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ValuraSILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia


Posted:
RAAAHHHHH
I really need your guys help with this...
For the past month or so when we have been attending burleigh beats, (which used to be an amazing, happy, fire night) we have had run ins with 4, 14 year old fire breathers.
At first I was shocked because Arsn and I noticed that they were breathing with Kero, and when we had a friendly word with them they were all like
" So what? we dont care, we know what we are doing..." which they obviously didnt seeing as how the flame was travelling so close to their faces and they were breathing in with a mouthful of kero...
We let it go and told them to check out this site for some advise on how to breathe and which fuel was safer to use. To which they kinda smirked.
Then last weekend I had enough when I saw them teaching a YOUNG kid how to breathe with kero...this kid must have been around 12-13 or so. I saw red. I marched up to them and told them what idiots they were for doing that and explained about chem cough and tryed to tell them what they are doing to their bodies to which they started threntening me and then BLEW FIRE INTO MY FACE.... CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT??!!?? I wasnt hurt.
I was so angry, but not as mad as arsn. He cut sick mate and scared the beejesus outta the smart ass. So we went away from the main circle to twirl away from the dickheads, and they FOLLOWED us and tryed to intimidate us and breathed STUPID KID KERO FIRE all around the place.
Because of this we dont really want to go to burleigh any more because I understand that violence isnt the answer, but I wanna smack the guy who breathed into my face. So I am making the effort to stay away from there....
WHAT can we do? I love twirling and drumming at burleigh when there arnt those dickheads there...

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"


Mistress AuroraHot Schtuff
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX


Posted:
Don't have much advice for ya, but yeah that is so dangerous and I would want to kick that kid's arse for blowing fire into my face. Actually I would of already been beating up on him right after he did that, but that's just me.

I send you some to pass it on to that kid

It is really bad when they try and teach a younger kid how to breath fire when they themselves don't know how to do so safely.

I'd keep going, but just let them be and if they do something even worse tell somebody who may be in charge of the event or somebody who can do something about it.

Hope everything works out for yall


RISK: Do not follow the common path; Go where there is no path and leave a trail.


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
I could give my morbid advice, but I doubt too many people would be happy with it. hehe

swap thier kero with blue dyed water hehe then point and laugh at them because they cant even breath fire anymore. hahaha

Print off Pele's stroy and give it to them...

Lastly, watch the obituarys and hope

Other than that, I can give you no advice... well that the general populous would want to read.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


ValuraSILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia


Posted:
ahahahaha Blue dyed water. ahahaha
I might just do that. I would laugh my ass off.
*ahahahahaha thump*

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"


DentrassiGOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia


Posted:
besides, their 14 yr old and know everything. why would they need stupid adults around them to tell them what to do?

ultimately they're not going to take any advice, theres not much you can do.
just go along and ignore them. if he sees that he's scared you off his ego will get even bigger and he'll be even more cocky and reckless than before.
hes some random contradictory thoughts which have crossed my mind while typing...

idea 1.
what do the other twirlers think? surely if they saw him breath fire at you they would collectively tell the kids to F&%$ off.
if noone in the group wants them there and ignores them theyll eventually get the idea. if the group doesnt care, i like rays advice, print out copies of pele's story. should persuade them.

idea 2.
with the 12 yr old? theyll 'teach' the kid whether you are or arent there. its hard to take responsiblility for some one elses child.

idea 3. prob go along, watch them, but dont interfere untill they hurt themselves, which will happen eventually. they should learn from their mistakes.

idea 4. if he breaths fire at you? punch him in the face and call the cops. from a legal point of view its adequate self defense - theres witnesses all around you - and his parent will find out, which is ultimately the best solution. if someone breathed at me its what id do. or maybe kick him in the nads if theres a plume in front of you. if hes chasing you, theres no point running around for that long. that option is a bit dodgy and a last resort only... id do it, but its what youre comfortable with. there no way any 14 yr old is going to chase me around a park. im feeling somewhat reckless today, so ill probably shudder when i see this post tomoro.

idea 5.
thinking about it, if you can find out where he live and contact his parents, or get his name and complain to the cops (depending on the state of the police service in your region)

idea 6.
get a feather and tickle him to death.

hope random contradictory ideas help.

good luck, but take care.

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.


Kinudin (Soul Fyre)veteran
1,325 posts
Location: San Diego, California, USA


Posted:
Valura -

They're young. Everyone has something to learn, maybe they're at the drum circle because they have a bad life at home, so they come to the circle to let it out. I know how that feels sometimes and would love to be able to drive to a drum circle just to let some steam out (I find circles calming).

But breathing fire in your face? That's completely un-called for. Excellent on you for walking away from the circle to keep yourself from ripping that little jack asses head off (or cleverly placing an "accidental" breakage of your poi in the dirrection of his pants).

My virduct? They're young and stupid. They'll either take your advice, or learn the hard way (hence Pele's article). Keep spinning at the circle.


Kinudin

ValuraSILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia


Posted:
thanks guys.
Dentrassi they are some really good points... With the ask the other twirlers point- a lot of the twirlers at the group are just learning, and burleigh is very transient, so many people come on one night.... this one time the police closed the park to people trying to come along because there were 400 people there...
One twirler who did see it just looked shocked and then went and started to twirl with them about 5 mins later... I think a copy of Peles story is the go...
I also think that if he does anything like that again I WILL cop him in the cakehole. Im against anything like that, but bloody hell there has to be a line...
Kinudin I would have the same opinion as yourself IF they were drumming or even being productive at the circle... Instead they are causing havoc. and singeing my eyelashes (c@ntus how do you spell that s word?)...
oh sigh

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"


polytheneveteran
1,359 posts
Location: London/ Surrey


Posted:
Very few things worse than stupid people with 'look what I can do, you're just jealous' syndrome. Despite your best intentions, it looks like anything you say to these idiots is going to fall on deaf ears.

Maybe, if you see them teaching a young kid again, you could have a quiet word with the 'pupil', and point out the stupid mistakes their 'teachers' are making. Tell them if they want to learn, fine, but not from these guys and not the way they do it. Destroy the kid's confidence in these guys and they'll be put off, nobody wants to learn something dangerous from people that don't know what they're doing.

The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.


RoziSILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia


Posted:
all I can do is wish you luck hun. Kids are adults without the thin veneer of civilisation (or is that adults are children with the thin veneer of civilisation )

Just remember that you cannot be responsible for the spiritual growth of any person. You can show them the way, but you cannot walk the journey for them.

As to the threat to your person, send them my way, I have a few thoughts on the subject... mwahhahaha

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...


Bender_the_OffenderGOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
kids can be very tought when outside earshot of their parents and can often be as meek as mice when within earshot.
my suggestion is to used 'social engineering' and sleuth their parent's contact details from them, so that they can be told off by someone who controls their allowance.
Perhaps one day they will realise what they have done, perhaps not, but right action is never always easy.

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always


Flower fairyBRONZE Member
member
98 posts
Location: London, United Kingdom


Posted:
I think that it would definately be a good idea to print out all of Pele's good advice as well as her terrible story for them. Then at least if it does scare them a bit but they wanna carry on they can try and be a bit safer about it. The main problem being is that if these kids are now feeling defensive against you ( lets face it all 14 year olds are unless you approach them in exactly the right way and even then you cant garentee they will listen) they might just burn up the pieces of paper in defiance.... maybe if you had a friend they hadnt encountered before they could give them the info whilst having a chat to them... they might at least then take it home and read it which is the first obsacle
Just a thought.... if all fails darling at least you have tried.. thats all you can do at the end of the day. You know your a good person for doing that
Good luck

some people take a walk in the rain and others just get wet

Smiling is infectious. Please pass this on.


FlamingMonkeymember
50 posts
Location: Colchester


Posted:
I'm new here. What's Pele's story???

Monkey see, Monkey do...


Flower fairyBRONZE Member
member
98 posts
Location: London, United Kingdom


Posted:
Its called a season in hell and you can see it on the home page of hop. If not do a search

some people take a walk in the rain and others just get wet

Smiling is infectious. Please pass this on.


CantusSILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,966 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom


Posted:
And what makes you think I would be reading this thread Valura?

Anyhoo, you spelt singeing correctly. So it's all ok.

Meh


AdeSILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia


Posted:
Where's Chalres when you need him - he's always got a good take on dealing with kids...

charles, you out there reading this, hello charles?

like the idea of contacting the parents - or maybe even the school - if you can work out which one they go to....

maybe hold a workshop on fire breathing? invite them over, then show by example how it should be done, without indicating they are playing dangerously....

you could print pele's story - but I betchya it would end up on the ground before the first paragraph was read

PukSILVER Member
Sweet talented nutter
2,615 posts
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia


Posted:
God or what about that time with those drunk's that wouldn't leave us alone ?.

that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk


poipixiemember
53 posts
Location: Brisvegas, Aus


Posted:
ahhh that must have been so frustrating!! ive been down to burleigh a couple of times and its been amazing, with an awesome friendly and inviting atmosphere, it would be such a shame if it got ruined by a few misguided kids. it doesnt seem like theres much you can do if they're not willing to listen, just hope that they get sick of it all soon before they can teach anyone else or before someone gets hurt.

there's always going to be the people who think they are invincible, and i think firetwirlers attract them (i.e the drunks who try to convince you that they know what they're doing when theyve never seen fire poi before...) but good luck and i hope it all works out

--*SaM*--


i8beefy2GOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA


Posted:
I found a good solution to people who think it looks easy and decide they can do it. I hand them my beaming poi. On the one hand, if they DO know what they are doing, I can put aside some of my fear of them lighting themselves on fire or something. If they don't, well, the good sized dents that beaming poi tend to leave in people tend to work things out.

Now as for staff, that's a different story. I've had a number of people come up and say they knew what they were doing (from a martial arts or baton twirling background), and I have even had 9 year olds (With their ex-baton twirling mother's spoken APROVAL) ask to use my staff. Of course I wouldn't let him within ten feet of me, but it was still disturbing to find his mother Oking his "Mom said I could" statement...

In the end it seems to come down to a respect issue. If the person obviously has respect for what could happen and can demonstrate first some skill, its always good to see new spinners born using your toys (And a few new HOP'ers too, hehe), but the obviously giddy (or trashed) people I always get uptight about.

And if anyone ever blew fire in my face, I don't know if I could handle it with my usual calm demeanor... Someone's head might get dunked in a nearby river or other water source to ensure extinguish-ation (if that horribly put together word exists, hehe)

PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
Hey Valura...

In my eyes this is the time to fight fire with fire, so to speak. They want to be arses and blow fire in your face then go to the police. Printing out my story will no nothing but provide them with something else to light on fire.

Here's what I would do....

I don't know about there but most cities have two things for children... A juvenile officer and a curfew. Call them in on it. Explain that normally this is a very peaceful place for responsible adults but that these children are not only recklessly endangering themselves but also the lives of others. You feel it is in their best interest to stop them but when you tried they became very physically threatening to you. You believe that this type of play is a danger to anyone, especially kids, and request that an officer come out to check the situation over. Also mention that this behaviour is something that you feel the parents should be warned about, and have something for THEM to read. Produce the article, if you feel it is that appropriate to the situation, and hand several copies to the officer (including an extra for him/her). You can log this complaint because this gathering occurs on public property, correct? It is their responsibility to maintain the peace there, especially when involving children. I know around here those kids would be put on a "watch" from the police, and prolly from parents. If not, it at least lets them know you mean business, that you will not take their sh!t or react on their level, and then you can go back to your peaceful evening of fire play.

Any way you choose to go with this, best of luck to you, and keep us posted!
Many

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


telicI don't want a title.
940 posts

Posted:
Pele, I think that's all excellent advice, except I have one concern. If Val gets the police involved, there's the risk that the police will decide that all fire performance there is too dangerous and may try to crack down on everything.

It's like Hawaii and the mongoose problem, ne? Mongooses were introduced into Hawaii to exterminate the rats, so now instead Hawaii has a mongoose problem. Call up the cops to be rid of the kids, and you may end up with a cop problem instead.

E pluribus unum, baby.


Rick aka LokiBRONZE Member
member
134 posts
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Posted:
My thoughts on this are fairly simple.

On their behaviour:

Breathing fire in your face is assault. It could be argued that it's assault with a deadly weapon.

I would do this: bring a camera to the next event, get a good picture of the kid who blew at you, report him to the police, press assault charges, give them the picture.

His parents, and hopefully therefore he, will get the message more clearly that doing something as serious as breathing fire in your direction is a thousand miles from okay if it's the police that have to explain it to them. A kid can make up a lot of stories, and the parents might believe them. But his word over that of the police? Harder to ignore.


On their "breathing":

1. One reason we're trying to establish fire performance regulations here in Halifax is to control that kind of situation. If someone's breathing in public, where others could see them, learn from them, or be injured by them, they have to do it according to a few basic guidelines or be shut down or sent to private property. Maybe look into establishing what's safe and unsafe as a community and getting the city to recognize that, at least off-paper, as a standard.

2. They can breathe however they want, once they're of legal age. While they're still minors, their parents do need to know what they're doing, and why it's so dangerous. Once the police are involved (and, again, I think they should be), get them to deliver a letter from you to the parents explaining all the reasons why what the kids are doing, especially how they're doing it, is dangerous.

3. As far as them teaching other kids, I'd pull the "students" aside quietly and explain how those kids are doing it wrong and that the "teachers" will probably kill themselves horribly down the road.

4. These kids obviously don't respect the fire, or have a honouring relationship with it. A couple of things will likely therefore happen: a) Their fascination and thrill will wear off in a couple of months at most, they'll pick some other hobby. Perhaps Russian Roulette. or b) They will continue to play with fire without respect and the proper amount of sobriety, and it will burn them. After that, they'll either learn to respect it, or they'll run away.

My guess is that option a) will be the way they go. So long as they don't hurt anyone in the meantime, it should work out.

peas and love,

-Rick aka Loki
oh, man, a signature?... uuh... this is like coming across wet cement... uuh, shoot, I had something clever I was saving... I hope I don't run out of sp


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
shake your tic-tacs at them?

PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
If you decide to go the police, especially with assault charges, you need to do so soon, as there are statute of limitations on such things.

Police can usually be easily dealt with, and a show of all precautions taken on the part of Valura and other adults is usually fine. The fact that these are kids is the point that needs to be taken into concideration, and really focussed on, and they are completely abusing their right to use that public property by attacking Valura.

And quite actually if Valura wanted she could even not mention that she does fire at all. Play the part of a concerned passer-by. Either as safe as possible or irresponsibly, these kids are too young to be fire breathing at all.

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


fluffy napalm fairyCarpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land


Posted:
Valura hunny - I promise to kick the sh!t out of them with my vicious fairy feet when i come to stay -


...........and give you lots and lots of hugs Sorry you have had to encounter some of life's scum - and so sorry they are so intent on putting themselves and others in so much danger. I really don't know what to suggest (except a not-so-fluffy kikin' from the fairy )

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank


King Of Bongoaddict
522 posts
Location: Berlin


Posted:
aint been around recently, but anyone got any thoughts on how young people should be allowed to spin fire?
if they are doing it safely then i dont see a problem (if you say these kids were breathing in your direction and following you about I presume they know how to breath fire well enough)
I'm not sure age is an issue- at the ejc there was an amazing little kid about 8 years old spinning fire (and juggling five clubs and juggling two diabolos, damn kids- or maybe im just jealous)...
the problem comes when they get dangerous and pose a threat/risk to themselves and others.

my advice- get everyone else to reject/ignore the kids and dont allow them to be part of your fire group...
that way they wont be part of the "fire crowd" and wont be cool, and will f##k off somewhere else...

Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.


ValuraSILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia


Posted:
Tis hard to push them away because its not really a fire group so to speak but a massive public gathering where heaps of fireys put on a show and play and the public come and watch... so its really hard to enforce any rules...
I dunno I think that what pele said about getting the cops down there is proberly a good idea...The cops are pretty cool about it...They even have a spin some times if they arnt wearing the blue uniform....So I think if I explain the situation they may come down on the idiotic behaviour..Worth a try...thanks guys

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"


CharlesBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand


Posted:
Oops, sorry Ade/Valura...I'd thought this thread was about a group of happy people from Burleigh calling themselves idiots...

Yeah...tough situation. The problem with unsupervised kids, particularly 12 plus, is that they don't react to orders, or warnings from a third party. They tend to lump "that's dangerous" with the same comment from mum when they walk on a wall, or ride their skatboard on the footpath, which isn't that big a deal to most kids anyway. This reaction appears to be pretty universal, with only a very small number of exceptions.

But, that doesn't mean you have to order them or warn them directly, especially at the start of the dialogue.

I've done the following a number of times with groups of both younger teens and even irresponsibly acting adults...

Talk to them, introduce yourself, ask them how long they have been doing it (great info for later), ask them what fuel they use, and when they say xxxx, say "Good on ya! I was a bit worried as some people try it with xxy and end up blind with scarred faces. Good to see your using something a little bit safer"

With statements like this, you allow them to come a “this is really dangerous” conclusion on their own. The important thing is not to talk about them and the danger directly, just atlk about what has happened to others, in a conversational way. If they really are surly, then getting them to drag info out of you works even better.

You can does this with statements like “I’m not so keen on firebreathing anymore…” “why?” “oh just a few bad things happened a while back” “like what” “you really want to know?” “yeah” “well, my friend Pele…..”

The key thing is to give them facts and information for them to make their own choices about, instead of trying to make their choices for them. Sure, you are pretending a little bit, but as long as you are telling them facts, and not making stuff up, I don’t feel there’s anything unethical about stacking the odds in your favour to help stop people hurting themselves or others.


But, it’s all very well to talk about it, when I’m not the one who’se had fire blown in his face

In that situation, I would probably call the cops straight away and get them done for assault. The most likely outcome of that is that the cops will confiscate their fuel and possible toys, and prevent them form doing it to anyone else for a day or two…

Anyway that's my 50 cents...

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?


CharlesBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand


Posted:
King of Bongo
quote:
aint been around recently, but anyone got any thoughts on how young people should be allowed to spin fire?
if they are doing it safely then i dont see a problem
Umm...I hate to sound like an old stick in the mud, but "safely" isn't really the right word for any of us to use.

Safer, better, less risky, are more appropriate.

It's the same with driving...as long as kids are 'driving safely' why shouldn't they get their full license when they are 12?

The other problem with a lot kids, is that they act very differently around their freinds than they do around adults. so while they might appear to be playing 'safer' when you watch them, the chance they will go off on their own and do it somewhere without a safety is pretty much a certainty.

If they don't, its probably because of lack of opportunity than anything else.

Of course, I am talking generally, i'm sure there are a few out there who don't fit the bill, but does that make it right to give all the others who do, the same chances?

Same arguemnt as outlawing knives made to kill other people, like butterfly knives. sure, there are a few collectors out there who might put them in a display case and lock them away, but there are a LOT more nasty people who will use them to kill others.

In My Honest Opinion, of course...

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?


PukSILVER Member
Sweet talented nutter
2,615 posts
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia


Posted:
You would think 3 worlds would be a bit more reponseiable down there ?.

that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk


ValuraSILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia


Posted:
Its not three worlds who run the show PUK... it was started by a guy called Ken who started the drum circle and the fire just became part of it...My beautiful frineds at three worlds wont even go there any more because of all the yuckiness...
I pride myself on the way that I talk to the youngins too charles... im usually friendly and happy and stuff... they just seemed to get their noses outta joint because they think Im trying to control them I think....Which Im not Im just being selfish...I dont want MY weekly fix of fire shut down by the council because some dickhead 14 year old frys his face off

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"


PukSILVER Member
Sweet talented nutter
2,615 posts
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia


Posted:
Oh okay i thought they had something to do with it .

You know it might happen down there . After all they won't learn properly or even listen to arsn's advice on technique and stuff .

Like that time i sore that fifteen year old almost breath into the wind .

Or that diatomb that let the flame go wright back to his lip's .

that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk


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