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Forums > Social Discussion > (for people who believe in karma)

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poismylove


poismylove

poi addict
Location: cali

Total posts: 196
Posted:Ok, so you supposedly get good karma by doing good deeds/being a good person. But do you think if you do a good deed, but you are only doing that deed to get good karma, would the selfishness behind the good deed negate the good karma?

to spin or not to spin, that is the question.

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meshunderlay
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

meshunderlay

Juggler/Spinner
Location: Hicksville, New York, USA

Total posts: 612
Posted:Yes, I think it would.
Also, I think this is why the prospect of religions + heaven/paradise/whatever is awkward....
If you are religious because you beleive that doing good will net you a spot in a good afterlife then aren't you doing it for the wrong reason?
Sorry for mentioning religion, normally I try not to, I know what kinds of discussions it can cause... =)


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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:I beleive in materialistic karma

I mean not in a spititual or religious sense but I beleive you get out of things what you put in.

You should do good not because its the good thing to do, but because you are good.

I agree that it would negate it, you should do good for the sake of doing good, and have faith that the consequences will be good ones


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:It won't "negate the good karma" but it is "clever selfishness"... the good deed is not lost only because you do it for yourself.

The selfish intent behind the action will only delay the "return". The sugar is not lost, only you forgot to stir the tea wink Those with an active mind will always think of the possible outcomes of an action - either ahead, or just after. It is hard NOT to think of a "return" - it's human nature.

As I see it, it's not about forcing yourself to "do good" - but about "doing the right thing", the appropriate action in the current moment.

WA put it in right words but I would take it a step further: it is not about your actions, it is about your character. "Good deeds" are not always the right thing to do, it always depends on the circumstances. But by practicing kindness you will be working on your character, become the action and at some stage become embodied kindness.

Would be interesting to know why you are asking the question wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:The teachings around Karma as far as I understand them is that a lot of the value in the karma is lost if you are doing the deeds solely to gain karma.

There is still benefit in it because it will eventually lead you to do good deeds out of compulsion, out of habit.


hug

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poismylove


poismylove

poi addict
Location: cali

Total posts: 196
Posted:I was asking because I was having one of those moments when im talking to myself in my head, and came across the subject of karma and I got stumped on that question.

And yes its definitely about doing the right thing, not making youself do good. The hard part for me is always finding whats right and whats wrong... >.< but i guess that comes down to what an individual defines right and wrong as, and the situation its being applied too.


to spin or not to spin, that is the question.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:We are talking about Karma as in "the law of (non)action" in connection to "what goes around comes around", are we?

I was writing three times looong stories about Karma... it would have been the logical thing to press "Submit", but instead I deleted it.

I wrote all this instead of going to the gym, where I wanted to work out because I ate meat today... it would have been the right thing.

It seems beyond reason, but it definitely is Karma.

Good night

[a fool]


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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poismylove


poismylove

poi addict
Location: cali

Total posts: 196
Posted:you probably should have went to the gym... sorry it kept you from doing that. im done thinking about this, keeps tieing my brain in knots.

to spin or not to spin, that is the question.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:okay, new day - new energy. please don't feel sorry, because it's my own responsibility smile

In Hinduism (which harbors the origins of "Karma") it is also believed that the soul is getting reborn again and again and again - due to the effects of Karma. Because the Karmic bond is tying the soul to the wheel of reincarnation.

Meaning that we are here to live up to the actions we committed in the past. Meaning that there is a karmic bond between us and the other (human) beings around us... (sidenote: there is a thread asking about "who am I?" which would partly merge)

For example: if a thief steals from me, it means that I stole from him in a previous life. If no karmic bond exists between the two of us, the thief would not be able to access my house, in fact he would not even find the way to the block I live in.

Therefore if someone steals from me, I am repaying bad karma in the same way as if someone helps me, they are repaying my good karma.

Karma is like having memories (from a past life). If you did a lot of good stuff in a previous life, you will have 'good memories' - if you did a lot of bad stuff it will be the opposite. Of course everybody is happy to cash in good karma and quite unwilling to balance the bad. But it is necessary to balance the entire account. Thus it is also desirable to live a long life, so we can repay as much bad karma as possible in one go. Once we repaid all karma - good or bad - we will not have to be reborn again (on this planet at least).

This said: if I am "doing good" with the intent of creating good karma and expecting returns of this investment, I am creating more karmic bonds. But if I am "doing good" with the intent of paying back my karmic debts, I am untying my soul from these bonds.

"Doing good" is "doing the 'right' thing". The right thing usually is what comes up first. The chit chat after that instant usually is the mind chatter, questioning the intuition. One needs to gain clarity of thoughts and control of the mind in order to do the "right thing" (aka. the appropriate action in the very instant).

To achieve clarity one needs to practice in one of the infinite forms of meditation and strive for a higher purpose, to make yourself an instrument of the universe in order to fulfill the will of the universe/god/the flying spaghetti monster/ whatever suits your picture.

Of course, if someone killed in a previous life, the victim would have the right to kill them in this life. But this will again tie them back to the wheel of karma, of cause and effect, of rebirth (they might and most likely will receive punishment, unless universe totally agrees that this action was the right thing to do). Even if they do not receive punishment still they will suffer from mental disorder. Thus one could ask the universe/ god.... to balance past karma without violence or committing a crime. Because killing and getting killed, stealing and getting ripped off is an endless cycle, originating way back in time.

In order to escape this endless cycle we should aim to live a life without violence, practice humility and devotion, show gratitude for what we receive. Life on planet earth unfortunately is based upon one form of life consuming another... even if you're a veg, your existence is based upon transforming another existence and using its energy to sustain your body.

As it has been taught by aboriginal tribes, it is not the point of killing but pointless killing of animals or plants that devastate the planet. A (human) being, living a humble life will not live a destructive life, but a life in harmony with its surroundings.

Meditation, practicing awareness will be a guide to recognize one's nature and purpose, it will ultimately be the tool of untying the bonds of karma.

In fact this is only what I am drawing from the informations universe flushed into my life. I too have a lot of troubles accepting slaps in the face and elaborating what "good" or "the right actions" actually are. I am omnivore, I don't engage in much charity and I'm spending far too much time behind the screen.

But I hope that this post at least was able to stimulate some of your own thinking and helps to recover your own truth.

So long.

heart and ubbidea


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:oh - and not going to the gym last night, made me wake up thrice, gave me intense dreams of trouble (working through corrupt Indian/Pakistani police force and conmen) and constipation... so I am "suffering" the consequences of my own actions wink my bad, if I really wanted to go I would have.

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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willworkforfoodjnr
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

willworkforfoodjnr

Hunting robot foxes
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, ...

Total posts: 1046
Posted:I may be totally alone in this but I believe in karma while accepting that it does not exist. This is going to be difficult to explain...

I'm non religious/spiritual. I don't think I have a soul, or that there is any purpose to the universe. Science is the reason and there is no point. Thats a separate discussion but provides background.

I believe in karma though as a social principle. As WoodlandApple said above "I believe you get out of things what you put in". I want to be a 'good person' (although your definition may vary) and the best way to achieve that is through good deeds(karma). So good karma lifts my soul (yes I know I said above I don't believe in em!) and when I screw up I notice the bad things that happen to me and accept them as penance.

In practice I know that these too ways of looking at life are at odds with each other and yet generally I don't think about it like that except when discussions like this come up. I guess its a consciously applied version of DoubleThink in action!

Hmm reading that back it doesn't explain it quite as well as I hoped. Ah well *submit*


Working hard to be a wandering hippie layabout. Ten years down, five to go!

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poismylove


poismylove

poi addict
Location: cali

Total posts: 196
Posted:haha im gonna print that out so that when ever i am confused about karma i can take it and read it. thanks. and sounds like you have some interesting dreams. i always feel like my dreams test me. but thats a whole other topic haha. offtopic

but yeah, thanks for all the responses this has definitely added too my info on karma and i will be doing a bunch of thinking about it.


to spin or not to spin, that is the question.

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polarity
SILVER Member since May 2005

polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet, United Ki...

Total posts: 1228
Posted:I don't think you can truly understand karma unless you put it into the context of a lot of different religions.

eg. the Old Testament has 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth' while the New Testament has 'Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you'.

Or in really simple terms 'Monkey see, monkey do'.


Karma isn't even anything particularly spiritual, it's just cause and effect, and is very mundane. If person A does something to person B, then person B has been shown what person A thinks it is acceptable to do to another person, and they are then given the freedom to reciprocate.

If person B happened to be a child with no previous experience, then they might not have even concieved that the action was possible, until it was done to them (or they had seen it being done to another person), making them a conduit in perpetuating the action.

It works whether the action is a positive or negative one, and it only becomes harder to notice how it works in society, because it's so big, and happening between so many different people at once.



I consider doing anything good to be extremely selfish, and in no bad way, because of my beliefs.

1. In the beginning was nothing.

2. It exploded and created everything.

3. 'God' is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.

What is this 'God', if not an infinite nothingness? It knows everything, is everywhere, and could become anything else. Infinite nothing, is infinite potential, and we can see the effects of a difference in potential in a bolt of lightning ('the power of the gods').

The big bang happened, and what was 'God' as one mind, became 'God' as many minds, so 'God' is the universe to me, and that part of 'God' which we'd consider consciousness, is part of all of us. 'God' is omnipresent through our being, omniscient through our minds, and omnipotent through our actions.

I am 'God', and so is everyone else. Being nice to them may well be selfish because of that, but harming them would be harming myself.

If I am 'God', what do I want to experience, where do I want to go, and what do I want to do?

EDITED_BY: polarity (1296221883)


You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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Calibud
GOLD Member since Nov 2010

Calibud

φωτιά
Location: St. Louis , USA

Total posts: 49
Posted:I base my belief in Karma more along the lines of every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When you begin to predict the outcomes of these reactions you can make the choice of which route you would take. For there are no selfless acts, only acts of good and bad.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Originally Posted By: CaliFor there are no selfless acts, only acts of good and bad.

and who is to judge upon the distinction? wink

I like cookies - cookies = good
cookies contain lots of sugar - sugar = not so good
So is eating cookies good, or is it bad?

On a more straightforward note:

Generating certain political climate = good for some nations
generating social unrest and igniting civil war = not so good for other countries

My point: dividing the world of action in two extremes is like calling one god "Allah" and the other "Jahwe" - same god, different name. The universe doesn't care for "good" or "bad"...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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MusicalTNT
SILVER Member since Feb 2011

MusicalTNT

Womp Womp Womp
Location: Florida, USA

Total posts: 14
Posted:Cookies defy all attempt to logic out their good and bad. Much like kitties.

More on topic. "good" and "bad" only have a meaning if you put them relative to something else. For convenience, we usually use our desires.

Do I want to have a tasty treat? If so, a cookie is "good" for this purpose.

Do I want to lose weight? A cookie is "bad" for this purpose.

If you want both, then you have to weigh out the consequences of both actions and make a decision. Good/bad for a single action can vary over a timeline.


~I am makes muzaks~

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Calibud
GOLD Member since Nov 2010

Calibud

φωτιά
Location: St. Louis , USA

Total posts: 49
Posted:words are only what you make of them..

in the sense of good and bad... well there is an infinite amount of "if then" paths until you determine a well rounded definition.. like everything in life, it is a perpetual cycle, with beginning, and one day end.


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1020benny


1020benny

Southern Spinner
Location: DFW, TEXAS

Total posts: 13

aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:I have come across some references to "aquiring merit" in a karmic context, which is slightly what you are talking about: doing a good deed means that you aquire merit. Some people take this to the logical extreme and keep track of how much merit they have aquired.

They are still doing good though.

Slightly tangential, but still related to karma:
As I understand it, in Buddhism, *any* action leads to gathering of karma, and the goal is to minimise it. This can be done by meditation and that sort of thing? Or am I reading it wrong?


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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1020benny


1020benny

Southern Spinner
Location: DFW, TEXAS

Total posts: 13
Posted:OP: If you are thinking, 'if I do this good thing, I will get good in return [from energies, the earth, w/e, etc.]'. Why not do it?

If you're plotting something, however, to benefit you or 'get something out of it'- I would say that is evil, or negative energy/karma.

Edit: When you're contemplating something in your head, you're essentially praying. Whether you listen to the good or evil- determines your Karma

EDITED_BY: 1020benny (1297190128)


-I'm so Psily ::))

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