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Noir_deluxe
member
Location: Canada
Member Since: 30th Jul 2003
Total posts: 58
Posted:Ok, today seems to be MY day for idiocy nad overall stupidity, so I am going to ask this. Has anyone thought about a POI computer or Console game? My friend is thinking about Modding for some game, I'm not sure which one, and I was like, why not a poi game? You learn tricks, and stuff, and it could actually be good for learning how to do the tricks in real life in my opinion. Would also allow you to see what the different types of poi look like. Electroglo, Fire, staff, firefans, etc. I dunno if my friend likes the idea, but I do. Only an idea at the moment, but what do you other people think of this. And just saying, nothing beats actually doing the poi, performing. I just think this is an interesting idea... Aslo, it could be stupid too, since I am on a roll with stupidity today...

Noir_DDELUX

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pequeno_fuego
pequeno_fuego

member
Location: Poland
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 29
Posted:well as far as you joking (joke!!! )
idea is good but...

this game should be at very high technical level to show how performing tricks and animations should be very good and wellbuild and i think that this kind of game is fast boring types of game (like games about swiming or ar achery or so) so as far as i know myself for me this game will be a toy for a day (if you know what i mean )
well its my opinion
im just unimportant little dwarf but listen tomy words(hihihi)

ps you are joking, aren't you??


peace and rhythm
// Do what you want, let IT be a measure! //

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Noir_deluxe
member
Location: Canada
Member Since: 30th Jul 2003
Total posts: 58
Posted:Haha, I was half-joking, half not, but I was thinking less of a game, more of a 3D tutorial on how to do the tricks. Maybe take out the gameplay part. ut I dunno. Other opinions? I just think it would be cool, with the almost lifelike rendering technology out there, that a realistic poi game could psooibly be created with the right programming. being able to watch someone do poi, and walk around them, in full 3d, could help alot of people in my opinion. Show hand movements etc. This would prolly cost alot of money tho, cuz you would have to do motion capture, but with that does it seem like a good idea? I'm starting to think no....

Noir_DDELUX

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Fire Monkey
member
Location: Chandlers Ford (near Soton)UK
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 176
Posted:So if you pres forwards to backwards a O,X you'll pull off a move?
Could it be like a more technical streets of rage.


Every ones a monkey!
Yes even you!

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Personally, I hope this never, ever, ever happens.

One of the great things about poi is that it gets people away from TVs and computers!


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Noir_deluxe
member
Location: Canada
Member Since: 30th Jul 2003
Total posts: 58
Posted:I c we have some anti technology people here... Well funny. Isn't it poi that brought you on the computer to this website here? Just sayin good sir. And no, I was just thinkin, what if you could watch people do poi, watch super complicated tricks, and slow it down to see how you pull the move off? It could work... I think. But it probably will never happen.

Noir_DDELUX

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Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:Maybe it could be an RPG, where you go adventuring, training in poi and other toys, meeting other poi spinners who you can learn from and trade toys with.

"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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pequeno_fuego
pequeno_fuego

member
Location: Poland
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 29
Posted:maybe you should create this kind of game on NNintendo konsole
then you could play out side far from tv and computers


ofcourse im joking
but idea of 3d tutorial (ofcorse wll done tutorial)is nice, in my area i've got only 2 friends who spin too so if i can watch the tricks in tutorial (you know pase spin the spinner in threee directions )it could be nice

i agre that game idea is not the best but tutorial who knows...


peace and rhythm
// Do what you want, let IT be a measure! //

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Noir_deluxe
member
Location: Canada
Member Since: 30th Jul 2003
Total posts: 58
Posted:Hey Tirion1. Ya see you got the idea, haha. But hey, on a side note, if you ever are goint to venture down to Prague, tell me, I got a bunch of friends there who spin, and they would love to meet new people. So if you ever are gonna go down there, let me know, I'll hook you up, haha.

Noir_DDELUX

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:well, if you wanted to make a tutorial, 3d would be the logical choice. If you've seen the tutorials on the website, then you already know that 2D causes too much squinting! like this guys -->
if twirly movements were rotoscoped or motion-captured, it would allow the dissemination of twirly movements into animated kinematic models, which conveniently -crucially!- could be viewed from any angle and speed, not to mention translucently for Behind-the-whatever moves.
mmm bullet-time isolated buzzsaws wif fire!
The technology's there, but it's overkill for a purpose that can already be adequately fulfilled with 2d footage of mr Inferno spinning stuff

i fear for the credibility of poi if it were to be reduced to a character's novelty move.
One only has to remember that *many* people i mention capoeira to relate only though the tekken series of playstation games. If you can stomach something you love reduced to Mazda's zoom-zoom-zoom ad campaign, then all the power to you!

<-- i am still squinty!


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:quote:Orginally posted by )spanner(

Maybe it could be an RPG, where you go adventuring, training in poi and other toys, meeting other poi spinners who you can learn from and trade toys with.
i like this idea......


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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Dio
Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA
Member Since: 11th Jul 2002
Total posts: 729
Posted:::weeps at the onset of replacing real poi performers with synthespians::

What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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shadow steppin
shadow steppin

official hop irken
Location: Tucson USA
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 401
Posted:RPG sounds pretty kewl. you can use your poi to battle alien hordes or land airplanes. What a great idea im gonna go to the airport and do poi to confuse pilots i didnt have time to read all the posts but did anyone suggest a DDR type poi game . they have full motion sensor things now. that would be kinda kewl you could have music selection and to people could compete it could be on all kinds of backgrounds like floatin through space or sumfin.

In my hands I hold your smile and in my heart it runs so wild You are the one you are unique I'm so in love you make me weak And the reason that I feel is like a shadow from a light so if you have the chance to be with me be my shadow in the night

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shadow steppin
shadow steppin

official hop irken
Location: Tucson USA
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 401
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Noir_deluxe:
I c we have some anti technology people here... Well funny. Isn't it poi that brought you on the computer to this website here? Just sayin good sir. And no, I was just thinkin, what if you could watch people do poi, watch super complicated tricks, and slow it down to see how you pull the move off? It could work... I think. But it probably will never happen. dom is anti everything


In my hands I hold your smile and in my heart it runs so wild You are the one you are unique I'm so in love you make me weak And the reason that I feel is like a shadow from a light so if you have the chance to be with me be my shadow in the night

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:"anti technology"
"anti everything"

Would say more, but I'm busy programming computers


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Necrus
Necrus

member
Location: Greece/Athens
Member Since: 17th Aug 2003
Total posts: 113
Posted:Sure it could be an RPG---> Poi's Gate I "The Shadow of the Chain"

Actually,it would be very very very very diffucult to programme such a game,or even design it....

A very good but a little.....


Metal Rulezzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!

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Necrus
Necrus

member
Location: Greece/Athens
Member Since: 17th Aug 2003
Total posts: 113
Posted:Sure it could be an RPG---> Poi's Gate I "The Shadow of the Chain"

Actually,it would be very very very very diffucult to programme such a game,or even design it....

A very good but a little.....


Metal Rulezzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!

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shadow steppin
shadow steppin

official hop irken
Location: Tucson USA
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 401
Posted:deja vu

jus playin dom

its been a long time since i gave you shit


In my hands I hold your smile and in my heart it runs so wild You are the one you are unique I'm so in love you make me weak And the reason that I feel is like a shadow from a light so if you have the chance to be with me be my shadow in the night

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Lost_kause
member
Location: England (N.E. lincs)
Member Since: 15th Aug 2003
Total posts: 14
Posted:good idea in theory but in theory pollitics work so it might work but if it does work maybe it should be like ff7 were u go round battlin ppl like break dancin or summit


just a thought




[_ [] 5 t K @ (_) s E

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soldari
soldari

busy-tofu!
Location: montreal: bagel capital
Member Since: 16th Jul 2003
Total posts: 133
Posted:quote:Originally posted by )spanner(:
Maybe it could be an RPG, where you go adventuring, training in poi and other toys, meeting other poi spinners who you can learn from and trade toys with. why does it need to be an RPG? If you're going to be a poi-ist, you're going to be doing all these things for real, not on your computer.

I can see the online multi-player version looking like poi in the park, but much, much lamer. Then all the newbies would be like Ooooh-oooh, what's TTN? How do you get colored flames? how did you get your poi to sparkle like that? what's the difference between a ww and a fountain? And then you'd wish it was a first person shooting game.


there is no better way to say I love you than with the gift of a spatula!

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bubblenutter
member

Member Since: 6th May 2003
Total posts: 29
Posted:I've been thinking about something like this for a while, as a learning aid for all levels. You have a graphical area which shows the model spinning the loaded move. The user can move around the model and zoom in on different areas, speed up and slow down, as they are spinning. Each move (as long or as short as you like) is saved in a file and these files are loaded up. Once a decent model for the system has been developed a development suite for creating new move templates could be build so that if someone creates a new move they can create the template and then submit it for everyone else to try and learn.
Also when the program is compiling the move it could rate how mathematically and humanly possible it is.
With regards to this project I was wondering if there are any mathematicians that know what sort of things need to be considered for the calculations?
Cheers
Rob


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caniffis
member
Location: the world at large (mainly UK)
Member Since: 27th Jun 2002
Total posts: 60
Posted:some of you may know that there are computer models of juggling that can do anything from two balls to hudge numbers which would be totally imposible to actually do. you can speed up slow down the time or rotate the characture to any angle to see how to do the trick.
as this site has video footage of people spinning telling you how to do tricks why not a program that you can have total control of to see how a trick is done as it is hard to get it from a video that you only see in one direction.
those people who see it as a bane to bring poi to computers well thats your view but i know lots of people who have to learn tricks on there own and a program like this could be really good. especially if you had it linked to some poi that could record your moves to the creen so you coud see what you do when spinning in this way you can put it against the recorded correct way and see what you are doing wrong. you could also use it to work out routins for shows or to show of to friends on the net by showing them what you can do and teaching someone a new trick who lives on the other side of the world!

don't think small think BIG


What you don't know won't hurt you? well i intend to get to know as much as possible so that i can make sure no one else has to so they carn't get hurt.

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Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:quote:Originally posted by soldari:
...why does it need to be an RPG?...

...Then all the newbies would be like Ooooh-oooh, what's TTN? How do you get colored flames? how did you get your poi to sparkle like that? what's the difference between a ww and a fountain? And then you'd wish it was a first person shooting game. ...It doesn't need to be an RPG, it's just an idea

Hey, you must have been a newbie once


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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soldari
soldari

busy-tofu!
Location: montreal: bagel capital
Member Since: 16th Jul 2003
Total posts: 133
Posted:of course I was a newbie once... actually I just registered about two months ago (okay, a month and a half), but I did searches instead of asking . Nothing wrong with a first person shooter game either...

You could attack with poi, staff, doubles, and then there'd be those insane crazy kickass weapons like meteors or fire-breathing. You'd have to burn evil highly flamable zombies and get to the fuel reserves to soak-up. OR it could be an RPG with quests for the new move. And at some point you'd have to gather-up enough money to get a plane-ticket to the UK, NZ, and Australia to get to the next level.

just thought I'd edit. Technically I am still a newbie. I was talking about those other newbies. to all you newbies! Speaking of wich, maybe I should go to the introduction board and say hi to everyone; I figure it's about time!

[ 06. September 2003, 03:01: Message edited by: soldari ]


there is no better way to say I love you than with the gift of a spatula!

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Noir_deluxe
member
Location: Canada
Member Since: 30th Jul 2003
Total posts: 58
Posted:He I think canaffises Idea was really really really good! I was thinking in that general idea for a while, but now hes gone and honed it down to a point. And poi with motion trackers in them are a great idea too!Wow, we have some geniuses here. I'd personally love to learn tricks that way, but i dont know how much something like this would cost. Its an idea tho, would anybody back it if it ever came to production?

Noir_DDELUX

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siliconslave
member
Location: near guildford uk
Member Since: 18th Aug 2003
Total posts: 36
Posted:i've been playing jedi knight 3: jedi acadimy and that has a huge move database thing for the lightsabers, and introduces double light sabers and the staff thing darth maul used in that crappy first film.
You should be able to do some form of total conversion to that to get a kinda staff battling thing.
It wouldn't be too hard for some skilled coders to use the engine to do a poi style thing - allbe it very simplistic - stuff like proper physics would have to be scrapped in favor of pre-done animations and key move joining points.

Annother example is beat-em-ups: that guy in Soul Calibur (Maxi afaik) and the other guy in teken who do Knunchucks - stuff like that is pretty advanced in some ways but realistic physics are only realy emulated on the weapons

twould be pretty darn hard to do properly in 3d - might have a go if i get realy board thou


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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:there should be a special attachment to the console that thwacks you in the nether regions when you mistime a move. it would be far more realistic then.

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Mint Sauce
veteran
Location: Lancs England
Member Since: 7th Sep 2003
Total posts: 1453
Posted:No No No a tutorial sounds good but whats wrong with video . And isnt the whole point of poi to get out and do it . for me its the feeling of the spinning that counts (and maybe watching someone spin). Whenever I watch a vid clip on my comp I makes me go pick up my poi if I was playing a game I would never get anywhere every time I started I would be outside in five minuets spinning myself

before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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bubblenutter
member

Member Since: 6th May 2003
Total posts: 29
Posted:Been looking into the mathematics of poi spinning and it seems f*****g hectic. It's not just extended pendular movements becuase the the central point is constantly moving at well. You have your hand doing little circles and moving across your body to keep the end weight moving out... I haven't even started looking at how the energy gets stransferred and my brain is coming out of my ears . If there are any mathemeticians out there I would really appreciate a bit of help.
Cheers
Rob


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caniffis
member
Location: the world at large (mainly UK)
Member Since: 27th Jun 2002
Total posts: 60
Posted:For those of you who are wondering about the mathmatics here is an idea how to do it.....

rather than looking at the whole mathmatics of the way we spin poi look at it as time movement for each swing. set the point of rotation as set to start with and work on the principle of one swing is say.. one time slot. you can then look at the direction of swing and brake this down into 6 movements to start with. 1 being right 2 being left 3 being in front 4 being behind 5 parell to the ground above the head and 6 being the same but below the head. using these simple principles you can create a model of both the hands and the poi in simple sections. well simple compared to anything else. then you can expand this to involve the possible multipul possibilities of the wrist and arms and if necassary and in another vector of rotation form the shoulder on a similar basses. the model of the poi can be done without working out how much force is needed because then you have all kinds of problems the best way is to model them as solid so that they never collapse. This means that you can slow down or speed up the program to watch the move with out worrying about the program having problems with the poi collapsing as the speed is reduced.

and now for the idea of the motion traking poi for the computer, what you could do is actually tack poi and incorperate a memory chip inside and sensors that can record speed and rotation at the handel and at the ball. you can then spin away all day long if you want and then at the end of the day plug them in to the computer and down load the infomation. you could stick a dinamo in like you get in watches to provide power to the poi so you don't have to worry about bateries. this can then mean that you can spin and have it all on screen. if you wanted you could stick a bluetooth chip in them so you could beem the data to either a pc/laptop or Mac to watch it live. if you know the aerotech equipment then you know the sort of computing power they use and the stuf they can get in there poi, so it would not be hard to do. maybe some one could think of doing it as a degree project in mechanices or computer engineering?

oh and yes i have far to much time on my hands to be thinking on this!


What you don't know won't hurt you? well i intend to get to know as much as possible so that i can make sure no one else has to so they carn't get hurt.

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Posted:You could just use a 000,255,000 green for your poi balls, and then do the whole matting thing, which eliminates the need for tech in the poi balls.

I don't think tech is always that robust and a few thwacks in the knee would probably kill something... I'm still concerned about hitting my aerotechs too hard...

As for the actual game, I think it would be best as a tutorial like canaffis suggested, a method of sharing moves from around the world and extending the comunity, rather than a game per say. Say for example your perfecting your btb 7bt weave, and you want to share that with X in NZ.

Imaging recording yourself doing the move, then sending a file a LOT smaller than a video to X so (s)he can view the move from any location, even from your perspective! You could even include descriptions and hints that could appear along side the video at scripted times.

In terms of the physics and 3d engine, you could probably adapt something currently on the market, say the HalfLife engine, this gives you a basic physics engine you can adapt / improve + the graphical interface again adaptable, all you'd need to spend a lot of time over would be the motion capture....

Just my 2peneth tho!

PsyB.


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