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Forums > Technical Discussion > Why do my fire poi keep breaking???
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Posted:Damn it.
Okay, I received my first set of chains this past Christmas. Pro-series twisted oval chain link, No. 10 swivels, 2.5 Monkey fist heads from HOP. By Jan 15, 1 chain broken. By Jan 20 (thanks to the courtesy of HOP customer support) I had a new set of chains (exactly what I had before) By Feb 10th.. I had broken one of my new chains.. so I took one of my old and one of my new and have been using those together since. This past weekend right before a group burn, and before my soak, my bottom swivel breaks right at the bottom link where the poi head connects. WHY MAN? WHY???
I don't think I'm abusive with my poi, I take very good care of them and never leave them in humidity. I do use them every day and I do love hyperloops and orbitals... all together I have about 30 burns under my belt. BUT, even if I was super rough on them.. I would imagine that they would last longer than 2 MONTHS without breaking. Does anyone else have trouble with breaking chains, swivels, etc?? What is the general life expectancy of a set of pro-series chains? Should I switch to ball(Eww.)? Any other advice?
I'm ordering an entirely new set today and I'm going to keep a very very watchful eye on them. Here are some pictures. I don't have any of the swivel yet.
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
Thank you for any help or feedback!!
EDITED_BY: Psyentist (1298945134)
Okay, I received my first set of chains this past Christmas. Pro-series twisted oval chain link, No. 10 swivels, 2.5 Monkey fist heads from HOP. By Jan 15, 1 chain broken. By Jan 20 (thanks to the courtesy of HOP customer support) I had a new set of chains (exactly what I had before) By Feb 10th.. I had broken one of my new chains.. so I took one of my old and one of my new and have been using those together since. This past weekend right before a group burn, and before my soak, my bottom swivel breaks right at the bottom link where the poi head connects. WHY MAN? WHY???
I don't think I'm abusive with my poi, I take very good care of them and never leave them in humidity. I do use them every day and I do love hyperloops and orbitals... all together I have about 30 burns under my belt. BUT, even if I was super rough on them.. I would imagine that they would last longer than 2 MONTHS without breaking. Does anyone else have trouble with breaking chains, swivels, etc?? What is the general life expectancy of a set of pro-series chains? Should I switch to ball(Eww.)? Any other advice?
I'm ordering an entirely new set today and I'm going to keep a very very watchful eye on them. Here are some pictures. I don't have any of the swivel yet.
Non-Https Image Link
Non-Https Image Link
Thank you for any help or feedback!!
EDITED_BY: Psyentist (1298945134)
Brainchild of the 60's
By-product of the 90's
Pioneer of the unforeseen future
SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009
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All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Total posts: 2280
GOLD Member since Oct 2009
All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Balls would break even easier. I don't know why that could've happened o0 That's like the sturdiest chain set I know of. I use heavy heads and do a lot of orbitals and practice with them and it's only 2mm chain. What could've happened is beyond me 
Unless maybe you live by the ocean because the saltiness of the area would weaken the metal to a degree. The best thing I could suggest would be to get some of their stainless steel chain instead of the coated steel. Not only is it stronger, but it's much more resistant to corrosion and I've also sene stainless steel chain recommended for use by the coast for that reason.
That right there is the only thing I can think of.
Unless maybe you live by the ocean because the saltiness of the area would weaken the metal to a degree. The best thing I could suggest would be to get some of their stainless steel chain instead of the coated steel. Not only is it stronger, but it's much more resistant to corrosion and I've also sene stainless steel chain recommended for use by the coast for that reason.That right there is the only thing I can think of.
The only luck is bad luck.
Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass 
Posted:Thanks for posting
Very weird. Tom from Customer Support will email you and you can send more details/photos to support(at)homeofpoi(dot)com
Lets see if any one else has had this problem.
Very weird. Tom from Customer Support will email you and you can send more details/photos to support(at)homeofpoi(dot)com
Lets see if any one else has had this problem.
May your balls always burn
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Posted:i've been using that chain for ages and i spin fire a LOT (i busk so heavy usage) and never had any problems with any of my tools, very strange that you should suffer 2 hardware failures in this timeframe though, puzzling...
even chuck norris can't pin you down if your on fire
DeletePosted:**UPDATE**
I want to make it clear that I think HOP makes and sells some of the highest quality fire tools available online. Other than these issues, I have had excellent customer support and I always get quality equipment in a timely fashion. I am kind of puzzled to say the least and the purpose of this thread is mainly to resolve the issue (if there even is one) or to set an example for other spinners on what not to do.
Here is the most recent equipment failure as previously described, the bottom link at the bottom swivel.
Non-Https Image Link
I want to make it clear that I think HOP makes and sells some of the highest quality fire tools available online. Other than these issues, I have had excellent customer support and I always get quality equipment in a timely fashion. I am kind of puzzled to say the least and the purpose of this thread is mainly to resolve the issue (if there even is one) or to set an example for other spinners on what not to do.
Here is the most recent equipment failure as previously described, the bottom link at the bottom swivel.
Non-Https Image Link
Brainchild of the 60's
By-product of the 90's
Pioneer of the unforeseen future
Posted:v.v. strange. My first poi were from HOP (through a reseller) and I had them for a year and there was no problems. And I treated them pretty badly.
We use ball chain now and live near the beack and I haven't seen any rust or other damage on them. Never heard of someone breaking chains before...
What fuel do you use?
EDITED_BY: natasqi (1298966586)
We use ball chain now and live near the beack and I haven't seen any rust or other damage on them. Never heard of someone breaking chains before...
What fuel do you use?
EDITED_BY: natasqi (1298966586)
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Posted:I have always used Coleman Fuel white gas. I understand this stuff burns pretty hot comparatively, but I love how clean it burns. And the amount of light it puts out really ices a performance. After a burn I usually touch my bottom quicklink to see how hot it is and if I should wait until my next burn, I can usually go twice within a few minutes before it's hot to the touch. But I have only burned like 30-35 times, so again.. that seems unusual. I don't have access to any Kleen-heat or I suppose I would use that. A fellow spinner I know uses Kerosene and that is simply the worst.
Brainchild of the 60's
By-product of the 90's
Pioneer of the unforeseen future
Posted:well this is strange one of my friends has a set of fire poi from here that have been burned over 90+ times and he does orbitals fairly often even when they are not lit and the wicks arent even cathedrals anymore they are more rounded like spheres so this is kinda strange
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus
Posted:that would be my worst nightmare during a fireshow.. Not only could I risk harming someone badly, but I could risk burning a hotel or bar to the ground... I always trusted my chains but maybe I should be more wary. Especially in Central America the only fuel you can find is Gasoline, it would be a disaster.
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SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009
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All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Total posts: 2280
GOLD Member since Oct 2009
All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Total posts: 2280
Posted:I can only suggest buying a stainless steel chain if you have this problem.
The only luck is bad luck.
Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass
Posted:SoD - Any suggestions on where to buy S/S chain that has twisted links?? I would like to still be able to do wraps without tearing skin. I want something that wont be impossible to untangle and isn't ridiculous heavy.
To all - BTW, I was at the local park yesterday, did 2 burns. Went for my third soak and noticed a 2 links about halfway up on my current chains were starting to split at the welded seam. They aren't broken (yet) but I can see where the weld is beginning to fail. (I can post pics if necessary) This is just crazy. I have completely removed orbitals from practice and routine since I posted this thread. My new set of Pro Series will be here any day... if this set doesn't last me 6 months.. I'm going for the most heavy duty set I can find, suggestions are welcome. Thank you.
To all - BTW, I was at the local park yesterday, did 2 burns. Went for my third soak and noticed a 2 links about halfway up on my current chains were starting to split at the welded seam. They aren't broken (yet) but I can see where the weld is beginning to fail. (I can post pics if necessary) This is just crazy. I have completely removed orbitals from practice and routine since I posted this thread. My new set of Pro Series will be here any day... if this set doesn't last me 6 months.. I'm going for the most heavy duty set I can find, suggestions are welcome. Thank you.
Brainchild of the 60's
By-product of the 90's
Pioneer of the unforeseen future
SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009
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All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Total posts: 2280
GOLD Member since Oct 2009
All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Total posts: 2280
Posted:FireMecca has their 2mm chain is very very nice. I use with pretty damn heavy heads and orbitals are no problem, not even really scratching the chain. HoP also sells their chain is stainless.
http://www.firemecca.com/p-922-twist-link-chain-stainless-steel-20-mm.aspx
br>http://www.homeofpoi.com/shop/productDetails/Length-of-24mm-Stainless-Steel-Welded-Oval-Twist-Chain
Firemecca's is a lot lighter, thinner, narrower. IMO it's the best chain.
http://www.firemecca.com/p-922-twist-link-chain-stainless-steel-20-mm.aspx
br>http://www.homeofpoi.com/shop/productDetails/Length-of-24mm-Stainless-Steel-Welded-Oval-Twist-Chain
Firemecca's is a lot lighter, thinner, narrower. IMO it's the best chain.
The only luck is bad luck.
Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass
Posted:Thanks for the linkys mate.
I was under the false impression that the twisted chain link on the Pro-Series was stainless. I guess I just assumed they were, and clearly made an ass of myself by breaking my chains 4 times; live and learn I guess.
I see that the Fire Mecca chains use a split ring to swivel to quicklink connection. In your opinion from experience, are the split rings of comparable size and durablity of the welded link to swivel system on the HOP set?? I'm going to buy a length of both kinds of chain to test them out.. but I figured I would ask first. Thanks!
I was under the false impression that the twisted chain link on the Pro-Series was stainless. I guess I just assumed they were, and clearly made an ass of myself by breaking my chains 4 times; live and learn I guess.
I see that the Fire Mecca chains use a split ring to swivel to quicklink connection. In your opinion from experience, are the split rings of comparable size and durablity of the welded link to swivel system on the HOP set?? I'm going to buy a length of both kinds of chain to test them out.. but I figured I would ask first. Thanks!
Brainchild of the 60's
By-product of the 90's
Pioneer of the unforeseen future
SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009
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All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Total posts: 2280
GOLD Member since Oct 2009
All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Total posts: 2280
Posted:From my experience with the split rings. I was cautious about them at first. But I use long chains, heavy heads, plenty of orbitals, stalls and stuff, and neither have I or anyone else I know had the slightest bend, break, noticeable weakening, or opening of one of their split rings. They're a real pain in the ass to get 
on them, especially if it's bigger than 2mm unless you have split ring pliers (mine went poof, now I use a little cheap swiss army knife). I really like them I feel a lot more comfortable with those on the end of my chain holding on a swivel than I do a stainless steel quicklink because I've had those of all kind bend open, or just unscrew themselves somehow after a massive tightening. Pretty much FireMecca's hardware has my thumbs up!
on them, especially if it's bigger than 2mm unless you have split ring pliers (mine went poof, now I use a little cheap swiss army knife). I really like them I feel a lot more comfortable with those on the end of my chain holding on a swivel than I do a stainless steel quicklink because I've had those of all kind bend open, or just unscrew themselves somehow after a massive tightening. Pretty much FireMecca's hardware has my thumbs up!The only luck is bad luck.
Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass
Posted:That swivel pic looks like it is damage from heat. I'd suggest a lower temp burning fuel on that one. Both the chain breaks look like they are at the weld. It is possible to have had a weak link, two though, crazy.
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SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009
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All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Total posts: 2280
GOLD Member since Oct 2009
All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Total posts: 2280
Posted:You could always try a different swivel. I didn't think about the swivel. you could always try FireMecca's swivels. A bit more expensive but worth a try. I personally like them better on my handles cause they're a little smaller and a more comfortable shape to grip on my ball handles.
The only luck is bad luck.
Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass
TinklePants
GOLD Member since Jul 2005
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Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, Unit...
Total posts: 4217
GOLD Member since Jul 2005
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, Unit...
Total posts: 4217
Posted:I agree with Calibud, it's probably heat damage from using high temperature burning fuels. My guess is that the much higher temperature followed by cooling is making the metal brittle, especially at the joins.
The internal structure of steel will change if high enough temperatures are reached, weakening bonds and it can become brittle, especially if it is cooled too quickly.
I only ever use the heavy duty stainless steel chain with my monkey fists. I do use ball chain with my muras though, and they're still going strong after 30+ uses since 2005! And I only ever use parrafin as a fuel, it is less likely to ignite due to the high flash point and the soot, well, it's all part of the fun!
Have you considered downgrading your poi heads to cathedrals or mura heads with this chain? It maybe, due to the high heat and cooling that the metal cannot take the stress of swinging the monkey fists.
I know from experience that the 65mm monkeys get really heavy when spun for over 7 mins (that's how long mine burn for!) and maybe downgrading the burn-time of the fire head, i.e. choosing caths or muras, may cause less wear and tear on your chains. Yes it will possibly shorten your spin time but may lengthen the life of your chains. Also, ease up on any moves that cause your chains to come into contact with each other, like hyperloops, etc.
Another suggestion would be to buy multiple pairs of the same poi, especially if you are a performer or if you prefer close to no wait time in between burns, then each set can have a longer rest period between burn times.
The internal structure of steel will change if high enough temperatures are reached, weakening bonds and it can become brittle, especially if it is cooled too quickly.
I only ever use the heavy duty stainless steel chain with my monkey fists. I do use ball chain with my muras though, and they're still going strong after 30+ uses since 2005! And I only ever use parrafin as a fuel, it is less likely to ignite due to the high flash point and the soot, well, it's all part of the fun!
Have you considered downgrading your poi heads to cathedrals or mura heads with this chain? It maybe, due to the high heat and cooling that the metal cannot take the stress of swinging the monkey fists.
I know from experience that the 65mm monkeys get really heavy when spun for over 7 mins (that's how long mine burn for!) and maybe downgrading the burn-time of the fire head, i.e. choosing caths or muras, may cause less wear and tear on your chains. Yes it will possibly shorten your spin time but may lengthen the life of your chains. Also, ease up on any moves that cause your chains to come into contact with each other, like hyperloops, etc.
Another suggestion would be to buy multiple pairs of the same poi, especially if you are a performer or if you prefer close to no wait time in between burns, then each set can have a longer rest period between burn times.
Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible
DeleteRives
GOLD Member since Jun 2009
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Nothing but circles and smiles...
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Total posts: 118
GOLD Member since Jun 2009
Nothing but circles and smiles...
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Total posts: 118
Posted:i have a few pairs of these chains, that i have been using for a very long time. I use heavy heads that burn very how, with Coleman camp fuel(white gas). My oldest set of chains (hop pro series just like these) has easily more then 200 burns. I have never seen failure like that in chains.
-where do you keep your poi when you aren't burning them?
-what do you do with your poi, right after your finished burning them?
-how do you extinguish your poi at the end of a burn?
-where do you keep your poi when you aren't burning them?
-what do you do with your poi, right after your finished burning them?
-how do you extinguish your poi at the end of a burn?
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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007
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Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Total posts: 2418
SILVER Member since Aug 2007
Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Total posts: 2418
Posted:Did QuestH say he was burning petrol?! Thats a BIG no no. Petrol isn't flammable, its explosive!
Posted:Fire Poi Maintenance Instructions
These instructions discuss how to maintain your fire poi.
Storage
When not in use, it is important to keep your fire poi away in a dry location. Water, especially salty water, may corrode some components over time, and degrade the quality of leather handles. Keep fire poi or fire poi heads in a container that will keep oil and soot from leaving the container. Paint cans, ammo cans, and similar containers are common ways of keeping poi protected from water, and from oil and soot from getting other things dirty.
Basic Maintenance
Handles
Keep leather handles away from water. Regular use is enough to keep the leather supple. Replace if dry, cracked, or split.
Quicklinks
Quicklinks should be tightened by hand before (and in between) any use with fire. Do not tighten with hand tools. Replace if rusted, if threads are damaged, or if nut is too loose.
Chain
Inspect ball chain for rust or widening balls. Inspect link chain for breaks in welds. Replace in case of rust or broken welds. Ball chain is used for chain wraps and hyperloops at your own risk.
Wicks
Wicks will degrade over time due to burning, and to some degree from simple physical abuse frequently associated with using fire poi as practice poi. Inspect the wicks for frays, and trim them. Apply white glue to stiffen areas affect by fraying and to reduce the susceptibility to fraying. Trim any wick sections that are "hanging by a thread" to reduce the chance of debris flying from your fire poi while spinning. Replace if wick is no longer secure
These instructions discuss how to maintain your fire poi.
Storage
When not in use, it is important to keep your fire poi away in a dry location. Water, especially salty water, may corrode some components over time, and degrade the quality of leather handles. Keep fire poi or fire poi heads in a container that will keep oil and soot from leaving the container. Paint cans, ammo cans, and similar containers are common ways of keeping poi protected from water, and from oil and soot from getting other things dirty.
Basic Maintenance
Handles
Keep leather handles away from water. Regular use is enough to keep the leather supple. Replace if dry, cracked, or split.
Quicklinks
Quicklinks should be tightened by hand before (and in between) any use with fire. Do not tighten with hand tools. Replace if rusted, if threads are damaged, or if nut is too loose.
Chain
Inspect ball chain for rust or widening balls. Inspect link chain for breaks in welds. Replace in case of rust or broken welds. Ball chain is used for chain wraps and hyperloops at your own risk.
Wicks
Wicks will degrade over time due to burning, and to some degree from simple physical abuse frequently associated with using fire poi as practice poi. Inspect the wicks for frays, and trim them. Apply white glue to stiffen areas affect by fraying and to reduce the susceptibility to fraying. Trim any wick sections that are "hanging by a thread" to reduce the chance of debris flying from your fire poi while spinning. Replace if wick is no longer secure
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Posted:
I have always used marine grade 2.5mm stainless long oval link (not twisted) in my designs precisely to avoid the problems you seem to be having, also unless a client specifically requests swivels I avoid swivels as these seem to me to be a regular point of failure. I don't like split rings at the hot end and prefer to secure directly through the tube to the chain, although I have not had any bad experiences with high quality split rings myself. If you really have to use twisted chain then as previously posted then use stainless.
I have always used marine grade 2.5mm stainless long oval link (not twisted) in my designs precisely to avoid the problems you seem to be having, also unless a client specifically requests swivels I avoid swivels as these seem to me to be a regular point of failure. I don't like split rings at the hot end and prefer to secure directly through the tube to the chain, although I have not had any bad experiences with high quality split rings myself. If you really have to use twisted chain then as previously posted then use stainless.
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