Kattitude stranger Location: Brizzle Member Since: 8th Jun 2004 Total posts: 1
Posted:Trick Concepts have given me a great deal of stress and i have tried to explain the situation in the most calm and subjective way possible, but if you pick on any strife then it has seeped in due to there being so much of it in the first place! please excuse me if you feel like this. I really feel that Trick Concepts needs to sort these problems out as I am not the only person to suffer from there lack of professionalism.....
In late April (27th) of this year myself and my friend placed an order from Trick Concepts for two sets of fire fans.
When the fans arrived one set broke as soon as we started using them and we noticed that all the welding on them was very poor. It was lumpy, on some points there was not enough solder in the correct places for the connection to hold properly and on one connection the solder had been filed away so much that the integrity of the whole spoke was compromised.
So I emailed Trick Concepts informing them and offered to send the fans back. As the welding was bad on both sets of fans we did not want a replacement, just a simple refund. I contacted them on the 19th May which is clearly within the 60 day return policy to complain and ask how i could get a refund.
There were many emails that bounced backwards and forwards as Jaz from Trick Concepts didnt seem to understand that we did not want a replacement. I sent him photos of the poor quality welding and weak connection to show him the problems. I boxed the fans up and took them to the post office and found out how much it would cost to return them with the correct insurance for how much the fans had cost. I emailed Jaz to inform him of the postage costs and requested that Trick Concepts pay for the return of the fans.
Jaz then said that they would not pay for any postage.
Some time passed and finally i got response from Trick Concept saying that as they wouldnt pay for postage I could keep the fans and that they would refund me $250 dollars. They said that they would send a cheque, great problem solved right?
Then they started ignoring me. They didnt send a cheque.
About two weeks ago my friend finally snapped and started posting on Facebook informing everyone of what they had done.
Finally Jaz emailed back! and have sent a cheque, but only for half the price, $125, saying that he knew nothing about the email in July clearly stating that they would pay us the cost of both sets of fans; $250
He has also said that we contacted him outside of the 60day returns policy, which as you have clearly seen for yourself is wrong and that he didnt understand why both orders were together when it was only one order!
At this point another lady called Pamela from Trick Concepts emailed and asked if I wanted a returns label, why they didnt tell me about this months ago i will never know!
I have never had so many problems with an online company before, they have made me angry, upset and I will never buy anything from them again.
Dont order any equipment from Trick Concepts It is poor quality They will not refund you They may ignore you They may lie to you They are incompetent It will cause you more stress and problems than what it is worth.
JuggleSean Ooops Location: EARTH Member Since: 22nd Oct 2009 Total posts: 116
I am very sorry to hear about your experiences with Trick Concepts. My Wife, and everyone that I know who has ever purchased anything from them have had problems (in one way or another). I second your recommendations 100%. I know one company that I have never had a single problem with, and that is Home of Poi. I love HoP so much that they make me want to happy dance. Shame on you Trick Concepts, you don't make your customers want to dance at all, maybe sad dance or mad dance, but no one likes those types of dance. Take some notes from HoP. Quality and customer service come first! If you have those customers will return and praise you. Long live HoP, quality service and products!
I wish you luck in future purchases and I feel you! Love.
I would like to apologize on behalf of one of our clients who goes by the blogging name "Kattitude", specifically the post dated November 9, 2010 at 5:10pm in All Things Fire .
Suffice it to say that this particular client is very disgruntled and is posting on every fire-related forum she can access. Simply put, she has asked for a refund, but refuses to return the products. We have done everything within reason to satisfy this client, to no avail.
Trick Concepts prides itself on its high quality products, integrity and reputation. As it is not our policy to engage in public displays of confrontation, if you are interested in reading the details of "Kattitudes" claim, you may do so here:
View our detailed response.
Thank you again for your indulgence and continued patience in this matter.
Posted:As a fire performer for The Burn Academy, almost every one of our 40-person conclave uses Trick Concepts fire gear exclusively. In my experience, their fire tools rarely malfunction, and when there is a problem it is solved in a prompt and professional manner. I depend on that quality and service every time I step on stage. I have personally spoken with the people at that company, including and especially the owners. They are a very busy but very nice bunch. But the point remains, in the quality of their products and treatment of their customers, they have always done their best to accommodate every fire spinner I know who works with them.
Elusive and Bearded Location: Scottsdale, AZ Member Since: 2nd May 2007 Total posts: 3597
Posted:Fire Mecca is better
Owned by Mynci!
JuggleSean Ooops Location: EARTH Member Since: 22nd Oct 2009 Total posts: 116
I have read Kattitude's complaint on this site, and I have read your's as well. I also read your detailed response on your company's website. Both stories are obviously the same, but from different views.
In this case, I side with the customer. It is obvious that if you would have sent her shipping labels, so she could return the defective products to you, this entire problem would not exist. Your product was defective, she sent you photos showing the defect, due to the defect on one, she did not trust the second product (I certainly wouldn't for safety reasons). She just wanted you to pay for the shipping cost to ship them back from her, to you, and then a full refund. She paid you $50 dollars to ship the defective products to her. You should pay $50 dollars to have them shipped back.
All you had to do was print out some Fed-Ex or UPS label and send them to her in the mail, shouldn't it only cost $50 dollars to ship them back? Was saving $50 dollars and being cheap worth all of this? To lose a customer and possibly many more that they network with?
I read your 60 day return policy, and I read that "Shipping is not refunded for returns or exchanges." But in the case of a defective fire product, and an upset customer, maybe you should bend your set in stone rules and make it right. (Business 101: Customer is always right)
Also, on your site you say that this customer is defaming your reputation. Defaming is libel, which would require for her to be making a false claim. By looking at your detailed response and hers, it appears that that you are both claiming the same story. Just because she is expressing her opinion about a factual event that just so happens to be a negative review of your company does not give you the right to accuse her of defamation.
On a side note: I mentioned in my previous post that my wife has had problems with Trick Concepts also. The problem was not related to product quality (actually the product quality is great), but with customer support and shipping. The product took an unacceptable amount of time to be received (and we are very patient understanding people), when attempting to contact Trick Concepts via phone and email, we experienced long delays in response time, and once we finally received the product (beautiful LED hoop that met expected quality standards) it was missing the batteries and chargers (including extra battery which was paid for) so we could not even use the product once we finally received it. Trick Concepts did make it right with us, sent the missing parts quickly, but we still decided to not give them anymore business or recommend them to friends due to the poor overall experience.
This bad review of Trick Concepts is not an isolated event, I have seen many on different forums, specifically hoopcity.ca, take a look for yourself.
Best regards to everyone on both sides, even though we may have disagreements in life, let's still love one another! Peace and love to all!
addict Location: Perth Member Since: 4th Jul 2007 Total posts: 489
Posted:OhioSean, I have been buying nearly all my clothes and electronics on the internet and have never found a place that will pay for return shipping. To offer and refund and letting her KEEP the fans in ridiculously generous in my opinion...
I find it wierd that you would insist that they pay for it since it clearly states that they would not, which she KNEW before buying the fans.
JuggleSean Ooops Location: EARTH Member Since: 22nd Oct 2009 Total posts: 116
I frequently purchase items on the web also. I have only returned one product due to it being defective. It was a television. When I received the product, it was defective, the company that I ordered it from gladly paid the return shipping. I was happy with the customer service and am a returning customer.
I work for a company that designs electronics and ships via postal service 100% of its products. When one of our products is received by a customer and reported to be defective we pay for the return shipping. These customers are happy with the customer service and are (typically) returning customers.
This has been my experience in dealing with defective products ordered from an online company.
I understand making a customer pay for return shipping if lets say they ordered and small and later realize they need a large (just an example), but making a customer pay for a manufacturing mistake is just not standing by your product.
This is apparently the company policy, sure. That is the company's choice. Because of their choice they have unhappy customer/s (who I doubt will return to buy more product).
In this case Kattitude clearly didn't want to keep the broken fans at all, they obviously hold no value to her. She wanted a refund. In order to receive the refund she had to return the defective product at her cost. The defective product cost Kattitude $50 to ship to her, and will cost her $50 to ship back, so even after she would received her full refund (of $250), she is out $100.
To me that is not right, but that is just my opinion. (I believe since she paid $50 to have the defective product shipped to her, then they should pay the $50 to ship them back. Does this not make since to anyone? Maybe I am just crazy.)
And people should have the right to state their honest opinion on factual events without being accused of defamation (in regards to Trick Concepts accusing Kattitude of libel).
A wise man or woman once said "You reap what you sow"
All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want Location: Trenton, MI, USA Member Since: 25th Oct 2009 Total posts: 2280
Posted:I'll go ahead and agree with Ohio Sean on this one. If it's the manufacturer's fault in the problem, then they should pay the return shipping as the customer should not be penalized (especially $50) for the manufacturer's mistake. If it is on the other hand something that would like to be returned that is not a manufacturing error, than the customer should go ahead and pay for the damn shipping.
sanguine Location: sur Member Since: 15th Apr 2007 Total posts: 382
Posted:Just for the record, Trick Concepts makes one of the best collapsible fire staves on the market. Ive tried Concentrate, Fibre3, Fire Mecca and TC's staff is heavy, solid, and second only to Gora's (though Ive only tried Gora's full length staff, not his 3piece....that's the only staff for me).
Ive heard problems with their hoops like has been mentioned, but Ive never heard of anyone complaining about their staff. I think that must be their flagship product.
Every company has things that are better and that which they lack. No one has got it perfect, though HOP has one of the widest selections for sure.
Im just stating this because TC has some quality things to offer.
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
Posted:Kattitude, you have convinced me never to buy anything from Trick Concepts. I have been cheated by many websites before, so I find personal consumer reports essential to my online shopping experience. Thanks for letting us know.
Posted:one thing to give to trick concepts is the quality of their kevlar the last set of poi i made with their kevlar lasted over 600 burns before repairs and i have tried kevlar from many comanies and tc is second only to firetoys uk
Posted:I ordered a pair of Khaos fans because I wanted to add a lightweight pair to my arsenal and so many of the fan performers I admire use them. I placed the order on Wednesday at 11:30am EST. It's now Friday at 12:30pm EST and my order status on Trick Concepts' website still shows "Shipment Pending". I have to say I'm a bit shocked that a major retailer would wait more than 48 hours to put something into a box and mail it.
By contrast, when I ordered fans last year from Fire by Riz, I placed the order at 12:30pm on a Thursday, and by 10am Friday I had received a cute and clever email (shown below because it's cute and clever!) letting me know my order had shipped. By the following Friday I had the fans (which have proven to be excellent quality) in-hand. They even came with a free DVD which teaches basic moves and a simple fire fan/belly dance choreography.
I'm still reserving judgment until I receive the product, but I'm already disappointed in TC's customer service for it to take more than 2 days to simply put something in the mail. I would expect that from an Etsy seller working part-time out of their own home, not a major retailer.
Quote:Your order has been gently taken from our Fire By Riz shelves with sterilized contamination-free gloves and placed onto a satin pillow.
A team of 50 employees inspected your order and polished it to make sure it was in the best possible condition before mailing.
Our packing specialist from Japan lit a candle and a hush fell over the crowd as he put your order into the finest gold-lined box that money can buy.
We all had a wonderful celebration afterwards and the whole party marched down the street to the post office where the entire town of Tampa waved 'Bon Voyage!' to your package, on its way to you, in our private Fire By Riz jet on this day.
I hope you had a wonderful time shopping at Fire By Riz. We sure did! Your picture is on our wall as 'Customer of the Year'. We're all exhausted but can't wait for you to come back to Fire By Riz!!
Kindest regards, Randy "Riz" Holmes http://www.firewhip.com/ br> UPDATE: My fans and DVD just shipped. Six and a half days after placing my order. Wow. EDITED_BY: belisamafan (1299618613)
Posted:Thanks guys, reviewing the entire brawl, criticism is plenty (and easy I suppose)... my summary:
1) Kattitude: After reading the blog - did you or did you not agree to send the faulty fans back on your own expense? Why did you change your mind? However, you were offered a full refund on a faulty set and they even would let it go. Another 20 squid would have left you with a perfectly fine set.
Why would TC offer a full refund on a perfectly fine set of fans?
You say that you didn't trust the entire manufacturing quality after the first set was damaged. Did you research and find bad reports on TC on any websites at this time? Did you choose Trick Concept for a particular reason (over any of the choices that you found elsewhere). Did anything indicate that the second set would brake?
2) I do agree though, that generally it's the manufacturers responsibility to pay for return shipping in case of faulty products. TC should revise their company policy on that one.
3) Are we talking about INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING here? Actually it might have cost Trick Concept much more to have their fans shipped BACK to them, than it cost them to ship them TO their customer. It's hard to understand logi(sti)cs.
4) Originally Posted By: KWhen the fans arrived one set broke as soon as we started using them and we noticed that all the welding on them was very poor. It was lumpy, on some points there was not enough solder in the correct places for the connection to hold properly and on one connection the solder had been filed away so much that the integrity of the whole spoke was compromised.
Originally Posted By: TCWe acknowledged that there was a broken weld. However, after inspecting your photos, we did not see anything that would suggest a problem with the quality of the rest of our welds. We offered to have the broken weld repaired in the UK where you live at our expense.
Either one of you was exaggerating, or downplaying or both or none.
But if it's exaggeration and "posted across all fire related forums", then it is defamation.
Against popular belief, firetoys do NOT yield amazing profit margins (with a very few exceptions) and so far I have not heard of a single(!) company that did not have any(!) problems with their products and/ or customer support ever(!)...
Juggler/Spinner Location: Hicksville, New York, USA Member Since: 15th Sep 2008 Total posts: 612
Posted:One really important question. Were the checks TC sent out cashed?
Also, if someone is planning on having a refund sent to them in the form of a check, wouldn't it be prudent to tell the company that they were moving?
No offense when I say this, but from my POV having read both sides, it looks a little like someone trying to get something for free.
Gary_Cifers member Location: Guthrie, Oklahoma Member Since: 4th Jul 2008 Total posts: 64
Posted:In all honesty it sounds like someone didn't take the time to do some research into the companies they were buying from.... Before i ever got my first set of fire poi i started going through site after site (some of which i believe are fraudulent as to having identical photos of their props as another site) and finally decided on HoP... i haven't gone wrong yet and i have had a set of poi that i felt were hazardous due to loose eyelets but they were able to fix that issue quickly... Before you buy anything online do some research into the site you are buying from and not just the product.... I have come across TC before and after reading their own reviews i decided against it(and to anyone from TC i believe there's a site tryin to con people using your photos on their site). I'm not saying that they don't have good products or anything, just that "I" wouldnt buy there
Peace comes from Love which can be found in Flow. Location: Atlanta, Ga Member Since: 9th Oct 2008 Total posts: 10
Posted:I have also had issues with trick concepts... I had a pair of their contact fire swords, and while I loved how they where balanced, the wicks were poorly made. one broke with in two weeks. I called in several times and tried to truble shoot the wicks using suggestions from the wonderful girl who answers the calls... However the wick I had been having issues with practically blew up during a set... the inner cotton linning unravelled and spilled out, while I was spinning... I called in the next day to arrange the return, making it clear that I wanted a refund, on the grounds of manufactures defects... Between the time spent trying to resolve the problem with out returning them, and the time it took them to get back to trick concepts, they arrived on the morning of day 60... However I got a call the next day asking if I wanted a replacement or a refund, and when I said refund, I was told that because it was out side of the 60 day time frame (by a few hours) and I had not included a note, despite having called in and stating my intentions to return then before shipping them, I was charged a 30% restocking fee...
I will never recommend them to anyone, and I will tell my friends that they should only order from trick concepts if they cant find that item anywhere else. I would have given them a second chance had they had better customer service... outside of the girl who answers the phone they have no idea about how to interact with customers...
On a related note...
I bought another pair of contact fire swords from bear claw... and while they are harder for me spin with both at a time, they are much better made... the only issues I have with them is that they are longer and heavier then the pair made by trick concepts, and so I have been working out to gain the strength and endurance to use both at a time.
I say if you want fire toys check bearclaw first and then if you dont see what you want try home of poi... there are some items home of poi does better and some that bearclaw does better at, as well as more then a few things fire related you cant get on Home of poi, which is one of my goto sites..
Peace.Love.Flow With out Peace in your soul, you will not know Love in your heart, which will lead you to your Flow. If you have Peace in your mind, you will have Love in your heart, and then your body will be free to Flow.