from their mother's milk, but following weaning the humans in many cases lose the enzyme required to break down milk proteins, rendering them 'lactose intolerant'.
There are problems caused by EXCESSIVE milk consumption...small amounts of milk and milk products for those who can consume them are OK. Milk however must NOT be viewed as an essential human food past infanthood. It is NOT an ideal source of calcium or human protein, and often creates more problems than it is worth with acidosis.
- Cow's milk is designed to make baby cows into big cows.
- Humans are the only mammals which are waned off our mother's milk only to spend the rest of our lives stuck under the udders of a cow.
- Milk is often viewed by many as a more exciting alternative to fresh, clean water.
- Renin and lactase, the two enzynmes responsible for breaking down milk in the human body are usually gone from teh human body by the time we are three years old. People who retain these problems do not have a problem digesting milk. Then again, many do have problems (lactose intolerance). With these..
- Milk creates digestion problems because humans cannot assimilate it efficiently
- Milk can contain traces of the drugs fed to cattle to increase milk yield and the weight of the animal for slaughter: Bovine Growth Hormone (BGH), antibiotics, steroidsm estradiol, insecticides, pesticides.
- Milk contains blood and (white) pus cells from the cow
Cow's milk has higher levels of protein for the development of big bones
- Milk is deficient in essential fatty acids, such as linoleic acid required for neurological development (cows are not noted for their mental gymnastics).
- Cow's milk contains coarse calcium that cannot be absorbed properly by humans.
- Pasteurisation kills enzymes and damages amino acids is milk.
- Milk creates acid toxicity in the body
-Milk is one of the most mucus-forming substances on the planet
- Excessive milk consumption has been linked to Type 1 Diabetes, heart disease, cancer, asthma and ear infections in children.
Conclusion: go easy on the white stuff.
Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.
- W B Yeats
Posted:i am vegan and have been for two years because i developed a milk allergy. this allergy means i cant eat/drink milk and milk byproducts or anything with milk, whey or lactose in. before becomeing vegan i already knew alot about veaganism because i know many people who are vegan. before becoming a vegan i HATED soy 'milk'. i love chocolate and (apart from boja-boja) you just cant by good chocolate without milk.
however on the subject of soy 'milk', 'cheese', 'cream', 'icecream' ect there are many alternatives.
i have found that lots of them taste crap but all you have to do is find the right one for you.
'milk'= alpro organic unsweetened. this is organic which really makes a difference. if you get sweetened you think it will taste nicer but it doesn't and that makes you think "what does unsweetened taste like then?", well in truth it tastes worse but if you get unsweetened and put sugar, honey or syrup in it, it tastes great.
swidish glase has got to be the best icecream and NO MILK it comes in all the best flavours mocca, chocolate, vanila.
as for yoghurts and cream i would say get alpro youghurt and you wont know the difference (i like it better) and cream isn't that bad it doesn't taste like cows cream but i never liked that anyway.
when i wasn't veagan i didn't really like cheese and i agree with many peole that say vegan cheese isn't as good BUT you can get a lovely maxican vegan 'cheese' that is the taste, texture and smell of cheese and IT DOES MELT.
also if you taste provamel chocolate soya shake you won't want to drink anyother milkshake again!!!
luv trixy
p.s anyone with a milk intolerence/allergy, do you find that the smell of cheese, milk, yoghurt makes you want to through-up?
i wont let my mum cook cheese while i'm in the house now and if i come home hours after she has had cheese i can still smell it and others can't.
however on the subject of soy 'milk', 'cheese', 'cream', 'icecream' ect there are many alternatives.
i have found that lots of them taste crap but all you have to do is find the right one for you.
'milk'= alpro organic unsweetened. this is organic which really makes a difference. if you get sweetened you think it will taste nicer but it doesn't and that makes you think "what does unsweetened taste like then?", well in truth it tastes worse but if you get unsweetened and put sugar, honey or syrup in it, it tastes great.
swidish glase has got to be the best icecream and NO MILK it comes in all the best flavours mocca, chocolate, vanila.
as for yoghurts and cream i would say get alpro youghurt and you wont know the difference (i like it better) and cream isn't that bad it doesn't taste like cows cream but i never liked that anyway.
when i wasn't veagan i didn't really like cheese and i agree with many peole that say vegan cheese isn't as good BUT you can get a lovely maxican vegan 'cheese' that is the taste, texture and smell of cheese and IT DOES MELT.
also if you taste provamel chocolate soya shake you won't want to drink anyother milkshake again!!!
luv trixy
p.s anyone with a milk intolerence/allergy, do you find that the smell of cheese, milk, yoghurt makes you want to through-up?
i wont let my mum cook cheese while i'm in the house now and if i come home hours after she has had cheese i can still smell it and others can't.
THAT'S ABOUT AS SENSIBLE AS STANDING ON A HILL, IN A THUNDER STORM, HOLDING A GOLF CLUB AND SHOUTING AT THE TOP OF YOUR VOICE /ALL GOD'S ARE *BASTADS* -THE GREAT TERRY PRATCHETT.
Deleteflid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002
![flid]()
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Total posts: 3136
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Total posts: 3136
Posted:the feeling sick thing is more likely psycosomatic, your body's instinctive reaction to make sure you avoid it. I actually know quite a few lactose intollerant people now, and only one of them takes any notice and avoids all milk products. Another avoids it straight or in tea, but still eats cheese etc (ie the main sources of milk products in the diet). It doesn't make them sick, although they do have lactose intollerant reactions - rashes etc. My choice to not drink animal milk is purely ethical, i'm not allergic to cows milk. That said, i have in the past felt sick when sipped the wrong tea, or eaten something which i later find had milk products in it. This is purely because i've been vegan long enough to where it's integrated into my mind down to the level of instinct.
I've never gotten along with sweetening traditional soya milk, i also don't view honey as being a vegan product. What is the brand of this mexican 'cheese'? Is it aunt biddy's (or whatever her name is, i haven't tried it in the past few years)? There was a time when i still held out for vegan cheese that wasn't totally grim and monitored the new products situation, but alas i gave up hope a while ago now. Good chocolate without milk is not a problem, but you hafta source out good quality belgium dark chocolate (ie not the crap they sell in onestop). The chocolate making process is long and labourous (read the info on the green and blacks website if you have 20 mins to kill), and cheap chocolate that cuts corners/with low cocoa solids content will tastes gross without lots of fat (either from vegetable or milk). Chocolate is a lot like coffee, cheap and nasty stuff *needs* milk and sugar to hide it's bitterness, where as good quality expresso/americano made using a proper high 'bar' machine requires neither. I probably spend too much on chocolate, but then i'd rather spend money on it and things like olive oil than fags.
Fresh chocolate alpro/uht chocolate provemel is pretty good, but as far as chocolate milkshake goes it really can't compete with soya milk heated with belgium chocolate, then cooled and blended with vanilla swedish glace. You can make fruit milkshakes with soya milk, fruit and swedish glace, but i prefer fresh smoothies and can thoroughly recomend aquiring either a smoothie machine or blender that can crush ice. In my icecream opinion, Swedish glace makes the best vanilla, but there's more exciting flavours out there than their others. Sainsbury's freefrom icecream looks vegan ingrediants wise (but is not labelled so, i assume because their supplier won't say either way) and there's various flavours of tofutti (all of which take the ben and jerrys naming approach and sound way better than they taste). I wish they'd sell swedish glace vanilla in 4 pint tubs thou, i get through at least 1 a week. I've never found any cream that i like, the last time i used it it ruined a perfectly good sauce in the final step. Both Sainsbury's freefrom and alpro custurd taste great, but a little pricey and I've been too lazy to develop my own version from scratch (which can't be too hard).
Of course, the original poster of this thread lives several thusand miles from the UK, so most of it won't make the slightest bit of sense
I've never gotten along with sweetening traditional soya milk, i also don't view honey as being a vegan product. What is the brand of this mexican 'cheese'? Is it aunt biddy's (or whatever her name is, i haven't tried it in the past few years)? There was a time when i still held out for vegan cheese that wasn't totally grim and monitored the new products situation, but alas i gave up hope a while ago now. Good chocolate without milk is not a problem, but you hafta source out good quality belgium dark chocolate (ie not the crap they sell in onestop). The chocolate making process is long and labourous (read the info on the green and blacks website if you have 20 mins to kill), and cheap chocolate that cuts corners/with low cocoa solids content will tastes gross without lots of fat (either from vegetable or milk). Chocolate is a lot like coffee, cheap and nasty stuff *needs* milk and sugar to hide it's bitterness, where as good quality expresso/americano made using a proper high 'bar' machine requires neither. I probably spend too much on chocolate, but then i'd rather spend money on it and things like olive oil than fags.
Fresh chocolate alpro/uht chocolate provemel is pretty good, but as far as chocolate milkshake goes it really can't compete with soya milk heated with belgium chocolate, then cooled and blended with vanilla swedish glace. You can make fruit milkshakes with soya milk, fruit and swedish glace, but i prefer fresh smoothies and can thoroughly recomend aquiring either a smoothie machine or blender that can crush ice. In my icecream opinion, Swedish glace makes the best vanilla, but there's more exciting flavours out there than their others. Sainsbury's freefrom icecream looks vegan ingrediants wise (but is not labelled so, i assume because their supplier won't say either way) and there's various flavours of tofutti (all of which take the ben and jerrys naming approach and sound way better than they taste). I wish they'd sell swedish glace vanilla in 4 pint tubs thou, i get through at least 1 a week. I've never found any cream that i like, the last time i used it it ruined a perfectly good sauce in the final step. Both Sainsbury's freefrom and alpro custurd taste great, but a little pricey and I've been too lazy to develop my own version from scratch (which can't be too hard).
Of course, the original poster of this thread lives several thusand miles from the UK, so most of it won't make the slightest bit of sense
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Posted:I'm not so sure about the nutritional qualities of soy milk but I am pretty sure that cows milk isn't that great for you. I remember reading in a book that there are 64 different steroids and antibiotics that are pumped into dairy cows (here in the states) so that they will produce large quantities of untainted milk. The book went on to explain how studies had been conducted to confirm that many of these steroids and antibiotics end up in the milk we drink in concentrations of up to 300% larger than the amounts being claimed by the producers. The cow antibiotics that end up in the milk we drink can compromise the body's natural immune system. As for the steroids...well, I don't think you want to be taking steroids, especially cow steroids.
I would like to eliminate milk from my diet but I enjoy all my milky beverages very much. My solution is to use organic milk (to avoid all the steroids and antibiotics) until I am able to eliminate milk from my diet completely.
I would like to eliminate milk from my diet but I enjoy all my milky beverages very much. My solution is to use organic milk (to avoid all the steroids and antibiotics) until I am able to eliminate milk from my diet completely.
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