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Page: 123
Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:RAAAHHHHH
I really need your guys help with this...
For the past month or so when we have been attending burleigh beats, (which used to be an amazing, happy, fire night) we have had run ins with 4, 14 year old fire breathers.
At first I was shocked because Arsn and I noticed that they were breathing with Kero, and when we had a friendly word with them they were all like
" So what? we dont care, we know what we are doing..." which they obviously didnt seeing as how the flame was travelling so close to their faces and they were breathing in with a mouthful of kero...
We let it go and told them to check out this site for some advise on how to breathe and which fuel was safer to use. To which they kinda smirked.
Then last weekend I had enough when I saw them teaching a YOUNG kid how to breathe with kero...this kid must have been around 12-13 or so. I saw red. I marched up to them and told them what idiots they were for doing that and explained about chem cough and tryed to tell them what they are doing to their bodies to which they started threntening me and then BLEW FIRE INTO MY FACE.... CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT??!!?? I wasnt hurt.
I was so angry, but not as mad as arsn. He cut sick mate and scared the beejesus outta the smart ass. So we went away from the main circle to twirl away from the dickheads, and they FOLLOWED us and tryed to intimidate us and breathed STUPID KID KERO FIRE all around the place.
Because of this we dont really want to go to burleigh any more because I understand that violence isnt the answer, but I wanna smack the guy who breathed into my face. So I am making the effort to stay away from there....
WHAT can we do? I love twirling and drumming at burleigh when there arnt those dickheads there...


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Achluophobia
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Magical Sock Dancer
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

Total posts: 255
Posted:quote: The problem with unsupervised kids, particularly 12 plus, is that they don't react to orders, or warnings from a third party. I resent that, but I must admit there are a lot of people my age stupid enough too do something like that.

As for those 14 year old fire breathers. Find out who their parents are and give them a copy of Pele's story, and if their parents are responsiable at all they'll find away to end it quite quickly.


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frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:quote:I resent that, but I must admit there are a lot of people my age stupid enough too do something like that.that's kinda the point

it's just advice and observations - but certain groups always take it as judgement or trying to control them - just part of the rebelling thing methinks

it doesn't neccesarily mean YOU are being stupid/unsafe/foolish - just that it can happen and to beware, but it's usually taken as a challenge of some sort

charles' method's great - curiosity can be a good thing too


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:First of all I have to say this...we are stupid...all of us.

We play with fire. We risk our health, and because accidents CAN happen we also take calculated risks with the people/places around us. I don't know about the rest of you but I think that is pretty damn stupid. This has the potential for more damage than a car accident and such...so let's not fool ourselve, m'kay? Accepting the fact that we are in the club of being safer-stupid is actually kind-of fun.

As for when kids should be allowed to play with fire. KOB, I am the parent of an 8 year old and there is no way I would ever let him. He does not understand the gravity of what we do. He only now is coming to understand the severity of fire (since we lost part of our home to one, and since my accident). Therefore, he is not old enough to understand what he is handling, even if he can do technical moves better than I can.

AND..there are health concerns with children doing fire. The smoke we surround ourselves in regularly is pretty scary. Their young lungs are still developing. In looking into this, it was suggested that kids should not even attempt this until their mid-teens, which is when many kids grow out of respiratory issues they may have had when they were younger.

Just my thoughts on that....


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:I really wouldnt teach or even be part of a teaching group who had anything to do with teaching fire to young kids less than 15.

Ive had a fair amount of experience with teaching kids (4 years as a gymnastics instructor, 4 years as a karate instructor, and a couple teaching twirling) and while I know that there are kids out there who are very responsible at young ages, I think they are the exception not the norm, especially less than 14.

I think its extremely fool hardy, both in human terms (the kids hurting themselves or others by misuse of fireyfun) and in legal terms. I think you could get your ass sued off for teaching a minor fire arts if they hurt themselves with it.

ESPECIALLY FIRE BREATHING, as everyone seems to think its bloody easy until they damage themselves with it.

I know that I certainly am not qualified to teach fire breathing, to adults or anyone. I dont even do it, as everyone I know who has done it professionally has ended up in hospital. That said, when I talk to people about why I dont do breathing (they always ask) Im surprised that I seem to know a lot more about safety and risks than they do.

Teaching such a potentially hazardous thing to anyone is an awesome responsibility, and it doesnt look like these kids have had a decent teacher.

Valura mate, I wouldnt even go to this night for a month or so - these kids are trouble, and there isnt much you can do about it. Dont get drawn down to their level.

What saddens me the most is that when these ppl hurt themselves, its gonna reflect badly on all of us, no matter how negligent they, or their teachers are

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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mura


member
Location: masterton,new zealand

Total posts: 1
Posted:
vulura its me nick ehehehhe i cofuzzled with this site yupyup ok buybuy


mura(nick)

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Puk
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz

Total posts: 2615
Posted:It's a time bomb waiting happen after what i sore last night .

1. A boy apx 14 years old breathing really badly .

2. People drinking and twirling at the same time .

3. People skateing and trying to twirl at the same time . THERE NOT JEDI WHITE !

Will not accept advice from anyone at all


that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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DarkDevil


DarkDevil

member
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland.

Total posts: 233
Posted:That sucks, i was a kid at some point, and still am in the sense that i can't legally drink, but i'm that responsible one. There was a point, not to long ago, where i wanted to learn how to breathe fire, so i looked online, i decided i would breathe nothing besides Alcohol or pure Kero, the aviation type.. no additives.. But i thought about it, but at the time i wasn't ready to do this. I read the story on here, and decided i really didn't want to learn this. And then realized Ivan would kick anyone's ass in the Halifax area who would even consider attempting this. So i'm not gonna even try, until A) I move away, far far away from ivan (sorry man) AND B) I can legally buy Ron Rico's or Everclear.. oh.. and have a death wish...

As for any kids you see breathing fire, can you contact parents? if this is an organized events then contact the organizers, i really don't think they should be allowing this, these kids are gonna kill themselfs. And lastly, if you run out of things to do. Make Small Mammal Poi Darkdevil Style (find a Squrrel with Rabies, and feed it Kero) and then run after them, mwhahaha.


Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a trick, this is a stunt. The difference between a stunt and a trick is that a trick is something that tricks or fools the audience, a stunt is something that only an idiot would do -Ivan, Ash Circle, 10/04/03

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:I have had enough.
Im am going to print out copys of your story with your permission Pele and hand them out at this twirl...
These kids are dumb and they need their heads read and I think that if we hand out this type of info to the parents and the spectators, then they wont encrouage the firebreathing when they know what a risk it is...
Firebreathing is crowd pleasing and thats why the kids do it... they see the reaction from the crowd and then they continue to do it, to feed their egos and get a rush...I dont believe that is what twirling is really about, I believe that it is about the meditation and the skill, of course there is a certian amount of showmanship which comes with interests like this, but at the end of the day I like to believe that twirling is something that everyone can enjoy SAFELY!!!


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Ade
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

Are we there yet?
Location: australia

Total posts: 1897
Posted:are the parents there? if not, you seriously should contact the school (it should be easy enough to find out), and speak to the principle. not need to come the heavy to him, but just mentioned you were concerned about the bahviour of some of their school students.



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DarkDevil


DarkDevil

member
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland.

Total posts: 233
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Valura:
I dont believe that is what twirling is really about, I believe that it is about the meditation and the skill, of course there is a certian amount of showmanship which comes with interests like thisGreatly put, although i haven't proformed offically, i've had people watch me whom i didn't know, and looking up to see them looking at me was a great feeling. I often spin with my eyes closed, lets me concentrate on the feel of the moves, and feels more like meditation than twirling 2 chains with hackysacks around.


Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a trick, this is a stunt. The difference between a stunt and a trick is that a trick is something that tricks or fools the audience, a stunt is something that only an idiot would do -Ivan, Ash Circle, 10/04/03

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:ade, Its on a sunday night so I dont reckon that the principal is going to be able to do much, unfortunaly...This is a huge public gathering at a park so no one realy enforces the saftey aspects of thing...That makes me mad

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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firedancingfairy


enthusiast
Location: Australia

Total posts: 201
Posted:Hey Valura... good luck with everything with those kids. I've been a regular at burleigh for ages now and know who you are talking about. I can find out there names and then we can take some action sista! I read in this thread that you have 'friends at threeworlds'... I'm also really good friends with those beautiful souls! let me know who you are, or who you're mates with... I might know you! and we can spin fire together at Burleigh one sweet spring evening beneath the sparkling silver starlight!

Peace.


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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Fire dancing fairy
I have a feeling that we are really good friends already
Im Kristy


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Puk
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz

Total posts: 2615
Posted:It's acctually really scary how young these children are . My little sister is nine and i will not let her play with fire . And i've sceen children no older than 7 twirl .



that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:the youngest that I have seen is 4 thats not good huh?

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Rixatrix
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rixatrix

paranoid of gov't conspiracies
Location: USA

Total posts: 217
Posted:i would have smacked those kids in their stupid heads! i can breathe fire also but i would never even imagine breathing fire into someone's face or even close enough to someone where it could get near them! i can't really help you though as i would have already beat them but i would tell others around (like the little kid they were trying to teach) that, that is not how you should do that at all. anyway hope all works out with you!~

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Puk
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz

Total posts: 2615
Posted:It's destressing when people behave like how they where .

When i got there a watched a guy get beaten up by some drunks .
Not good chi ! children spinning with backpacks on .

But all was not lost (eye candy was there to be seen.)


that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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pantsonfire


the man with the flaming pants
Location: Brisvegas, Aust

Total posts: 148
Posted:Heyi used to spin at burliegh all the time!!! i naver had anytrouble it used to be really controled, only spinning in the market out circle, and no stupid stuff, !! what happened? crazy kid blowing fire at people?? yeah fact of life there are idiots and they will try to ruin it for you!!! anyway dont let them ruin it for you !!

It's all good

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Puk
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz

Total posts: 2615
Posted:The only reason i go down there is to see Valura and Arsn . Last time i was asked {(please) manners will always get what you want)}.

It's always great to see you guy's and meet burnt_one.


that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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Ade
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

Are we there yet?
Location: australia

Total posts: 1897
Posted:ok, seems you can't tackle the situation from the advice above - what about a total rethink? Start another fire gathering, in another location, with an atmosphere of safety etc.... when people rock up, they are welcomed by someone, and kind of given an intro to the ground rules, you could have a couple of big burley lads (sorry about the very very very bad pun) to help...

dunno, just another thought I had...


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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:such a good point Ade... I do believe that we may just have to do that...
announcement *ahem*
Arsn and I will begin a fire gathering very shortly... Please keep your eyes out for further details.


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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brainstorma
BRONZE Member since Jan 2003

brainstorma

old hand
Location: under the fairie wheel

Total posts: 1184
Posted:its easy
i know your staff and poi mean a lot to you but as de bsaid in this situation self defenc if valid in the police's eyes
use the staff or poi on him this way you get a good swing in but can keep your distance

these are grounds for an avo it will also appear on his criminal record for the next 5 yrs thus making it hard to obtain work in al but the more meanial jobs (and even a lot of those ae doing crim checks now)


"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, and screaming "WOO-HOO What a ride!"

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Rick aka Loki
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Rick aka Loki

member
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 134
Posted:Valura,

Have you actively dealt with the fact yet that you were F***ing ASSAULTED by this kid? I see this as little different from swinging a knife at someone or shooting a gun in someone's general direction, even if it is to scare them. It shows a dangerous lack of respect for the tool in their hands and a total disregard for the safety and well-being of the other person.

If it were me, I wouldn't let it slide. I would press charges. For the kid's own sake, and for the sake of the people around him, he needs to learn respect and proper humble use of what is potentially a weapon in our hands.


-Rick aka Loki
oh, man, a signature?... uuh... this is like coming across wet cement... uuh, shoot, I had something clever I was saving... I hope I don't run out of sp

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Puk
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz

Total posts: 2615
Posted:I feel like snoting some people in the nose down there . I'd love a gathering with Arsn and Valura

that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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firedancingfairy


enthusiast
Location: Australia

Total posts: 201
Posted:I'm really concerned... especially after the burleigh drum and fire circle last night about whats going to happen to the whole festivities that occur there every sunday night. I stopped and really had a look around me, and it's really frightening to see how close people are coming to being in seriously FULL ON dangerous incidences. There are no guide lines... no rules, and I think some are going to have to be put down if people continue to disrespect the sacred element of fire. Children were running around everywhere and their parents didn't even care to stop them, and people weren't respecting others at all. People should have been intelligent enough to realise that having too many people spinning fire in the circle at once was a risk. People were generally not using their inititave and waiting until there was more room to play... it was mostly impossible to not hurt anyone with how many people were just hanging around in the circle, and just asking to get hit in the head, or getting set on fire. It really distresses me when little kids are roaming around, and naturally they are facinated by the flame.. I can understand that. But the performers can't see them, and I find it discouraging to spin if I'm risking indagering the life of anyone. Either I'm going to sit here and moan and groan about it, and sit on my arse and not do anything... and not go anymore cos it just FREAKS ME OUT! Or... I could get some of you guys ideas as to how to make it a happier safer time... so we don't get this sunday night priviledge taken off us! I was thinking of brainstorming some rules and handing out pamphlets around the circle. What do you think?

Thanks my sweet fire brothers and sistas!!!


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BurningByron


member
Location: Australia

Total posts: 340
Posted:Valura, contacting the principal idea would actually work very well! Once you contact the head (i.e. the principal) of their school, he is then obliged to contact the parents of the child especially since the issue involves the child assaulting a member of the public. The principal is not obliged to punish the child but Im sure he would be very keen to help you contact his parents if he is endangering his life and the lives of others since by law he has a duty of care to maintain. All you need to do is find out his name and the name of his school and you got him!!
His parents should cooperate nicely with you considering you have grounds to sue them!


HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.

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Forau


member
Location: EIndhoven, Holland

Total posts: 81
Posted:Hell, you should sew him to the ground FFS!

I can't believe someone would actually blow fire at you, it's a disgrace to all fire performers!
Furious as I am I can not tell what I really think of those children(bann) but I think a new group with rules would be a great idea if stuff like this is about to explode.


And there should be an age limit to fire blowing...
Idiots.....


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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Fire dancing fairy... I have already thought about but I noticed that on sunday when I was handing out all the cards for three worlds that sometimes the people just chuck stuff on the ground and dont really care... making more mess on poor mother earth.But maybe I could stay back late and pick up all the rubbish with Ken after the night has finished..Im going to print out Peles story and hand that around to show the dangers of firebreathing..(I am SURE that the kids will sneer at me and screw it up...) thats where I was at

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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KristieEB


member
Location: Oakland, CA

Total posts: 108
Posted:From what you guys are saying ...

(i know i am a newbie but i am a vocal newbie)

this place doesn't seem like it will change until something bad happens. the blatant lack of respect that more than one of you is describing is not something that will be solved with a pamphlet requesting rules. this place seems SO negative from what several of you are saying that if i lived near there i wouldn't consider going at all.

if there is a large enough group of unsafe folks there spinning it WILL perpetuate itself until someone gets hurt. respect for the fire is based essentially in fear, and if there is no fear ... they will have to see it to recognise it. unfortunately, safe spinners "preaching" to them (which is how they will see it) will not instill the proper respect.

i think several of you are feeling responsible for the innocents that are being taught incorrectly or are in harms way and don't realize it. the only thing i can think to do is to have your own gathering and call it a "safe" play zone ... somewhere you are definitely in charge of controlling behavior.

handing out flyers at the burleigh event is a GREAT idea - telling people exactly HOW that event is unsafe and where to come to play safe as an alternative ... even if you have to pick up the trash afterwards (*sigh*). this way everyone that reads the info can either change their behavior or choose a different venue.

ultimately you must realize that everyone is responsible for their own skin and you have done more than your part for everyone involved. set the proper example and if only a few people come to realize their error, you have done a good thing. i mean, really, who wouldn't want to spin with wonderful sharing people who have respect for each other and the fire ... instead of a bunch of sneering fu**nuts??

(and sorry if i totally overstepped my bounds here ... )


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KristieEB


member
Location: Oakland, CA

Total posts: 108
Posted:oh - is it possible that you create a second circle at the event and instill rules within that area? the idea might perpetuate itself with a different mindset. for this to work though, there would have to be a fairly consistant presence of enough people to manage a safe circle.

personally, i thought the bad vibe would come across from the other circle, which is why i suggested a totally different gathering in my previous post ... but this could work if the event had the space/participants to pull it off.


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Page: 123

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