Forums > Social Chat > Misuse of term 'fascist'
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Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I've noticed that the term 'fascist' is being used in a slipshod fashion.
A recent thread: -
https://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006088
about an article on a group which offered long term birth control to addicts compared the groups aims to those of Nazi Germay.
Nothing factual in the article justified this allegation.
Several posters engaged in the typical knee jerk reaction that the term 'fascist' seems to provoke before a couple of people actually read the full thing and realised that this was incorrect.
Similarly with some of the recent 'drugs and choice' threads we have had people who start using terms like 'totalitarianism' at posts which merely suggest that there are some bad aspects to drug use.
Given that the atrocities of fascism are only possible because of the sheep like nature of humanity, it seems out of order for the term 'facism' to be used in an attempt to influence people by knee jerk reaction rather than reason.
I have no love of fascism, some of the most horrible acts of humanity have been committed in its name; but one of the prime weapons of fascism is to use invalid reason dressed up in symbological/emotional language to provoke set piece responses from large groups of people.
I've noticed that the term 'fascist' is being used in a slipshod fashion.
A recent thread: -
https://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006088
about an article on a group which offered long term birth control to addicts compared the groups aims to those of Nazi Germay.
Nothing factual in the article justified this allegation.
Several posters engaged in the typical knee jerk reaction that the term 'fascist' seems to provoke before a couple of people actually read the full thing and realised that this was incorrect.
Similarly with some of the recent 'drugs and choice' threads we have had people who start using terms like 'totalitarianism' at posts which merely suggest that there are some bad aspects to drug use.
Given that the atrocities of fascism are only possible because of the sheep like nature of humanity, it seems out of order for the term 'facism' to be used in an attempt to influence people by knee jerk reaction rather than reason.
I have no love of fascism, some of the most horrible acts of humanity have been committed in its name; but one of the prime weapons of fascism is to use invalid reason dressed up in symbological/emotional language to provoke set piece responses from large groups of people.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I'm with you Dave. It's a pet peeve of mine as well. It seems that any bad leader is immidiately compred to Hitler as well. Our mayor is constantly compared with Hitler every time he raises parking tickets fines or enforces fire hazard laws.
It does dilute the actual attrocities. I was going to make that point a while ago (an may have actually done so) but it's good to have it revisited.
I'm with you Dave. It's a pet peeve of mine as well. It seems that any bad leader is immidiately compred to Hitler as well. Our mayor is constantly compared with Hitler every time he raises parking tickets fines or enforces fire hazard laws.
It does dilute the actual attrocities. I was going to make that point a while ago (an may have actually done so) but it's good to have it revisited.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
HoP Mechanical Engineer
729 posts
Location: OK, USA
729 posts
Location: OK, USA
Posted:
My personal beef is with misuse of the term "feminazi."
The original term, as coinced by Rush Limbaugh, applies to radical feminists who believe in having as many abortions as possible just so they can exemplify a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. Destroying life to make a point of their own power, more or less.
The term nowadays seems to be applied to women just if someone doesn't like them. I hope people can learn the real meaning behind this word and figure out the appropriate context, because I don't believe it's right to compare a girl to a Nazi just because she happens to tick you off.
My personal beef is with misuse of the term "feminazi."
The original term, as coinced by Rush Limbaugh, applies to radical feminists who believe in having as many abortions as possible just so they can exemplify a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. Destroying life to make a point of their own power, more or less.
The term nowadays seems to be applied to women just if someone doesn't like them. I hope people can learn the real meaning behind this word and figure out the appropriate context, because I don't believe it's right to compare a girl to a Nazi just because she happens to tick you off.
What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
That's interesting Dio.
It's not a word I've ever heard of before.
I've just done a search giving the following results: -
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22feminazi%22&btnG=Google+Search
and you're right, most are taking it to mean a form of extreme feminism.
Is there not a sense though, in which the 'real meaning' of 'feminazi' is an example of misuse.
i.e. the strict definition of 'nazi' is 'a member of the German fascist party'
and a looser meaning would be someone with fascist attitudes or someone who believed in a small group of people exercising their will over others.
None of which really has anything to do with having lots of abortions.
That's interesting Dio.
It's not a word I've ever heard of before.
I've just done a search giving the following results: -
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22feminazi%22&btnG=Google+Search
and you're right, most are taking it to mean a form of extreme feminism.
Is there not a sense though, in which the 'real meaning' of 'feminazi' is an example of misuse.
i.e. the strict definition of 'nazi' is 'a member of the German fascist party'
and a looser meaning would be someone with fascist attitudes or someone who believed in a small group of people exercising their will over others.
None of which really has anything to do with having lots of abortions.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
Josh
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I agree that the term "Nazi" gets thrown around too much.
The Nazis believed in forcing a singular world-view on the populace, controlling expression and thought, and using whatever means to enforce their views.
Certain ideas and actions are Nazi-like, yes this is true. However, JUST BECAUSE HITLER DID SOMETHING DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY MAKE IT BAD. He made trains run on time and rebuilt Germany's infrastructure. He was a vegetarian. He actually did some good things. Of course he was an evil man, but just because he did something doesn't make it bad.
I agree that the term "Nazi" gets thrown around too much.
The Nazis believed in forcing a singular world-view on the populace, controlling expression and thought, and using whatever means to enforce their views.
Certain ideas and actions are Nazi-like, yes this is true. However, JUST BECAUSE HITLER DID SOMETHING DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY MAKE IT BAD. He made trains run on time and rebuilt Germany's infrastructure. He was a vegetarian. He actually did some good things. Of course he was an evil man, but just because he did something doesn't make it bad.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
In addition, the closed minded response to nazisim and Hitler as being evil people responsible for mass murder, is in danger of missing the point that these actions where only possible through the cooperation of millions of individuals.
i.e. I feel that it is more important to understand the processes by which normal human beings can, in great numbers, participate in atrocities.
It is simplistic and harmful to cite an individual/group of individuals as being the major cause.
In addition, the closed minded response to nazisim and Hitler as being evil people responsible for mass murder, is in danger of missing the point that these actions where only possible through the cooperation of millions of individuals.
i.e. I feel that it is more important to understand the processes by which normal human beings can, in great numbers, participate in atrocities.
It is simplistic and harmful to cite an individual/group of individuals as being the major cause.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
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674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
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674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
Posted:
* I am only playing devils advocate, and this post may not actually reflect my real views *
But you can use the term "fascist" in the correct manner. Just because YOU identify it with a certain country/government/time does not mean that the person who said it MEANT it to be taken that way. You will notice that several people have switched from fascist to "totalitarian" in some of those posts for this reason. I say "Nazi" and you think German death camps, which is YOUR identification (And Nazism IS it's own form of goverment. The word stems from the term "National Socialism" and is shortened...). Still I digress, to call something Nazi is just asking for it...
However saying that fascism is meant to identify Mussolini is silly. Saying "Fascism" perhaps, notice the capitalization. But fascism is "a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control", and is quite close to the context used in many of these posts.
* End rant *
Even then, you are correct that it carries a little extra hidden meaning that someone can misinterpret, but that is not the posters mistake. Hell I've been accused of hiding insults to people on boards before when I was trying to use semi-diplomatic language to explain a point. Everyone takes things differently, and sometimes terminology get's misused, but I think that in this case, at LEAST linguistically it is correct, though a better term like "totalitarian" might have been better.
* I am only playing devils advocate, and this post may not actually reflect my real views *
But you can use the term "fascist" in the correct manner. Just because YOU identify it with a certain country/government/time does not mean that the person who said it MEANT it to be taken that way. You will notice that several people have switched from fascist to "totalitarian" in some of those posts for this reason. I say "Nazi" and you think German death camps, which is YOUR identification (And Nazism IS it's own form of goverment. The word stems from the term "National Socialism" and is shortened...). Still I digress, to call something Nazi is just asking for it...
However saying that fascism is meant to identify Mussolini is silly. Saying "Fascism" perhaps, notice the capitalization. But fascism is "a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control", and is quite close to the context used in many of these posts.
* End rant *
Even then, you are correct that it carries a little extra hidden meaning that someone can misinterpret, but that is not the posters mistake. Hell I've been accused of hiding insults to people on boards before when I was trying to use semi-diplomatic language to explain a point. Everyone takes things differently, and sometimes terminology get's misused, but I think that in this case, at LEAST linguistically it is correct, though a better term like "totalitarian" might have been better.
Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
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4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Posted:
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"
Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Posted:
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"
Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Posted:
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"
Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Posted:
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"
Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Posted:
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"
Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Posted:
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"
Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Posted:
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"
Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Posted:
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
two things come in mind ;
one is the danger of making a word or , more importantly a concept, just meaningless because of misusing or abusing it. Take the word love for example, the fact that I LOVE cheese, and dancing, and and and and (this is especially true in French where we do not even have the word 'LIKE' ) makes it a bit empty maybe when I tell my prince that I love him...
same goes with those words, by making 'nazi' a regular insult , an expression of light annoyance, we take away its meaning.
I remember seeing a documentary in Japan and people playing war role games as a hobby. They were assuming the identity of this or that army and a group had the Swastika on the flag and were the nazis. they did not think much of it as they said : it is just for the game... as much as I know the swastika existed way before the nazis took it for them, i also know that now it is not meaningless to chose the nazi symbol to play... so yes different people view things differently but by not letting them know the depth and concepts and history they are missing I feel we are making a mistake.
and comparing any political figure with hitler just because they are not being good leaders is a crime and an insult.
an insult to those who suffered from the crimes against humanity and a crime because it can justify the assassination of that one political leader because if he is hitler, then some people might find it a good enough justification for murdering them.. it has happened not so long ago.
sorry i got carried away and started on the Nazi bit rather than your original fascist subject which is another misconception I know because these are two very separate regimes even though they interacted in darker times of history.
shine on
Cass
Much much respect and appreciation of that post and the questions it creates .
two things come in mind ;
one is the danger of making a word or , more importantly a concept, just meaningless because of misusing or abusing it. Take the word love for example, the fact that I LOVE cheese, and dancing, and and and and (this is especially true in French where we do not even have the word 'LIKE' ) makes it a bit empty maybe when I tell my prince that I love him...
same goes with those words, by making 'nazi' a regular insult , an expression of light annoyance, we take away its meaning.
I remember seeing a documentary in Japan and people playing war role games as a hobby. They were assuming the identity of this or that army and a group had the Swastika on the flag and were the nazis. they did not think much of it as they said : it is just for the game... as much as I know the swastika existed way before the nazis took it for them, i also know that now it is not meaningless to chose the nazi symbol to play... so yes different people view things differently but by not letting them know the depth and concepts and history they are missing I feel we are making a mistake.
and comparing any political figure with hitler just because they are not being good leaders is a crime and an insult.
an insult to those who suffered from the crimes against humanity and a crime because it can justify the assassination of that one political leader because if he is hitler, then some people might find it a good enough justification for murdering them.. it has happened not so long ago.
sorry i got carried away and started on the Nazi bit rather than your original fascist subject which is another misconception I know because these are two very separate regimes even though they interacted in darker times of history.
shine on
Cass
"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
Guys, dont let the term Nazi or Fascist get to you, I get it all the time for enforcing rules that keep people alive while at the armoury and at the rifle range.
It gets abused and people say it to be mean, however there isnt much you can do about what people say.
Dont worry about it.
Guys, dont let the term Nazi or Fascist get to you, I get it all the time for enforcing rules that keep people alive while at the armoury and at the rifle range.
It gets abused and people say it to be mean, however there isnt much you can do about what people say.
Dont worry about it.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Posted:
while you can say NAZI and know exactly what it mean, its much harder to do that with Facist, because the only form of facism that we have as a generation to work off was Mussolini in Italy during the 2nd world war!
now if you have studied that period (like i did, so please if you have i did study it a long time ago, so some of my info is rusty and out of date, so i am sorry now) you will know that he made it up as he went along and was stopped on points by teh church, and surounded himself with guys and gals who would just say yes unlike hitler who brutally enforced his roles, and his people carried out his oredrers with passion, mussolinis didnt they just agreeded with him to get more power in his gov, taht why nazism is still around and fasitst aint as much, becasue it was not instilled in teh culture, you need to read teh period properly to get it but i could explain this better i am sorry!
anyway it hard to be a facist because it has not been clearly defioned enough, and it often gets confused with nazism due to the links, but there are many factors here that differentiate them, if you want to know more i can let you know or you could read about it...my head hurts now...im off!
while you can say NAZI and know exactly what it mean, its much harder to do that with Facist, because the only form of facism that we have as a generation to work off was Mussolini in Italy during the 2nd world war!
now if you have studied that period (like i did, so please if you have i did study it a long time ago, so some of my info is rusty and out of date, so i am sorry now) you will know that he made it up as he went along and was stopped on points by teh church, and surounded himself with guys and gals who would just say yes unlike hitler who brutally enforced his roles, and his people carried out his oredrers with passion, mussolinis didnt they just agreeded with him to get more power in his gov, taht why nazism is still around and fasitst aint as much, becasue it was not instilled in teh culture, you need to read teh period properly to get it but i could explain this better i am sorry!
anyway it hard to be a facist because it has not been clearly defioned enough, and it often gets confused with nazism due to the links, but there are many factors here that differentiate them, if you want to know more i can let you know or you could read about it...my head hurts now...im off!
Step (el-nombrie)
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
according to the various fanatical left wing societies at my uni [including the delighfully named 'socialist workers party' full of students who dont work], 'fascist' descibes anyone with a different political view, and generally anyone who doenst believe the workers shall rise up in revolution tomoro - meaning the rest of the worlds population.
its defintely an overused term.
according to the various fanatical left wing societies at my uni [including the delighfully named 'socialist workers party' full of students who dont work], 'fascist' descibes anyone with a different political view, and generally anyone who doenst believe the workers shall rise up in revolution tomoro - meaning the rest of the worlds population.
its defintely an overused term.
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
The confusion stems from two diffrent types of right wing politics. To many people have been taught the silly 1 dimensional political spectrum that just has right wing on one side and left on the other.
Ive posted this before but I think it's helpful for this thread.
A more realistic spectrum
The confusion stems from two diffrent types of right wing politics. To many people have been taught the silly 1 dimensional political spectrum that just has right wing on one side and left on the other.
Ive posted this before but I think it's helpful for this thread.
A more realistic spectrum
GOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
Posted:
Haha, sweet I have the same scores as the Dali Llama. Neat little applet.
Haha, sweet I have the same scores as the Dali Llama. Neat little applet.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'm slightly to the right of Ghandi, not far off you and the Dali Llama.
I'm slightly to the right of Ghandi, not far off you and the Dali Llama.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Dunno if the enforced long term birth control equals fascism, but I can see y some people might compared the groups aims to those of Nazi Germany
Hmmmm, an adherence to right-wing authoritarian views, fascist propaganda, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. Hmmmmm, now that sounds familiar. But do they get a free radio?
Dunno if the enforced long term birth control equals fascism, but I can see y some people might compared the groups aims to those of Nazi Germany
quote:source:dictionary dot com
Fascism 1.A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
3. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
Word History: It is fitting that the name of an authoritarian political movement like Fascism, founded in 1919 by Benito Mussolini, should come from the name of a symbol of authority. The Italian name of the movement, fascismo, is derived from fascio, “bundle, (political) group,” but also refers to the movement's emblem, the fasces, a bundle of rods bound around a projecting axe-head that was carried before an ancient Roman magistrate by an attendant as a symbol of authority and power. The name of Mussolini's group of revolutionaries was soon used for similar nationalistic movements in other countries that sought to gain power through violence and ruthlessness, such as National Socialism.
Fascist adj : relating to or characteristic of fascism; "fascist propaganda" n : an adherent of fascism or other right-wing authoritarian views.
Hmmmm, an adherence to right-wing authoritarian views, fascist propaganda, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. Hmmmmm, now that sounds familiar. But do they get a free radio?
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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