Zephyre PhoenixFamiliar stranger giving out popcorn. (formerly Ascilith)
1,264 posts
Location: Lawrence, KS


Posted:
New awesome toy that's a mix between a meteor hammer, Rope Dart, Poi, and awesomeness. It's a puppyhammer.

And here's a video:



It's awesome to play with and seeing them on fire is awesome. They work well.

Never take candy from strangers...... But popcorn is okay!


fire&dreadsrbadSILVER Member
not a stranger
26 posts
Location: maryville tennessee, USA


Posted:
wow thats awesome

"you must burn to learn"


Sister ElevenGOLD Member
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA


Posted:
Really need to get the heads sorted out on my puppyhammer... This looks like it has a lot of potential to replace Rope Dart as my secondary toy (no disrespect to rope dart).

p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s


LyeFate Keeps Telling Me To Stop
270 posts


Posted:
What's wrong with your heads?

SeyeSILVER Member
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK


Posted:
I'm confused. Isn't that just a meteor?

G4dgetGOLD Member
Eternal Student of all things Skill
110 posts
Location: Kansas City, KS, USA


Posted:
I believe its quite a bit longer than a normal meteor. When I say them at kinetic fire you have it wrapped behind your neck and down your arms. You can use them like Poi in your hands, longer Poi with your elbows, mimic staff like moves from around your neck and as a meteor.

Happiness runs in a circular motion!!

G4dget


adeathlyauraGOLD Member
The Poi Spinning Undead
173 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, United States, USA


Posted:
Where can you get these? Or do most people make their own?

Question everything.


Sister ElevenGOLD Member
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA


Posted:
Pretty sure most people are making these themselves right now. They're outlandishly long for a normal meteor and the whole body/arm wrapping aspect is, as far as I've seen, a somewhat new body of technique.

Also, omg is this a tricksy prop. And fun! I may become obsessed with this thing for a while...

p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s


G4dgetGOLD Member
Eternal Student of all things Skill
110 posts
Location: Kansas City, KS, USA


Posted:
Charlie Cushing I believe is being accredited mostly with coming up with the idea and sister is right that it is a whole new aspect to skill toys. If you find Charlie on facebook or in the tech Poi group he has been posting pictures of puppyhammers (not sure how to pluralize) he has been making recently and I'm sure he would let you know some of the technical aspects of its length and what not.

Happiness runs in a circular motion!!

G4dget


Sister ElevenGOLD Member
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA


Posted:
Charlie actually recently posted a tutorial on puppyhammer construction to his youtube channel ("charlicopter" or something like that).

p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s


MynciBRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom


Posted:
I still think it looks like a meteor, just because a staff gets longer it's still a staff... although it could be called a pussywhacker wink

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.


astonSILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa


Posted:
Mynci: It basically is. The length seems to be seven times your forearm. It is then woven behind your neck, to the front of your shoulder, under your armpit, over your elbow from behind and into your hands. The length makes at least some of the common meteor moves I have seen difficult.

But yeah, dunno why the name.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland


SeyeSILVER Member
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK


Posted:
I've definitely used a meteor this long before. It was made from climbing rope with a monkey fist knot in each end and gave me rope burn.

I'm not saying that the skills aren't interesting I just don't think it's a 'new' prop. It's a variation on an existing one.

Mynci - Doesn't Chimera Tim have a giant 'pussywhacker'?
(I vote that ^ as the single most disgraceful sounding innocent statement ever posted on HoP)

charlicopterstranger
5 posts


Posted:
Hey guys. Someone pointed me this way to answer some questions about P.Hammers.

First off:



Next: I understand your qualms about the name "Puppyhammer." It is, of course, essentially a meteor. But it is more the specific TYPE and FRAMEWORK of meteor that makes it a "Puppyhammer." I have had this discussion many times with people and the best description I've come up with to explain the difference is with swords...Think of the difference between a katana and a rapier...they're both swords, but at the same time are utilized in completely different ways. The other thing is that I strongly encourage you to try it out. Once you start flowing with a P.Hammer you may start to see how it is more of a meta-prop...you don't just play with motifs within the paradigm of one prop, you have MULTIPLE paradigms at your fingertips to play with and this really changes things a lot.

A Puppyhammer or "Phi-Hammer" is unique not just because it is a longer meteor, but because it has a VERY specific length with knots placed VERY specifically for the spinner who uses it...If you are 6 feet tall and you try letting your 5 foot friend use your puppyhammer, they will not be able to use it in the puppyhammer-framework. There's wiggle room of course, but it's a surprisingly narrow window.

So this brings me to the dimensions:

A properly tailored puppyhammer seems to share golden-proportions with your body.
For those of you who don't know about the Fibonacci sequence, Phi and sacred geometry:



So the golden ratio:
(Phi) = 1.61803...

And what makes a meteor into a puppyhammer (phi-hammer):
4 knots & a special length which is directly proportional to your Armspan:

-Max. Full P.Hammer length = (Armspan) x (Phi)
-From handle knot to shoulder knot = (Armspan) / (Phi)
-Length from head to handle knot = (Armspan) / (Phi) / (Phi)
-Length between shoulder knots = (Armspan) / (Phi) / (Phi)

There's a bunch of interesting stuff that happens when you do this to a meteor involving balance, contact-meteor inertia/momentum, proportions used when doing spiral wraps, ground clearance, etc...

I hope that helps smile

If you guys have any questions, don't hesitate to ask...If you're interested, you should also join the puppyhammer group on facebook!

May the flow be with you!
-Charlie

astonSILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa


Posted:
Weight of the heads, roughly?

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland


charlicopterstranger
5 posts


Posted:
150-220 grams is best I find.

Currently I am spinning at 190 and it's working great.

astonSILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa


Posted:
Yeah, my Poi that I modded in were a tad light. Thanks. smile

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland


MynciBRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom


Posted:
Originally Posted By: Seye
Mynci - Doesn't Chimera Tim have a giant 'pussywhacker'?
(I vote that ^ as the single most disgraceful sounding innocent statement ever posted on HoP)
I believe he does, and thank you wink I always try.

Charlie, fair play, but the difference between a rapier and a katana isn't utilization its actual design. A rapier is a long thin lightweight dueling sword designed for fast thrusting moves good against non armoured or chainmailed opponents. Katana is a short, slightly curved single edged sword manufactured using a specific method so they have enough unique design changes other than length to identify them, as with say a cutlas or gladius.

I suppose it could be called a "something" meteor to specify purpose. But if the golden ratio to your own body length is important then if used by anyone else it would simply be a massive meteor as the ratio would no longer be golden.

Kudos for an interesting combo toy though.
EDITED_BY: Mynci (1313164277)

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.


CyricxGOLD Member
newbie
28 posts
Location: Kansas City, MO, USA


Posted:
I've been toying with some Rope Dart abilities with it. Hardest part if doing this on fire would be keeping the other head in motion. Of course this could be done by doing chuck style bounces with one while wrapping and releasing the second.

MC coming down to zenfest and making a bunch for us really got something started here in KC. smile

Going to work on building a fire one soon as I get a little more comfortable with the transitions in between shoulder/arm/poi/meteor modes.

Huge kudos Charlie for an awesome concept! smile

US Performer liability insurance run by performers. Why pay more then you have to?

WeAreSafe.org


charlicopterstranger
5 posts


Posted:
Originally Posted By: MynciOriginally Posted By: Seye
Mynci - Doesn't Chimera Tim have a giant 'pussywhacker'?
(I vote that ^ as the single most disgraceful sounding innocent statement ever posted on HoP)
I believe he does, and thank you wink I always try.

Charlie, fair play, but the difference between a rapier and a katana isn't utilization its actual design. A rapier is a long thin lightweight dueling sword designed for fast thrusting moves good against non armoured or chainmailed opponents. Katana is a short, slightly curved single edged sword manufactured using a specific method so they have enough unique design changes other than length to identify them, as with say a cutlas or gladius.

I suppose it could be called a "something" meteor to specify purpose. But if the golden ratio to your own body length is important then if used by anyone else it would simply be a massive meteor as the ratio would no longer be golden.

Kudos for an interesting combo toy though.

@Mynci:
Thanks, it sure is interesting...and painful!
I don't think I explained the "logic" behind the name very well though. What I mean is exactly what you say about the rapier vs katana which are both types of swords, just as puppyhammer is a variant on "chain-weapons. But the knots, scale, weight and balance are significantly different when compared to a conventional meteor hammer...the use of knots is a novel design characteristic not unlike the curvature of a katana, it's 50% longer than the average meteor, and the techniques used during spinning are also quite different. Just as a katana may be used like a rapier but a rapier can't be used like a katana, a puppyhammer may be used like a meteor, but not the other way around, due to design characteristics. You could also posit that a meteor should be regarded as a longish Manriki!

In fact, the quintessential "meteor" is actually a subset of "Chain-weapons" known as the flying-hammer/meteor-hammer/dragon-fist:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_hammer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manriki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_weapon
In any case, there is the single and double headed meteor-hammer, the manriki, and single/double headed Ropedart, etc...All of which are essentially quite similar to one-another. The main differences being head weight/shape, number of ends, framework for usage, etc.
I personally feel that "hammer" does fit the bill rather nicely because of the shape/nature of the heads, although I didn't come up with the name "puppyhammer" (nor do I necessarily agree with it)

I am definitely open to suggestions for a more appropriate name, but I definitely think that people should try it before attempting to name it wink

Hell, for me it's more like augmented-poi than anything else smile

snappdragonEldar: the warrior who fights with fire.
3 posts
Location: FL


Posted:
it's confusing, a meteor is 3-4' and p.hammer is closer to 10-15' depending on who it was made for.

p.hammer and meteor are toy versions of a Chinese weapon known as a meteor hammer that was a double headed rope weapon up to 25 or 30' long.

i call my hammer, just a hammer or a meteor-hammer. i dislike the puppy-hammer moniker.

also for those of you out there actually spinning one of these, I've added a third set of knots to mine at the 'sweet-spot' for single handed contact spinning. it falls just at the outside of my elbow when wrapped in Poi mode. it's ideal for establishing bounce spins like the over head throw.

one last note for those of you making your own. when in doubt about the length needed for an all rope practice set, make it TOO long.(mine is almost 25' long fully extended) i take up the excess in a chain knot near the monkey's fist- either on it like a snake tail, or slightly separated so i can still practice hyper loops.

there are three main reasons for having several extra feet of rope. the first is added weight at the heads, the second being adjustability- if someone wants to try spinning your hammer you can quickly adjust the length to suit them- third (and what you'll likely care the most about) this chain knot gives me a safe place- back from the head that WILL strike the ground- to attach glow and flow lights for fire free practice and performance.
EDITED_BY: snappdragon (1334958818)
EDIT_REASON: added content

imnotanewbSILVER Member
newby meteor, staff and poi spinner.
2 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
i guess im using a cross between a hammer and meteor, as my meteor is 6'6'' between heads, (im new to it, so im finding something that works well for me.

Trybal WolfSILVER Member
Wolf Furry
517 posts
Location: Earth, USA


Posted:
Awesome, however somewhat limited.

I'd rather die on paws, than live on feet.



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