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IckySheebs
IckySheebs

sleepy beast
Location: Memphis, TN
Member Since: 12th Mar 2011
Total posts: 11
Posted:Okay so basically several friends and myself were chillin a few nights ago, and someone brought up the concept of helium poi. They were trying to say that it would be possible to reverse the physics of the poi with some lighter-than-air gas. We argued for a while, and came to the conclusion that weighting the poi heads without losing bouyancy would be an issue. I thought I'd at least ask around and see if anyone thinks there's a plausible way to do this, or if I should just go tell my stoner friends they might be legally retarded.

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JuggleSean
Ooops
Location: EARTH
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2009
Total posts: 116
Posted:Hmm, surely Newtonian physics could provide a reasonable answer, in theory I guess. Note that my physics background is only four courses in college, but Newtons second law of motion comes to mind. F=ma. When I think of the forces acting on regular poi vs. helium poi would be this.

F(regular poi, downward force) = M(mass of poi) * G(acceleration of gravity, approx. -9.8 (m/s)^2)

in this over simplified example, the only force on the regular poi will be gravity.

F(helium poi, downward force) = M(mass of poi) * G(acceleration of gravity, approx. -9.8 (m/s)^2)

Only here, we should calculate M = (Density of Helium * Volume)

Therefore F(helium poi, downward force) = (Density of Helium * Volume)* G(acceleration of gravity, approx. -9.8 (m/s)^2)

Now we have to think about the upward force of the helium poi, which would be the buoyancy force you mentioned.

F(helium poi, upward force) = (Density of Air * Volume) * G

Find the sum of the forces acting on the helium poi.

With some experimenting, one could find an equal but opposite force for the regular poi vs helium poi.

I am not sure if this makes sense, or would work. Certainly there would be many other variables and forces at work that would need to be considered. Perhaps this is a start though? One year of college physics is just enough to get you into trouble.

Groovy idea, things like this make my head hurt.


Groovy

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meshunderlay
meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2008
Total posts: 612
Posted:The following response has no formulas in it, nor do I use proper technical/scientific words.

I don't see this being possible. If the poi is light enough for the helium to have a good effect on the poi (such as a baloon), spinning it would be awkward because of... well... Upwards drag? heh
Then, if the poi was heavy enough for this not to be an issue, the helium probably wouldn't have much of an effect at all, like putting helium inside a hollow anvil.


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JuggleSean
Ooops
Location: EARTH
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2009
Total posts: 116
Posted:I am dreaming of spinning or juggling on the Moon now. I see all object manipulation arts as a play on/with gravity. Changing the acceleration of gravity would throw everything off. I bet I could finally juggle some numbers if I made it to the Moon. Or spinning in zero gravity, even crazier thought. What if you could fill a poi up with enough helium (or even lighter gas) to let it float with no other forces acting on it but what you apply. I am totally spaced out now...

Groovy

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IckySheebs
IckySheebs

sleepy beast
Location: Memphis, TN
Member Since: 12th Mar 2011
Total posts: 11
Posted:Yup, all our thoughts exactly. not sure about all that equation whatnot, but im willing to take your word for it that it likely wouldnt work. I was really just wondering if anyone else had thought about anything of this nature before... the dynamics of it would be crazy fun though... guess it'll just have to stay in my dreams. At least til I have the opportunity to spin on the moon. In which case, I'd totally take you with me, OhioSean! Thanks yall!

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:It tends to stay up. Or at least normal helium ballons do. Also insane drag, so rubbish to spin.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Paddington Bear
member

Member Since: 19th Jan 2010
Total posts: 118
Posted:by all means try it just for the LOVE of god do not mistake it for your fire kit!

fire is alive. it lives and breathes. it consumes and destroys. but we control it and live with it, we are fire dancers

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Analemma
Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA
Member Since: 22nd May 2003
Total posts: 384
Posted:My 2 cents from an experiment:
2 Helium Balloons on strings and 2 metal nuts around the strings.

The Balloons themselves dont have enough mass to be swung like Poi. With heavy Nuts or washers it is possible to swing them. It is still quite different to "normal" Poi due to the high air resistance of the Balloons - but fun nonetheless.
With some practice it is possible to upward stall the Balloons in a way that the Nuts slide down the string and you can catch them in the hands - leaving the Balloons afloat.

Hope that gives some ideas

All the best and good luck

Andreas

have fun - definitely worth experimenting with


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:Nice Andy. Not considered weighting them properly....

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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IckySheebs
IckySheebs

sleepy beast
Location: Memphis, TN
Member Since: 12th Mar 2011
Total posts: 11
Posted:Dig that, Analemma! hadn't thought of having a sliding weight on there.... i will definitely be trying this when i get off work (in 7 f*cking hours).

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Tide
Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...
Member Since: 17th Jun 2009
Total posts: 111
Posted:Originally Posted By: Paddington Bearby all means try it just for the LOVE of god do not mistake it for your fire kit!

Helium physically cannot combust. At all. It is one of the least, if not the least, reactive elements in the universe.

EDITED_BY: Tide (1300953127)


This statement is false...?

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Paddington Bear
member

Member Since: 19th Jan 2010
Total posts: 118
Posted:damn damn damn. blame my girlfriend, she had me confusing it with hydrogen. sad thing is i knew that. clearly going to pass my a level chemistry :L

fire is alive. it lives and breathes. it consumes and destroys. but we control it and live with it, we are fire dancers

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Combat Moses
Combat Moses

Revrend
Location: South Lake Tahoe, California
Member Since: 1st Jul 2009
Total posts: 27
Posted:well I do not see Helium poi working but juggling maybe you could fill up balloons in many colors have some air mixed in so they drift up at a reasonable pace and have a circle around you that you mix the colors up at high speeds....I don't know much about poi...

Only boring people get bored.- James Walton

You can only get bored if you don't know how to live.-His son

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Analemma
Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA
Member Since: 22nd May 2003
Total posts: 384
Posted:No videos so far?!? Man.... such a nice thing and no visual proof around here wink
Anyone else played with it.
And actually Hydrogen should work much better - only bummer they dont sell it at CVS or the 99c Store . . . but they do sell Helium . . .


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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