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Chris Phoenix


stranger
Location: Belmont, CA

Total posts: 12
Posted:I'm trying to understand plane shift. I saw one mention that said with practice it could be done quickly.

Doesn't a weave basically involve a plane shift? When I do a weave, I more or less have the poi moving in diagonal planes. Maybe this isn't the "right" way to do it, but it got me thinking:

The poi is always moving in a circle with my fingertips at the center. A plane shift is moving the poi to another circle that touches the first at one tangent (not crossing) point, right? So the poi doesn't have to change direction much - it's my hand that moves, from the old center to the new center, while the poi is at the point where the two circles touch, and the poi shifts smoothly from the old circle to the new.

Since I can't move my hand instantly, I start moving it before the poi reaches that point, and end after it passes. As long as the move is symmetrical in time, it seems to work.

Thinking about it this way has given me a lot more control of what plane the poi-circle is in. I haven't read the whole site yet, but I have looked for this description and haven't found anything like it. Several of the videos seem to assume you have to do a stall to change planes.

Is this interesting? Useful? Already well known?


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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:I think it is known, but generally as theory.

Look for meenik's videos on "orbing" and "saloon doors", which I think are pretty much bang on what you are describing, but he only uses it as a drill, as far as I know.

Technically a weave is a plane change (probably), but the idea behind most peoples' weave is to get the poi to switch from side plane on one side of the body to side plane on the other. Most people seem to think of plane changes as being something that happens in 90 degree steps. I could be wrong and this is just my perception of the matter, but anyway. smile

This is the same way that all butterflies are very slightly atomic.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Sister Eleven
GOLD Member since Aug 2009

Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1277
Posted:I'm still actually not entirely sure if a weave counts as plane bending. In theory a force applied along the axis of rotation should be independent of the poi's angular momentum--while the head crosses a diagonal path, if you stop it half way through that path you don't end up with a diagonally spinning poi, but a wheel plane poi in buzzsaw position. From what I've seen, most plane bends don't simply use the existing momentum of the poi, but use subtle movements to not-quite-stall the head.

Of course I think of the plane of my poi as defined by its instantaneous angular momentum, and as being on the "same plane" at two moments if the momentum of one can be obtained from the other just by linearly translating it. So maybe my version of plane is beside the point of the question tongue2 Also I was never much good with angular momentum, so if someone knows a reason why a weave would be applying torque enough to actually change the plane, please correct me.


p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s

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meshunderlay
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA

Total posts: 612
Posted:I wouldn't say a weave is plane bending, but it's definately changing from one plane to another.
I think the problem here is the two uses of the word planes as Poi spinners use them. For instance, if you are doing a Split-Opposite Antispun Flower in front of you, then you are spinning in the wall plane, right? Right. BUT, both poi cannot be in the same "plane" as they would hit each other.

You can however do a 3 beat weave without the poi ever leaving their original plane by simply moving yourself around the weave instead of the weave around yourself. ^_^


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Chris Phoenix


stranger
Location: Belmont, CA

Total posts: 12
Posted:Searches on "orbing" or "saloon" found no results. Searches on "orb" or "meenik" found too many. Can you give me URLs?

Also, what does "atomic" mean? I found the glossary, and it points to videos that have atomic this or that, but not a definition.

Sorry if I'm being a noob, but I've previously spent hours getting familiar with this site, and 15 minutes searching to understand your post, and I haven't found what I need yet.

Thanks!

Chris


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Chris Phoenix


stranger
Location: Belmont, CA

Total posts: 12
Posted:Sister Eleven: I know what you mean about not-quite-stalling the head. I've seen this in videos about plane shifting. This is not what I'm talking about. Planes can be shifted abruptly that way, and it makes the speed and trajectory of the poi go through rather abrupt changes.

With what I'm talking about, the speed of the poi doesn't change at all. And even the instantaneous direction doesn't change - there are no sharp turns in the poi's trajectory.

Imagine a coil spring with very thin coils pressed tight together. Consider two of these coils - two beats. The coils are basically in the same position as each other. Two circles, superimposed. They define a plane. Actually, either one defines a plane - the same plane as each other.

Now bend the spring so that the coils fan out. The two adjacent coils no longer define the same plane. They're two different planes - but one circle flows smoothly into the other along the inside curve of the bent spring. If you just took two adjacent coils and pried them apart, the area of transition from one coil to the other barely moves at all. What does move is the center of the coils - which is where the fingertips are holding the string.

By the way, from a physics point of view, I don't think that the poi actually has angular momentum. If you cut the string, the ball would go in a straight line - no angular momentum there. Angular momentum has meaning only in a system of multiple masses rotating with respect to each other.

If the circle defined by the poi were a solid disk, spinning, then it would have angular momentum, and a center of rotation, and I see what you mean about linear translation and defining planes. But there are two problems:

First, it takes force to change momentum, angular or otherwise. So if you think that the poi has angular momentum (above and beyond the centripetal force that the hand is always applying) then you'll be looking for some force that has to be applied to bend the plane. In fact, aside from the force required to move the hand's mass, no force is required to bend planes at all. No torque is required to change the plane in a weave.

Second, if you have two poi spinning in wall plane, but one in front of the other, it is not simple to move them so that their circles intersect. At some point, the poi has to follow a trajectory that is out-of-plane - it has to move toward or away from your body. In fact, I think it has to do at least two plane bends to move from one circle to a parallel circle. If the distance is small, the plane bends are not very noticeable.

Or think of it this way. You're spinning one poi in wheel plane on your left side. You move it across to the wheel plane on your right side in one smooth elegant motion. But what would happen if your hand abruptly stopped halfway across? You haven't applied any abrupt yanks on the string, even when your hand stops abruptly - the poi is always moving at right angles to your hand. But I guarantee that if your hand suddenly stopped, the poi would keep swinging in a circle - and the plane of the circle would be diagonal! You would have just accomplished a plane bend. So when your hand does the complete motion, instead of stopping halfway across, you have just done at least two plane bends!


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Chris Phoenix


stranger
Location: Belmont, CA

Total posts: 12
Posted:OK, so we definitely need some precise terms here.

meshunderlay, I agree with what you're saying about two uses of "plane". So... I'll just say that when a poi moves around a center (fingertips) whose position does not change for some period of time, it is following a "circle" and two circles are either "parallel" (e.g. both in wall plane) or at some angle to each other.

I don't know if "plane bend" and "plane shift" are the same or not. I'm happy for "plane shift" to be the almost-stall-and-redirect thing that was referenced above, and "plane bend" to be what happens when it keeps moving at the same speed. So a novice trying to spin in wheel plane, whose circle slowly rotates till the poi hits them, is performing continuous plane bends. :-)

So I guess what I'm saying is that, any time the center of the circle (the fingertips) moves out of the plane of the circle, in such a way that the poi's instantaneous motion remains at right angles to it, then the poi will keep moving smoothly, but in a different plane. (If the fingertips move _in the same_ plane as the circle, you can do stalls, flowers, etc - you will usually change the poi's speed, or radius of its trajectory, or both.)

Say you're spinning forward in wheel plane on your left. At some point in time, the poi is directly in front of your hand (at the level of your hand), heading straight for the ground.

Now freeze time, and move your hand (with the string) to a point directly to the right of the poi (the same height above the ground). Start time again. Now the poi is still moving at the same speed, and in the same direction - toward the ground - it is still moving at right angles to your hand, so it will move in a smooth circle.

But, because your hand moved, the poi's circle will now be in wall plane, spinning counterclockwise.

I think you don't need to move your hand instantly to accomplish this. If it takes you half a second to move your hand, then start 1/4 second before the poi reaches the level of your hand, and finish 1/4 second after. If the move is symmetrical, and your hand's path keeps a constant (centripetal) force on the string, then the poi should move smoothly from wheel plane to wall plane in a fraction of a second.

OK, I'll stop typing now... :-)


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Teamo
GOLD Member since Dec 2009

Teamo

Almost again
Location: Finland

Total posts: 124
Posted:I think the orbing video was removed from meenik's channel a good while ago. Here's a video that demonstrates the same concept, just so that we're all on the same page:


Orbing can of course be done on all the 3 axes. The spring coil example Chris gave is closest to what's happening here. Imagine bending a spring coil into a circle, and you basically have the path of the poi in orbing (also called a helical torus)

To my best understanding the difference between "plane shifting" and "plane bending" has been considered to be the occurrence or non-occurrence of stalls with "plane change" being a metaterm to describe both. By this definition both orbing and the weave are both plane bends. BUT, there is a definite distinction to be made between 2. First let's take a look at the weave variation:

What Chris described in the last 4 paragraphs of his latest post is exactly the same kind of plane change we use for weaves. Albeit for weaves, the angular change of the plane is usually somewhere around 30-60 degrees, taking into account that when looked from above the shape formed is a v-shape instead of changing from one perfect wheelplane to another. This same type of change can indeed be done in 90 degree increments like Chris described, throughout all the planes of a cube. It doesn't have to be a cube though, feel free to try out going through the sides of any geometric solid you can think of. With some slight point isolation or floating to compensate for gravity, this same type of plane change can actually be done all the way to 180 degrees.

So we have a full capacity of 180 degrees with this kind of plane bending. It is radically different in principle to the type of bending we use for orbing though. With orbing, rather than moving between 2 planes that have an angular relationship with each other, we are gradually moving the position of the original plane we start on. This leads to different conclusions. For example, if you use the "weave" plane change to transfer from wheelplane to wallplane, you end up spinning in a different direction than if you do the same change with orbing (although with proper use of the weave plane change, you can actually end up having it spin in any direction you want.. But that is somehthing I'd rather not try to explain in text, my linguistic capabilities run short, and this post would bloat in size..)
This difference is possibly one of the reasons some people are disinclined to have them both under the same term of "plane bending". Orbing is closer to the colloquial feeling of "bending", as you need to carve the air a bit with your hand to make this happen. And it resembles it more in principle as well.

So maybe we should fidget the definitions around a bit to suit these differences and make everything clear? (It might be that my conception of the usage of these terms was invalid to begin with. Still, my proposition is the same..) My proposition for the terms would exclude "plane change" from being a metaterm into a specific one as such:

1. Plane shifting - involves stopping the momentum of the poi momentarily and redirecting it onto a new plane
2. Plane changing - involves using the momentum of the poi to redirect it onto a new plane that shares a tangent with the first one (this is the weave variation)
3. Plane bending - involves using your own energy to gradually move the direction of momentum of the poi.


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Chris Phoenix


stranger
Location: Belmont, CA

Total posts: 12
Posted:Teamo, I think you understand exactly what I'm saying, and I think I understand your post.

If "plane change" is already a metaterm, then I'm reluctant to re-define it. How about a new term, "plane drift," to describe orbing (and newbie non-control)?

I like "plane bend" to describe weave-type plane change, because it fits my intuition / image of taking a coil spring and bending it.

So then here's my proposed version of your list:

1. Plane shifting - involves stopping the momentum of the poi momentarily and redirecting it onto a new plane. See http://www.homeofpoi.com/lessons_all/teach/Library-POI-Plane-Shifting-3_128_0
br>2. Plane bending - involves using the momentum of the poi to redirect it onto a new plane that shares a tangent with the first one (this is the weave variation). If the poi crosses from one side of the arm to the other, then this reverses the direction of spin from the point of view of the hand; with a narrow bend, the audience will not see a reversal of direction; a wide bend starts to approach a figure-eight.
3. Plane drifting, or orbing - involves subtle repeated hand movements to gradually move the direction of momentum of the poi. See

This does not reverse the direction of spin from the hand's point of view, though a drift through 180 degrees will reverse the spin from the audience's point of view.
4. Plane change - a collective term for any of the above.

Does this site actually have a glossary, or just a list of term-to-video links? I still don't know what "atomic" means! A wiki would be great for creating a glossary. The videos are great for learning moves, but text would be a big help for theory reference.

I'm realizing that, just as there's some ambiguity with the term "plane," there's also some ambiguity with the term "direction." I tried to make the above descriptions unambiguous, but they get pretty wordy...


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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRzOpUpws3s
Here is the video I had in mind. These are plane-bends, I understand shifts to be more dramatic changes (like Teamo said). Incidentally almost all that I have seen are at right angles.

Since I think of planes as defined by where your hand is in relation to the plane on which the poi spins (similarly to the normal in physics) as well as where they are in relation to your body (that is, a poi spinning on the outside of an arm [and therefore hand] is in a different plane to one on the inside). This might be a different framework than most people use (in fact, I think it might be very different). This means that a weave, in this framework, *has* to be a plane-switch of some kind. A more common view is that they are not considered one, because going from one side plane to the other is not really changing the plane you are on. Going from side to floor (or any other) will be.

The important thing to remember is that any planes we use and name, are only particular ones chosen out of an entire sphere of a huge number of planes. If you wanted to, and were ridiculously precise, you could for example, have 60 (to pull a number at random) planes with the poi spinning vertically. In practice, most people use 2 vertical planes, perpendicular to each other, although if people are playing with different frameworks, I think 4 is also fairly common.

Slightly unrelated, but you asked for a definition: atomics proper involve two poi in different planes, generally at right angles to each other. (This is for the more usual definition of planes being front, side and horizontal.) From the front, you can get (amongst other patterns) X, +, (|), (-), depending on exactly which two planes you use.

I get the feeling I am not explaining myself very well, for which I apologise. If something is particularly unclear, I will try explain better/in a different way. Also, I have no idea why I use so many parentheses....


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Chris Phoenix


stranger
Location: Belmont, CA

Total posts: 12
Posted:Yes, that "saloon doors" looks exactly like "orbing." And the narrator used the word "drift" which fits my proposed definition list.

I don't think we can get away from "plane" having multiple meanings at different levels of precision: Any plane parallel to the wall in front of you is "wall plane." So perhaps we should talk about the location of the circle the poi is spinning in, if we want to be clear that we're not talking about a collective "named set-of-planes" plane. Circles will usually be nameless, since from the physics point of view, it doesn't matter where they are relative to the room.

Aside from a stalled poi, every poi always has one circle that it's moving in at any one moment, and to shift from one circle to another, the two circles have to be tangent. This theory has helped me a lot - if I'm trying to move the poi behind my back, and it hits my shoulder or my leg, I can figure out that I need to shift the timing of my move relative to the poi's position in the (old) circle, because the two circles need to be tangent pretty much directly behind my spine.

Of course, since my hand doesn't move instantly, it's not really just two circles, and I suppose someone sometime will invent a spiral move where the hand moves at a steady speed out of the plane of the circle, pulling the poi in a helix. Then we'll need a whole new set of terms. But for moves that take place in a reasonably small fraction of a beat / spin, it's probably close enough to think of them as just two circles.

(To move from one circle to a parallel circle, in a single move, cannot be done with just a single plane-bend; it requires either two plane bends, or more realistically, the kind of helical track I mentioned in the previous paragraph. So really, we're already doing this move, and if one moved the hand back and forth in rhythm with the beats, one could indeed make the poi describe a helix.)

Thanks for the atomics definition. That would have been hard to figure out from the videos.

I think your explanations are fine. It's just that I don't know all the words yet.


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meshunderlay
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA

Total posts: 612
Posted:I always called it "Plane Breaking" when you stall and switch planes, and "Plane Bending" when you do the saloon-door thing.

Atomics are usually 2 circles being spun 90 degress apart from each other I beleive, if that wasn't covered already.


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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:A three beat weave does create a helix if viewed from the front and with the side to side motion really exaggerated. (It is easier with a 5bt, since you have more time to move, but doable with three as well.)

http://martinb.za.net/gallery/img/Gallery_14.jpg
is a good(-ish) example of what you are talking about though. In order to get the poi over and under my arms, they *have* to be bent and meet at an angle somewhere. If they did not, they would not be able to move over and under an arm, unless the arm moved, leaving them stationary.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Chris Phoenix


stranger
Location: Belmont, CA

Total posts: 12
Posted:OK, so "plane breaking" and "plane shifting" seem to be two terms for the same thing: stall and switch planes.

Aston, excellent image! Thanks! The red path (on the viewer's right) is a clear example of two tangent circles: plane bending.

The blue path (on the viewer's left) doesn't seem to have tangent circles. Instead, they cross, like a very short fat figure 8. I think they make more of a helix - they're not really closed circles at all.

So here's a new proposed term: Plane twisting. When you move the fingertips smoothly in an out-of-plane direction, for a large fraction or more of a beat, so that the poi follows a helix, that's plane twisting.

So we have:

1. Plane shift or break - stall and redirect to a new plane.
2. Plane bend - two circles share a tangent. Rapid hand movement between centers of circles. Example: weave.
3. Plane drift, or orbing - subtle repeated hand movements, synchronized with the beat, to gradually change the plane. Example: saloon doors.
4. Plane twist - move the hand slowly out of plane, creating a helix.
5. Plane change - a collective term for any of the above.

Does anyone disagree with any of this?

Chris


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Teamo
GOLD Member since Dec 2009

Teamo

Almost again
Location: Finland

Total posts: 124
Posted:On the image Aston provided, the same exact thing is happening on the left and on the right. This crossing action is exactly the weave type of plane change we're talking about. Just because the viewer's perspective is slightly different and it looks like a figure 8 instead of a v-shape, doesn't change the fact that even the blue circles share a tangent on the crosspoint.

Something to keep in mind is that in the end the concept of planes is just an attempted 2D representation of movement in what is ultimately 3D space. This is just me speculating, but I do think somewhere along the line there will have to be compromises in regards to how physically accurate the terms areand what amount of said accuracy is useful.


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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:I was doing exactly the same thing, as Teamo said. You are just seeing one from more in front of the crosspoint and one from the side. Depending on where you look at 3D moves, many of them look quite different.

And I agree with Teamo regarding accuracy. Somewhere in my meanderings earlier on I made a point about being able to define as many planes as you want. Most people only use 3, with some parallel to those. If you start adding in diagonals it goes up to around 9.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Chris Phoenix


stranger
Location: Belmont, CA

Total posts: 12
Posted:OK, now that I look closer, I can see that the circles are almost, but not quite, tangent on both sides. If you look at an X edge-on, it looks like a line. So that fooled me on the right.

I agree that they are close to a theoretically perfect weave. I further agree that a theoretically perfect weave is impossible, since your hand would have to move infinitely fast.

And I further agree that, often, striving for too much precision can add confusion.

So I'm happy to call Aston's picture a picture of weave-type plane bending.

I still think it might sometimes be useful to distinguish between large-scale helix-making and nearly-perfect weaving. As Aston said above, a three-beat weave with the motion exaggerated does create a helix.

If I want to explain why a weave sometimes generates a helix and sometimes an angle... or if I need to figure out why my weave keeps hitting me in the shins when I try to get the sides parallel... then it may be useful, for some people (like me!), to have access to the theory at a high level of precision.... which requires a clear vocabulary.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to name any new planes. In fact, personally, I find it easier not to think in terms of "wall" or "wheel" or whatever, at all - it's all relative.

What I'm trying to do is to understand, so I can imagine it in detail with correct physics, what happens as the poi is steered by my hand from one circle to another. If I picture the starting and ending circles that I wanted to happen, then I can know how and when my hand needs to move to make that happen. And if something goes wrong, I can figure out why, and what to change - move the hand slower or faster, earlier or later, farther or tighter, and in which direction.

(This has been a substantial help with plane control.)

And then I can try to make the correct change the next time I do it - and better yet, I can visualize myself doing the correct thing several times, without having to get hit while I mentally build the new pattern.

I suspect most people don't learn poi this way. But this conversation has been _very_ helpful to me. I'm happy to leave it here, and go learn more moves and transitions. I appreciate you all spending your time to help me clarify my understanding.


EDITED_BY: Chris Phoenix (1313479137)


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meshunderlay
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA

Total posts: 612
Posted:Plane drift/Orbing = Plane Bending. At least, the way most people I've heard talking about plane bending are referring to that sort of saloon door thing.

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Chris Phoenix


stranger
Location: Belmont, CA

Total posts: 12
Posted:So what do they call the weave-type plane change?

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thirteen
BRONZE Member since Mar 2011

thirteen

The Death Card
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA

Total posts: 195
Posted:people just call that a weave. while a weave is technically a plane change I guess, it more or less stays in the wheel plane.

plane bending is more like going from a corkscrew to a weave, where you're basically doing the same motion but changing the axis. in a weave, the axis doesn't change, you dig?

it's all semantics... if I go from a weave to a buzzsaw, am I plane shifting? technically, yes. but it's still on the same axis. it all depends on how you look at it.


The dawn has come
And the wine will run
And the song must be sung
And the flowers are melting
In the sun

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Yeah, usually you change the axis for it to be considered a bend/shift. A weave is only a change in a very specific, nitpicky sense.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Chris Phoenix


stranger
Location: Belmont, CA

Total posts: 12
Posted:I guess it depends on whether it's the kind of weave that goes wheel-to-wheel on each side of the body, with very large hand motions, or the kind where you move your hands very little. In the latter case, the poi circles have to be a bit diagonal, right?

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Well, both have to be, but I think most people think of plane changes as being more dramatic than switching body sides is all.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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meshunderlay
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA

Total posts: 612
Posted:As I think I said, the only way to do a weave and keep the poi completely flat/straight the entire time, is to move yourself around the weave instead of the weave around you. ^_^

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Posted:I wouldn't consider a weave a plane shift at all.

You have a few basic planes: wall plane, floor plane, and side plane. When you do a weave, your poi are spinning parralell to each other. An example of a plane change is a cork screw (floor plane) to buzz saw (inverted side plane). Since a cork screw is not parralell to a buzz saw, it is considered a plane change.


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Chris Phoenix


stranger
Location: Belmont, CA

Total posts: 12
Posted:Oscurochu, there are two different meanings of "plane." With your usage of the term, you are correct. Perhaps we should just find a new word. How about "facet"? I don't think I've seen that used for poi yet.

So, any time you change the angle of the poi's circle, you're moving it to a new "facet." The few basic planes are each a facet, but so are all the other circles - buzzsaw, diagonal, and everything in between.

For describing the look of a move, it can be very useful to talk in terms of planes. For figuring out how to do a move, and especially how to do it without the poi colliding with one's body, this newbie has found that awareness of the subtleties of facets and the mechanisms of transitions between them has been very helpful.


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meshunderlay
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA

Total posts: 612
Posted:Originally Posted By: oscurochuYou have a few basic planes: wall plane, floor plane, and side plane. When you do a weave, your poi are spinning parralell to each other...

Not exactly. Because of the way a weave works, the cross point would actually be the middle of an infinity sign and the weave part are the petals. Picture an infinity and bend it inwards around yourself.


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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:*amused*

This is what I thought might happen.

Oscurochu: I address this somewhere in my rambling posts earlier. The usage of planes in this discussion is slightly non-standard, especially when I talk about weaves being plane-shifts. For most people, your perspective is entirely workable and accurate enough. This discussion is heading into slightly esoteric theory though. smile


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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