quote:I liked the way you put this but it is not fully sound. We consume things because our body needs specific elements to keep itself running properly.
Originally posted by falloutboy:
The way i see it, we basically need to consume energy to survive, and our greatest source of energy is the sun - but we as a species are unable to absorb and convert this energy directly into the form we need. Plants on the other hand can do exactly that - convert sunlight into glucose - how convenient! So we need to consume plants to survive - but hey look, here's a whole bunch of other animals with the same idea - why don't we let them forrege around eating the plants, then we'll eat them - it'll save us time and effort! So we can do that.. and we have been.. and therefore that's how we've evolved (K9 teeth etc.) It's not necessarily that we were 'designed' to eat meat.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
quote:not true, it is possible to get all required from a balenced vegan diet. For sake of convience (because most people don't tend to eat balenced diets) many vegan products such as soy margerine and soy milk are fortified with artificially derived vitamin D, B12 etc. But then veganism is a serious undertaking and to stay healthy you do have to take it seriously, at least when you start to ensure that you are eating well. I don't even think about it on a daily basis, but if i analyse what i ate yesterday I did get everything i needed vitamin/mineral/protein wise. About a year ago I was feeling very lathargic all the time and went to a doctor to see if i had glandular fever. That test came back negetive so i requested to see a nutrianalist to see if my diet was responsible. The doctor (who incidently is vegetarian too) told me he didn't think so, but referred me anyway. I half expected to nutrianalist to tell me i was damaging my health and to give up veganism when i told her what i ate. But instead she was very encouraging and said my diet was far far better than the average person my age and the tiredness was not related. The tiredness thing sorted itself out a few months later (and in hindsight it probably had something to do with staying out really late every night ).
The reason Vegetarians are supposed to take supplements everyday is because they are not consuming all of the necessary vitamins in their diet that their body requires
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
there is no better way to say I love you than with the gift of a spatula!
quote:First off I love the anecdotes. Those were good.
Originally posted by soldari:
Oh, and does anyone know why excessively carnivore people feel so threatened by vegetarians?
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
A witty saying proves nothing.- Voltaire (1694-1778)
A witty saying proves nothing.- Voltaire (1694-1778)
quote:An analogy-
Originally posted by Boneyard:
Finally, the ethics. This is a tough one because science has a hard time proving one set of ethics is more "valid" than another. My opinion (which is all I can offer here) is that life feeds on life. I eat plants and animals, and eventually I will die and be placed back into the cycle. Unless they pump me full of chemicals and put me in a concrete slab, which is not something I want.
I basically follow the Law of the Jungle, from The Jungle Book (the movie with Jason Lee (I know, it's kinda hokey)). It is simple: you kill only to eat, or to keep from being eaten. If I kill a cow to eat it and make shoes from it's skin, that is not cruel, that is nature. If I kill a mink and make a coat from it without eating the meat (or at least feeding it to my dogs), then I am becoming cruel. Sticking a firecracker up a frogs butt is just wrong, and shows a severe lack of compassion (which I find worrisome in other people).
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
quote:How many vegans serious vegans have you actually met? I don't try to convert people, I currently know no other vegans and very few vegetarians. My best friends eat meat and one works in burger king. I don't agree, but I don't lecture. There's a lot of people in the world to convert, so i'd rather work on strangers than the small percentage that I have to live with. I've also had a very large amount of meat eaters try to convert me back, generally when i'm out enjoying myself and when i categorically say that i'm willing to sit down with them during the daytime and have an intellectual debate with them, but they take no notice and continue to go on at me. I'm not going to stereotype meat eaters based on a few that i've met, and i'd really like to know how you surveyed vegans to conclude that they are all 'preachy'.
PS I think Vegans do get preachy and try to convert you. Just like gun controllers and AA members. Just let me eat my steak, sip my whisky, and shoot stuff in piece!
quote:I lived in remotish countryside for 9 years and on the edge of a town with lots of farms around for 6 years. I've attended in person tens of hunts and run on foot all day with the lead hunters. I've also seen first hand how the animals are killed. Perhaps I should tell you that your experience of hunting, ie shooting, is not the same as the UK style of fox hunting. Fox hunting here is done on horseback with (usually badely trained) dogs. Generally at a hunt there are a couple of hunters (red coats) then 20 to 30 or so other riders who pay a subscription of several thousand a year to ride with the pack. Then following them are lots of wannabe farmers with landrovers and wax jackets who follow the hunt on foot/car. The dogs are trained to make a chase last as long as possible so the followers get a good ride. Foxes are sometimes bred to be hunted so a kill can be ensured when the hunt has celebrety guests (ie royal members). I've never seen a fox killed by the mythical 'quick nip on the back of the neck', usually they are disembowled whilst still alive. The whole thing is very much a social event.
I am also curious as to the mindset of people who picket hunting season each year, because it is "cruel".
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
No one knows me like I do.
--*SaM*--
quote:Don't feel guilty, the main thing is to think seriously about these things (which you have done) and when you see something as wrong to either stop doing it or do it less.
Originally posted by poipixie:
Even though ive been vegetarian for a while now im still torn on some issues and find it really hard to draw the line. I can understand the point that plants are also living beings and thats something which i often think about. the main thing is that i don't want to be hypocritcal but it's really hard not to be. i feel strongly about not eating meat so i wouldnt want to go back, however, i feel that as long as i am vegetarian and still wear wool and silk etc. and eat the occaisional slice of cheese i am being a hypocrite! i dont want to use this as an excuse to go back to my meat eating days because its not something im comfortable with but i still find it hard to draw the line!!
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
quote:If this were the situation, then it would suck to be human. I suppose I would try to convince the aliens not to eat me. There have actually been more than one Sci-fi story written on this topic. Ultimately, it would prove once and for all to humans that we ain't so effing special.
Originally posted by onewheeldave:
An analogy-
A race of beings with a consciousness as far beyond ours as ours is beyond animals, descends upon the Earth and starts to farm humans.
They consider themselves ethical because they slaughter us humanely and because it is all part of the food chain and therefore of nature.
Although they acknowledge that humans do possess a rudimentary form of consciousness and can, to some extent, feel distress, it is of little consequence to them.
imagine your families next in the line for slaughter- what would you want to say to the slaughterers.
Unfortunatly, your words to them will make no more sense than the screams and squeals of pigs going to slaughter, do to us.
A witty saying proves nothing.- Voltaire (1694-1778)
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
quote:And in this area, it is not done primarily in the slaughter houses but on the raising farms. That is why I encourage people to do more research hands on. And it is why there are various forms of meat available now...from those grown and slaughtered in houses, fed chemicals, and treated like crap...to those that are treated well through what lives they have and killed accordingly.
Originally posted by Josh:
Pele, having grown up on a farm with a vege garden and goats, chickens, ducks, geese, pigeons, rabbits, etc all used to feed us in various ways (eggs, feathers for pillows, hides were a bit difficult so we gave up on them, but you know) I´ve seen many a slaughter. and I can tell you that its virtually a polar opposite to how the animals are treated in the abbatoire(sp?) (slaughter factory).
quote:And I believe that in my post I left no support of this and referred to it as Poaching...hmmm...in fact I did, and I displayed my very strong contempt for poaching.
And for every deer your dad brings down with his one shot, there are many a deer that gets poorly shot by some macho kid and his dad just trying to prove their manliness.
Josh
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
quote:out of interest have you actually ever tried a serious, well planned vegetarian diet?
Nope, because I know that for my body to function properly for me, I need to eat meat
quote:Yes..and I have never felt worse in my life, well from eating, not illness. And I have a friend who swears by Atkins-low carb-HIGH protien and it doesn't work for me either. Both made me feel really laggy. No meat and I was stricken with horrible headaches and stomach aches. No carbs and I had very low energy and bad stomach aches(besides the fact that fruit happens to be my absolute favorite thing in the world, and *most* of it is a big ol no-no until you reach phase 3 ).
Originally posted by flid:
out of interest have you actually ever tried a serious, well planned vegetarian diet?
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
A witty saying proves nothing.- Voltaire (1694-1778)
quote:Probably the prosyeltizing ones
Originally posted by bec:
Who are these vegetarians that you keep meeting?
quote:I would assume healthy veges have better things to do all day than corner me in the student hall and give me their spiel. The sickly ones can't go hiking or camping, so they sit on the corner and preach.
Originally posted by bec:
come visit here and I'll introduce you to loads of wonderful, healthy, energetic vegetarians ...
A witty saying proves nothing.- Voltaire (1694-1778)
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