Forums > Technical Discussion > WRAPS: ballchain vs. link chain vs. twisted cable vs. ?, & special considerations
Login/Join to ParticipateLaguna dude
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
Posted:
New & unanswered Best-Chain-for-Wraps questions for all you pros and wrap-fiends, in a dedicated thread. This thread more about the equipment than the wrap move technique, though of course we're drawing on that too, for answers.
I've just searched through the archives about what chain works best for wraps. At first I thought of honoring old posts with links here on what's been said so far, but more concisely, this seems to be the summary:
Most people prefer ballchain, it's even said to "untangle itself" so if it gets caught with flame near your body in a wrap, you can get out of it faster, though Bob at Renegade in Santa Cruz, CA just told me on the phone he feared the balls would wrap around each other and catch. He doesn't sell ballchain, and until I updated him, thought wraps only occurred as mistakes, and he promises he's going to Burning Man to get updated on what we're actually doing as he doesn't spin.
Malcolm and Adam, from their posts touching this subject, and their retail offerings, note that more professional spinners tend to prefer ballchain, and even positively recommend it.
Fewer people spoke of wrapping with linkchain, so I'd like to hear explicitly about how this goes.
Twisted wire cord is attested to hurt after a few wraps, to scratch when frayed, and its crimped cut ends or their hardware can graze. Does anyone regularly wrap with this? calvran in our local crew has twisted wire cord, but plans to move to link chain very soon.
Besides getting some direct opinions on this topic here, with latest updates from everyone's experience, here are a few new questions:
(1) How does each chain type behave around the limb or body part or other object during wraps? Which conforms best to arms and legs, as a standard, which sticks, which is easiest to trigger into unwrapping, which unwraps easiest, and recovers into the next move easiest?
(2) Do any chain types snag with body hair during wraps? Who's had hair pulled to tell us? Or clothing? Some have told me daringly of wrapping legs wearing jeans.
(3) Any difference in chain heat near the firehead bothering your flesh during wraps?
(4) How many times are you wrapping around your limb/object, and with what chain length? Some tell us they tug on the chain from its handle to start unwrapping, some flick the wrapped limb. Probably tugging won't work if you wrap beyond...what, a circumference and a half (one and a half times around a limb) because like a spool of thread, there's too much traction between the limb and the coils of chain wrapping it?
(5) If the firehead ends up more below than above or beside your limb, if there's any pause or slowness in unwrapping, the flame height becomes a danger, right? Anyone take this into account in chain length, or actually design length plus practice to have the final position of the firehead at it wraps in a certain angle from the wrapped limb?
(6) Are there speed implications in wraps from different chain types?
(7) Anything to say about weight and shape of the firehead in wraps, especially in relation to the chain type and its weight? So it seems generally recommended to have a heavier head than chain; are some too heavy to easily flick off your arm to start an unwrap?
(8) Does anyone use any other chain besides these 3 when doing wraps?
(9) What other issues and differences?
Would greatly like to know.
[ 31 July 2002, 15:12: Message edited by: FireMike ]
New & unanswered Best-Chain-for-Wraps questions for all you pros and wrap-fiends, in a dedicated thread. This thread more about the equipment than the wrap move technique, though of course we're drawing on that too, for answers.
I've just searched through the archives about what chain works best for wraps. At first I thought of honoring old posts with links here on what's been said so far, but more concisely, this seems to be the summary:
Most people prefer ballchain, it's even said to "untangle itself" so if it gets caught with flame near your body in a wrap, you can get out of it faster, though Bob at Renegade in Santa Cruz, CA just told me on the phone he feared the balls would wrap around each other and catch. He doesn't sell ballchain, and until I updated him, thought wraps only occurred as mistakes, and he promises he's going to Burning Man to get updated on what we're actually doing as he doesn't spin.
Malcolm and Adam, from their posts touching this subject, and their retail offerings, note that more professional spinners tend to prefer ballchain, and even positively recommend it.
Fewer people spoke of wrapping with linkchain, so I'd like to hear explicitly about how this goes.
Twisted wire cord is attested to hurt after a few wraps, to scratch when frayed, and its crimped cut ends or their hardware can graze. Does anyone regularly wrap with this? calvran in our local crew has twisted wire cord, but plans to move to link chain very soon.
Besides getting some direct opinions on this topic here, with latest updates from everyone's experience, here are a few new questions:
(1) How does each chain type behave around the limb or body part or other object during wraps? Which conforms best to arms and legs, as a standard, which sticks, which is easiest to trigger into unwrapping, which unwraps easiest, and recovers into the next move easiest?
(2) Do any chain types snag with body hair during wraps? Who's had hair pulled to tell us? Or clothing? Some have told me daringly of wrapping legs wearing jeans.
(3) Any difference in chain heat near the firehead bothering your flesh during wraps?
(4) How many times are you wrapping around your limb/object, and with what chain length? Some tell us they tug on the chain from its handle to start unwrapping, some flick the wrapped limb. Probably tugging won't work if you wrap beyond...what, a circumference and a half (one and a half times around a limb) because like a spool of thread, there's too much traction between the limb and the coils of chain wrapping it?
(5) If the firehead ends up more below than above or beside your limb, if there's any pause or slowness in unwrapping, the flame height becomes a danger, right? Anyone take this into account in chain length, or actually design length plus practice to have the final position of the firehead at it wraps in a certain angle from the wrapped limb?
(6) Are there speed implications in wraps from different chain types?
(7) Anything to say about weight and shape of the firehead in wraps, especially in relation to the chain type and its weight? So it seems generally recommended to have a heavier head than chain; are some too heavy to easily flick off your arm to start an unwrap?
(8) Does anyone use any other chain besides these 3 when doing wraps?
(9) What other issues and differences?
Would greatly like to know.
[ 31 July 2002, 15:12: Message edited by: FireMike ]
molten cheers,
~ FireMike
FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US
SILVER Member
member
15 posts
Location: Manchester, MA, USA
member
15 posts
Location: Manchester, MA, USA
Posted:
I have had hair caught in the ball chains maybe twice while doing wraps so while it is possible it's not very likly and ball chain is definitely the way to go as far as I'm concerned.
I have had hair caught in the ball chains maybe twice while doing wraps so while it is possible it's not very likly and ball chain is definitely the way to go as far as I'm concerned.
HoP Lurker
272 posts
Location: Medway, Kent, UK
272 posts
Location: Medway, Kent, UK
Posted:
Sorry I haven't laid this out as well as you did being lazy
I use quite heavy chain link chain link, I do want to try ball chain though. Only reason I want cable is for my non fire-poi.
I do some wrist/arm/crotch/thigh/leg wraps.
I usualy wear short sleeve t-shirts and full length jeans/combats
Since my poi are self constructed, I have made the length so I can perform my prefered wraps at the exact distance I want them to be.
No chain burn, this is why I have fears of cable.
Problems I have,
My chain is so heavy that when doing wrist wraps it gets almost painfully tight.
Sorry I haven't laid this out as well as you did being lazy
I use quite heavy chain link chain link, I do want to try ball chain though. Only reason I want cable is for my non fire-poi.
I do some wrist/arm/crotch/thigh/leg wraps.
I usualy wear short sleeve t-shirts and full length jeans/combats
Since my poi are self constructed, I have made the length so I can perform my prefered wraps at the exact distance I want them to be.
No chain burn, this is why I have fears of cable.
Problems I have,
My chain is so heavy that when doing wrist wraps it gets almost painfully tight.
*Oh, just for a minute,* my bed said.
"Don't lie to me," I grumbled.
*But you're so tired...*
Laguna dude
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
Posted:
so far,
sindominia, a rare little pain still makes ballchain best for you,
and sub, you want link chain lighter than your current heavy ones, but not so thin it might start to burn (from cold friction, and from conducted heat?) like a fine whip?
so far,
sindominia, a rare little pain still makes ballchain best for you,
and sub, you want link chain lighter than your current heavy ones, but not so thin it might start to burn (from cold friction, and from conducted heat?) like a fine whip?
molten cheers,
~ FireMike
FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US
HoP Lurker
272 posts
Location: Medway, Kent, UK
272 posts
Location: Medway, Kent, UK
Posted:
Only reason I use heavy chains is cause I hadn't gotten any worthwile exercise prior to starting poi. I like a half decent work out when I play with me fire-poi.
I've actually got a set(2) of 1m very heavy chains which I will start using when I lose my mind.
This also means that I rarely(if ever) borrow poi that are too heavy for me, and lights ones I can play with for hours without melting myself. I fully intend to make some floaty light practice poi at some point, my fat-poi are about as heavy as my fire-poi.
I wish my wicks were heavier though and cathedral style.
I really want some heavy ball chain but haven't found anywhere that sells the right size, max weight.
Only reason I use heavy chains is cause I hadn't gotten any worthwile exercise prior to starting poi. I like a half decent work out when I play with me fire-poi.
I've actually got a set(2) of 1m very heavy chains which I will start using when I lose my mind.
This also means that I rarely(if ever) borrow poi that are too heavy for me, and lights ones I can play with for hours without melting myself. I fully intend to make some floaty light practice poi at some point, my fat-poi are about as heavy as my fire-poi.
I wish my wicks were heavier though and cathedral style.
I really want some heavy ball chain but haven't found anywhere that sells the right size, max weight.
*Oh, just for a minute,* my bed said.
"Don't lie to me," I grumbled.
*But you're so tired...*
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