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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:I've started to notice a new trend, at least in america. People are starting to tell their children (and aquantinces, whatever) that there is nothing wrong with homosexuals. They are regular human beings, should be treated like it, and deserve all (well, ok, most) of the rights of a normal human being. Their (children, friends) should treat homosexuals as such.

But said (child/friend/aquantince) should not be a homosexual themselves, b/c it is not ok for them to be homosexual, just, "other people."

Anyone else seeing this? What do you think?

At the very least, I've noticed that it means the kids are still afraid of their own desires.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:It's always been the way. "I don't mind ________, but not in my house." The blank can be gays, blacks, etc... I think it marks a common superficial accceptance, but in reality they haven't truly accepted or dealt with their existing latent homophobia, just masked it to be able to say what polite society says you should say.

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:Just like feminism, it is a war only half-won. Sexism these days is driven far undercover, it is disguised as "personality clashes" between people, or "culture clashes" within an organisation. Even worse, it is no longer even about the attitudes of a person, rather the way we structure institutions. For example, sitting hours of parliament are lengthy, and late at night, and so it is "common sense" that you should only take the job if you can do the hours. But it is often very difficult for a woman to work those hours.

With homophobia, it is "common sense" that people who are gay are exposed to prejudice and difficulties that other sections of society are not. So, following that logic, you would not wish your child to be gay. It is homophobic not because it is actively so, but because it says "that is the way society is and you just need to accept it".

More than that, it refuses to recognise children as separate entities from their parents. Sure, they need guidance, but they also need to experience, because from that grows knowledge and identity.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:It is worse than the "not in my house" thing, b/c it still allows them as friends, just not as specific peoplke. ir would that make it better?

It is so annoying though, I don't understand
*sighs*
Then again I don't understand why my bf's family hates me dating him either. They say the world's weirdest things.

While I'm at it, who knows of cultures than don't condem sex with cousins? I got into a discussion about it w/someone earlier today, but then had to leave.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:This is exactly how I felt coming out to my parents. They have no problem with people being gay...until it's me.

But I think my father's death reminded all of us that there are bigger things in life than who we are attracted to.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 3044
Posted:it is a time to separate those who merely feel morally superior because they 'are so open minded about everything,' and those who really believe in the equality and open mindedness of what they preach. the ' i accept it, but not in my house' philosophy really seeems to reveal some as hypocrits.

i suppose that at present it is not all perfect, there still is discrimination of all forms in the workplace, but on the other hand - look how much the society has progressed!! compare it to post WWII when school girls where shown those wonderful black and white 'how to properly act as a woman' videos, persuading them to be ideal submiissive yet useful housewive. in the US this was in part driven by the rising powers of the psychiatric profession, and a belief that the men suffering from war trauma from WWII were actually made weak and more suseptable to shock because the society was becoming too liberal with insufficiently masculine control. equality took a step back then, but its gone forward a long way since.
ok i went somewhat off topic then, i just finished a semester of the history of psychiatry and love this topic.

any way, most of our parents were still bought up in the 50's and 60's (well, mine were) - in still a relatively conservative society, probably more focussed on christianity than nowadays. weve been mostly bought up in the relatively more open-minded society, with more varied religious beliefs and culture (well, that my perception of australia, i cant speak for all countries). consider the cultural context of when the previous generation was brought up, its hardly surprising.

also some of the prejudice comes from fear. many parent fear their kids turning into the gay stereotype - sleeping around, unprotected sex, turning into an effeminate drag queen, saying 'daaaarling' and flopping wrists left right and centre. some parents fear their kids gay friends may 'convert their child.' yes, it is ridiculous. personally, my parents and there friends dont actually know anyone who is gay. they have only ever been exposed to the steroided man in a pink g-string dancing with erractic pelvic thrusts standing on top of a 6 meter statue of a penis on a truck at the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras. when i told my parents i was bi, my mother immediately jumped to the worst case stereotype scenario - and all the aids/hiv panic. its what parents to - they worry.
so, i can hardly blame parents if they are not all the liberal progressive open minded souls they sometimes wish they could be. the society in which they were brought up in plays a major part, but that is combined with the parental worry instinct, and over-exposure to the gay stereotype. plus, i agree with Rozi, in that parents dont want to see their child discriminated against.

well. thats enough of my ranting. i have spoken on this from a purely personal perspective so forgive me if ive made any generalisations which dont apply to you. hope i havent drifted off topic too much

sex with cousins... well, probably in
a) some backwater hillbilly town, where everyone is called billy-bob, billy-bubba, and billy-sue, and related to each other by at least 2 paths

b)outskirts of salt-lake city, utah. some of those polygamous mormons have strange ideas of how to get into heaven\

c) the entire networks of european royal families for the past 1000 year. there been some dodgy politically motivated marriages in the past

take care all.


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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cicatrix


member
Location: Montreal

Total posts: 32
Posted:I totally hear where you're coming from, yet I still feel that this kind of attitude, while not ideal, is at least a start and miles beyond the older 'it's evil' kind of mentality. I mean, most kids can immediately see the illogic and hypocrisy inherent in 'it's ok for everyone else, just not for us' - much more easily than if they're just told that it's universally bad across the board. At least these days kids are growing up with visibly gay and 'out' positive role models, a far cry from even 5 years ago. I think/hope/pray/dream that if nothing else this kind of attitude is a sign of progress, and perhaps even a road marker on the way to total equality and acceptance for all (hey, I said dream, didn't I?)

'share and enjoy'

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:If your greatest fear in life was that your child grew up and somewhere down the road murdered somebody, would you not teach your child to respect people, to avoid voilence, to be peacefull?

Maybe these people are so afraid of their kids growing up and being homosexuals that they are trying to teach them not to be.

I have no clue, I am not a psychiatrist or a psycholigist just a guess.


The "its okay for them, but not us" psychology isnt inherently bad, what if everyone was running around stealing, but your parents wish to hold you to a higher standerd, is that wrong? No, of course not. However just like most things it can be twisted into something else.

Personally, I dont see things getting better for homosexuals, I really dont. I would want the best possible life for my child, if being gay prevented that I would really hope that my children could avoid that hurdle in life.

Is this wrong? I dont think it is. However the idea of being open-minded is that you can accept my view point as well as everyother. I am sure I will get flack for this but ohh well... its how I feel, I hope yall can accept that.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Paddy


back from the dead...sort of
Location: 4341'N 7938'W

Total posts: 884
Posted:Ray, it makes sense that being gay in this world entails complications that, in an ideal world, would be nice to deal with out. But *if* you think that way, the question is: would you try to steer you child away from a homosexual life just because of those complications? I would hope the answer is no.

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 3044
Posted:Ray,
quote:However the idea of being open-minded is that you can accept my view point as well as everyother. I am sure I will get flack for this but ohh well... its how I feel, I hope yall can accept that. of course! if i couldnt accept your point of view id be the hypocrite ive been critisiing! flack? id prefer to call it a decent discussion
quote: The "its okay for them, but not us" psychology isnt inherently bad, what if everyone was running around stealing, but your parents wish to hold you to a higher standerd, is that wrong? No, of course not. However just like most things it can be twisted into something else.
well yes, however stealing is a bad/negative thing, but open mindedness (is that even a word?) and acceptance is a positive attitude. its hard to relate attitude of freedom of sexuality to murder. i cannot seem to follow your logic - however i am work at present and so my logic circuits are occupied elsewhere
i thought the major issue was that attitudes have evolved from openly disciminating and condeming non-heterosexuals, to a more passive attitude where they profess to be tolerant and accepting on paper, but when its put to the test its obvious how flimsy that paper was (thats a very weird analogy i know).

how can you say attitudes will not change??? compare the present to 20 years ago. homosexuals can worship in some churches and even join the clergy. same-sex marriages are becoming legalised, openly gay,lesbian and trans citizem are in parliment. its not the perfect utopia yet, but its hard to say things are not getting better!
but then again, i try to be an optimist person.

what do you guys think? hopefully i havent missed the point too much.....


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:The US Civil War ended in what 1866? Are black people treated exactly the same as white? True, thing are evolving faster for homosexuals but I have no reason to believe that they will be treated as 100% equals for a very very long time.

Are they equal? That is for you and you alone to decide.


Paddy, I dont have kids, I dont know what I would do with em... personally the idea of kids period scares me!

I do know that I will do whatever it is that I feel is right at the time.

Should I encourage them to be gay? No, should I encourage them to be strait, well it is my belief that homosexuality is a choice. Just like a lightbulb it can be turned off and turned on, it might not be as quick but I feel its a choice.

I will encourage my children to make the right choice.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Pyroteknik


member
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Total posts: 6
Posted:About the choice thing,
would you choose to be gay?
Is being straight a switch you can
turn on and off?
ask yourself that.
You can't switch it on and off unless you happen to have some degree of bisexuality in you.

I was born gay, and tried hard with much grief as a teen to be a hetero. I never would have chosen to be gay, although I must say that now my life has never been more wonderful and I have no regrets regarding how I was born. (maybe living in Canada helps

Some people claim to have "gone straight", but only with the brainwashing and conversion of fundamentalist religion. That is suppression of your feelings, not switching a choice on and off.

There was no choice for me or any other gay person I know. for true happiness, you have to follow what is truly in your heart, and that is what all people should be taught in my opinion.


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frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:quote:But said (child/friend/aquantince) should not be a homosexual themselves, b/c it is not ok for them to be homosexual, just, "other people."

Anyone else seeing this? What do you think?

At the very least, I've noticed that it means the kids are still afraid of their own desires./QUOTE]
That would be christianity then - hate the sin not the sinner...

[QUOTE]No, should I encourage them to be strait, well it is my belief that homosexuality is a choice. Just like a lightbulb it can be turned off and turned on, it might not be as quick but I feel its a choice.

I will encourage my children to make the right choice.You will encourage your children to 'make the right choice'?

Who's right choice?

Yours?

Since you say homosexuality is just a switch on/off thing why don't you switch it on for a while? Do you think you could? Just come to find the idea of doing 'that' with the opposite sex pretty gross and to fancy your own?

I'm reckoning that you're shaking your head and saying you couldn't.

Well guess what... we can't either.

YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE.

Born black, born gay, born straight, born scared.

People saying "oh it's just a switch, i'll encourage my kids to make the right choice" have been responsible for more suicides than they could possibly imagine.

After all what else can the kid do once they know how deeply you HATE them.

Even if you are willing to let them be gay as long as it's nowhere near you...

Will salve your conscience beautifully until you find out you're no longer talking with your kids cos you've spent your life rubbing in how much you actually hate them.

niiice


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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cicatrix


member
Location: Montreal

Total posts: 32
Posted:I think that what most people are trying to say is not that they would hate their gay child but that they would be afraid for their child and would want to protect them. Many people do still believe that being gay is a 'choice' sort of like being a Goth or a Raver or some other fad. This is mostly because until recently that's what everyone was taught it was. While it is not impossible that some people are 'choosing' to be gay, I think it's pretty obvious that this accounts for the vast minority, and in order to be able to 'choose' to be gay you must have that option already hardwired into you (i.e. being bi or something similar....) I think that there are probably a lot more people out there who are choosing to be straight - most gay people of my acquaintance, especially outside of progressive societies such as Canada's, would give almost anything not to be gay. Just my own thoughts on the matter.

'share and enjoy'

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Strait or gay, you have the physical and mental capability to act on those feelings.


You know, those so called open-minded people really dont exist.


Look folks you have the right to do what you will with whomever you care about, I do not agree with homosexuality, never have never will. I dont hate you or anyone else for that matter. I find what you do morally wrong and frankly medically wrong.

Look at the human anatomy, without going into detail you can see that the parts just dont fit right! That in itself is natures way of prooving hey tab A, slot B and there is no other way of doing it.

A man cant get a man pregnent nor can a woman get a woman pregnent. Why would nature create something that wouldnt reproduce. Yes there are some cases where people are born physicaly incapable (meaning they lack parts) of reproducing.


I ask you, can you make a conscience desicion to obstaine from sex?

If you can, why cant you obstain from having sex with the same sex?


Your absolutly right though, if my kids turn out gay, I'll lock em in the basement with a loaded gun and tell them to rectify the problem... WHAT ARE YOU MAD???

Saying intolerant people cause people commit scuicide is like saying that music is the reason all those kids were killed at Columbine!

People commit scuicide because they loose hope in themselves, because they a weak. They cant handle being teased or picked on, so they think that if they just kill themselves then everything will be better! They are wrong.

Sure blame me for your own problems in life. Take the easy way out.

Something I was tought as a kid, everytime you point your finger at someone, there are always more pointed back at you from the same hand.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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polythene


veteran
Location: London/ Surrey

Total posts: 1359
Posted:ray, you can't make yourself pregnant by masturbating either, but a hell of a lot of people do that that don't agree with homosexuality on the biological basis.

You can choose not to act on your impulses. But you cannot choose who you are attracted to in the first place, or make yourself be attracted to someone you're not, in this sense, gender is irrelevant. I believe that a bisexual could 'choose' in order to avoid complications in the same way that I might turn down a guy likely to break my heart, but if you aren't attracted to the opposite sex, you could only pretend otherwise. It may not be what nature originally planned, but a lot of characteristics of our species aren't.


The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.

Always make time to play in the snow.

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cicatrix


member
Location: Montreal

Total posts: 32
Posted:yeah, the whole biological imperative crap is kind of easily and obviously negated by the fact that humans are one of the few animals that does not go into oestrus and uses sexual intercourse for bonding and recreation purposes rather than solely for reproduction. But even animals that do experience an oestrus period display homosexual behaviour as a response to numerous natural stimuli, most commonly a spike in the male population of a social group. (this kind of behaviour has been repeatedly observed in ape, dog and cat social groups among others)
Oh, and if I were your kid, I don't think I would have killed myself, tho I definitely would have run away about as soon as I was capable of doing so, and possibly torched the house on my way out. Not everyone inflicts violence on themselves as a response to ostracism, you're right. Some ppl inflict it on others, c.f. Columbine. Which I think most likely had more to do with, yes, social/class stratification and ostracism than with Marilyn Manson.


'share and enjoy'

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Cool, live your lives the way you wish. You pretty much have that right, I accept that you feel the way you do, but I dont agree with it and probably never will.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Pyroteknik


member
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Total posts: 6
Posted:Ray,

You are entitled to your opinions, of course.
but in turn, I would like to respond to some of
your comments. Homosexuality is not biologically incorrect, and sexual practise is not as black and white as "A fits B". Since we're talking biological function of sex parts, A also fits C ,where the prostate gland is conveniently located and stimulated, often resulting in instant orgasmic pleasure. These and many other options both homos and heteros engage in. All kinds of different animals on the planet that engage in homosexual activity, and it appears to be a fact of life. It's a random beauty of nature, to be chaotic in some ways. Why should someone abstain from having sex with someone of the same sex? because people like you disapprove? Because this goes against the norm? such reasons are irrelevant and invalid, and certainly do not justify ignoring wonderful, naturally occuring feelings and expressions of love. Do you have a girlfriend, and like girls? How about you abstain your emotions, and abstain from sex for the rest of your life. See how good it feels to be told that you should live your life this way if you want to be considered "moral".

Please open your mind, live and let live.

Regarding people who take their lives as weak, Such weakness IS fostered by people who proclaim that homosexual feelings are immoral or unnatural. It is not immoral to follow your heart and emotions (as consenting adults). We remember all of the times we hear "fag" in the schoolyard, on the bus, or walking down the street. When you are a kid, and a teen, hearing such things creates deeply rooted self hatred that you cannot understand as a hetero. I agree that they are wrong to take their own lives, they should stand up and fight. But it can be hard to keep going when it seems that the whole world is against you. So called "moralists" have no right to be in the judges chair. No one can judge you but yourself and that higher force out there.

Belive me, I'm not worried about my decisions in life. I have a wonderful relationship filled with love and joy that has lasted for years, and I have lived a more moral lifestyle than many heteros I know out there! (if i were to judge morality, which i will not )


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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 3044
Posted:quote: The US Civil War ended in what 1866? Are black people treated exactly the same as white? True, thing are evolving faster for homosexuals but I have no reason to believe that they will be treated as 100% equals for a very very long time. Are they equal? That is for you and you alone to decide. yes, i know. i never said everything is perfect now, we do not live in Utopia. my point was that changes take time. sure black people are still discriminated against, but look at how things have progressed!
you said:
quote:Personally, I dont see things getting better for homosexualsdo you have any gay/bi friends with opinions on this? what do they think?
i think its also a relevant point where we are all living at present. im in sydney at uni - which is one of the most non-conformist open-minded organisations ill probably every be exposed to. many of my friend are in the surrounding suburbs - newtown/glebe area - a very arty, slightly hippy relaxed area - many young people - so in that environment theres very little discrimination. but thats the world ive been exposed. maybe that has made me a more optimistic person for change.


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:Please please please, if your going to quote me, quote me in context!

I said that things wernt going to change for a very very long time.

I even said that things were changing alot quicker than in the past but I still dont think that things are going to be equal.

Your in Sydney, Im in Southern Japan sitting on a US Marine base. To me that means nothing. I dont feel that morals are subject to enviroment. Is action X less moral because your in Timbuctu or is it more moral because your 5 feet from the sumit of Mt. Everist.

I know that change does happen, but that it does take time. I am not saying it wont happen just that it will take a long time. Change taking alont time is better than no change at all.

I'm not descriminating, frankly if a homosexual person wanted to be in the Corps I would say cool! If he or she can pick up a rifle, follow orders, and do their job then I say let em in! I view them as equal in capability both mental and physical... I mean a one armed man cant hang from a tree and wave at you at the same time hehe

All I am saying is that others dont share that opinion and getting them to either move out of the way or change will take time.


Open-mindedness as yall so like to call it doesnt exist. Or atleast true open-mindedness.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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sarah...


member
Location: Central coast / Sydney, Austra...

Total posts: 339
Posted:who are we to say whats "natural" or whats "normal"? i say, follow your desires and whatever consequences come at you, decide whether its worth it or not. if youre gay and the public gives you a hard time, is that price youre paying worth being with your same sex partner? if it is, embrace it and accept that poeple just dont understand. if the pain is just to unbearable and its not worth it, then dont pay that price... its all up to you...
you are the only one who can decide whether your decision is the right one.

may peace and love be with you all.... and may you all have a killer love life!!!


Fire... A bushmans telly

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Paddy


back from the dead...sort of
Location: 4341'N 7938'W

Total posts: 884
Posted:Only thing I'll add is that the whole "it's not natural" argument just doesn't fly for me, because as far I can see, it's happening everywhere and it's not due to tinkering by anyone or anything- i.e. it's 100% au naturel.

But that's just my opinion, and everyone else may have their own.


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frostypaw


Great balls of fire
Location: Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Total posts: 643
Posted:quote:Your in Sydney, Im in Southern Japan sitting on a US Marine base. To me that means nothing. I dont feel that morals are subject to enviroment. Is action X less moral because your in Timbuctu or is it more moral because your 5 feet from the sumit of Mt. Everist.That's too true sadly and all too often what decides right and wrong.

But surely that if anything only reminds us that to decide that something is utterly wrong and unnatural in haste can only be foolish?

After all it was once thought that women were helpless and stupid and shouldn't be allowed to vote etc

Aren't we glad we got that one sorted out eh?


I can SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:I only have two words in responce, "Hilary Clinton"

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 3044
Posted:ahh ray, i understand your point of view now.... its always hard to guess the tone of voice which a message was intended in text form ....
but in response you must also quote me in context -
in discussing world and cultural location, im refering to the acceptance I see for all minority groups, and the hope i have for equality in the future based on MY experiences. these experiences are no doubt different from what you and others have seen in there lives. what i see in my world makes me think society is progressing rapidly, what you have experienced causes you to think things change more slowly. thats the point im trying to make.
dont worry, im not saying morals are affected by location.

i really am enjoying this! its been a while since ive enjoyed a decent debate! maybe i should check out the war forum for the first time!
cheers all


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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preambled


member
Location: auckland

Total posts: 53
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
Look at the human anatomy, without going into detail you can see that the parts just dont fit right! That in itself is natures way of prooving hey tab A, slot B and there is no other way of doing it...... ever had a blowjob?

quote:A man cant get a man pregnent nor can a woman get a woman pregnent. Why would nature create something that wouldnt reproduce.Lots of men and women can't get each other pregnant. I don't get it, what are you trying to say with that statement?


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:quote: Lots of men and women can't get each other pregnant. I don't get it, what are you trying to say with that statement? Uhhhuh... but that is due to a medical reason, not the fact that the organs on the body dont match up!


Yah well if you can stand toe to toe and get or give a blowjob then I just wont say another thing on subject!


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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cicatrix


member
Location: Montreal

Total posts: 32
Posted:quote:Originally posted by frostypaw:

After all it was once thought that women were helpless and stupid and shouldn't be allowed to vote etc

Aren't we glad we got that one sorted out eh? quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
I only have two words in responce, "Hilary Clinton" Excuse me? Did that mean what I think it meant? Wow. I don't have anything to say in response that's not a flame, and it takes rather a lot to genuinely offend me that much. Wow.


'share and enjoy'

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Dio


Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA

Total posts: 729
Posted:I remember when..... it was....

Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be Cowboys!

Ok, levity aside... what's everyone's take on the setting aside of a high school for exclusively gay students in NY state right now? If you're unaware, click the link:

First Gay-Only High School In New York


What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California

Total posts: 2905
Posted:It was a lued joke about that particuler woman in politics. My own opinion about her and her alone, dont read to far into it.


The highschool in New Yorks goal of giving students a place to attend without grief, I think has merret but they wont be grief free.

I fear that it may cause harm down the road from segrigating, that is, if the idea takes off and is coppied elsewhere. Honestly if it stays local I doubt there will be much of an effect.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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