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Forums > Technical Discussion > UltraPoi - Super Bright LED Sock Poi

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*UltraPoi*
*UltraPoi*

Ultrapoi.com
Location: Texas, USA
Member Since: 12th Feb 2007
Total posts: 49
Posted:Why Hello everyone in the Home of Poi world!!!

HOP has been my home base for all my poi needs since I purchased my first pair here back in 2006 and began watching tutorials on this great website. Well in the last few months I have ventured out into the realm of creating custom LED toys of many sorts and it has began building into quite a collection. Now after so much research and prototyping we have come on final designs for a couple professional LED toys. In our arsenal we have of course our power house the ultra poi(Sock POI w/ 3 watt RGB LEDs with over 30 custom modes), the ultra hoop (30 RGB LEDs with over 30 custom modes), the ultra show stoppers (long POI w/ 30 RGB LEDs with over 30 custom modes), Ultra Pixel Poi( RGB LED Displaying pixel image modes) and a few other awesome toys to come as well. From all the reading Ive done on these forums over the years I haves seen many attempt at the task of programming custom RGB LED toys and only few have made it, so im sure many fellow spinners can appreciate the work that has been done here and may want to follow the progress of Ultrapoi.com. We are in the final manufacturing stages for many of professional toys that will be available very soon. Their are also a number of sweet videos on our website and on youtube to get a nice preview. Happy Spinning everyone!!! Stevo Check out our website And Hit us on FaceBook



EDITED_BY: *UltraPoi* (1408514857)


<br />Ultra Poi, LLC<br />Member

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happyinmotion
newbie

Member Since: 7th May 2007
Total posts: 42
Posted:Originally Posted By: RabbitEatsMoonTwo things I just found immediately after submitting my last post:-

1) http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetai...51234A&KC=A
br>
Now I don't understand patents to be honest, but here's one that seems to pretty much own this whole (yet to exist) market...

That patent seems pretty comprehensive but I hope it's not going to hold progress towards ever-shinier LED toys. For example, figure 7 describes pretty much the entire software architecture that I used for the Mitochondrion (my microcontroller-driven RGB LED glowstaff). I just wrote the software that way last year, way before I knew of this patent, coz I thought it was obvious to do it that way. Obviousness is a legally-valid defense against a patent. Then again, I'm not a patent lawyer.

I guess we won't know how the patent owners want to treat this patent until someone makes a product that potentially infringes the patent, the owners sue, it ends up in court and the only people who are happy are the lawyers. Does anyone know the owners of the patent (Oliver Mylius, Alix Wilding) and what their plans for the patent are?


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polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1228
Posted:I think it being common knowledge among the more tech savvy members of the juggling community, as to how to make exactly what they describe, a whole 2 years prior to the patent being filed, is more than enough reason that the patent isn't valid.

In fact the two who filed that patent could be guilty of patent fraud, due to there being 'prior art' right here on this very site, and they could quite conceiveably have been expected to know of this site.

EDITED_BY: polarity (1293562678)


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happyinmotion
newbie

Member Since: 7th May 2007
Total posts: 42
Posted:It looks to me like the patent was filed in 2007, so I don't think there's patent fraud here, just a patent that'll be hard to defend.

I don't know of any prior art before that, I started working on the Mitochondrion independently in 2008. Anyone else know of work on LEDs and persistance of vision on poi/staff/baton/stuff before 2007?


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*HyperLight
*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Member Since: 9th Dec 2003
Total posts: 1174
Posted:Originally Posted By: *UltraPoi*You cannot generate random colors. All of your modes follow set sequences. Many of our modes produce completely random colors with no identifiable sequence. I suppose you could create a sequence that is several thousand colors long to simulate this, but I'm not sure if there would be room for any other modes.

It is all based on equations that either randomly choose to display a color or a black space, and then if it is a color, the color is chosen at random. There is no identifiable sequence, the entire mode is based around random variables and you will never be able to take the same picture twice.

Here is an example of a very simple red to blue fade and hold. But some of our sequences fade between completely random colors. Since you cannot choose a color at random and then fade to it from the current color you wouldn't be able to perform a fade like this if red and blue were chosen at random.

Okay, that's a fair point; Hyperlights do not currently have a random feature available on them. Like I said; I was just going on the pictures and the bits and pieces I'd read on here, your site and the Hyperlight website.

If you're seeding a random number generator and then using the random output from that, then technically it would be possible to see a repeat of a pattern if you started from the same seed (extremely unlikely though). I'm sure you wouldn't be able to tell just from watching them either.

The difference with that sort of approach vs programming a random-ish sequence is as you suggest; one is far more memory efficient. We're able to store thousands of commands on a single hyperlight though, so I'm sure you could write a sequence which appears random to all intents and purposes. Particularly as you can call one randomized sequence from another to build up a bigger sequence. You'd still have room for more.

We could add a random number generator to the hyperlights and update the hyperlight language to make use of it if customers wanted that, but we tried a feature along those lines in the early days and the resulting sequences always just looked sort of messy. Your implementation may well be more intelligent though smile

EDITED_BY: *HyperLight (1293627239)


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*HyperLight
*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Member Since: 9th Dec 2003
Total posts: 1174
Posted:Originally Posted By: happyinmotionAnyone else know of work on LEDs and persistance of vision on poi/staff/baton/stuff before 2007?

I started showing off hyperlights which use persistence of vision looong before that (I have pictures here on HoP from 2005).

They only used a single light source mind you.

A quick google suggests the patent owners are a French juggling duo.

EDITED_BY: *HyperLight (1293627875)


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polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1228
Posted:Originally Posted By: happyinmotionAnyone else know of work on LEDs and persistance of vision on poi/staff/baton/stuff before 2007?

Luxeon Poi...

LED skunkworks: Wish list/brainstorm.

Open source LED poi

[WIP]Cyberlight - Led poi

http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showpho...all&page=20
br>


Plenty of prior art right there, dating right back to 2004. Also while I was making my programmable multi LED poi back in 2005, I'm not the first, as there was a guy called Joe Derry designing multi LED poi called Illuminati that got mentioned a few times on HoP (shame the video isn't still up).

EDITED_BY: polarity (1293635869)


You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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RabbitEatsMoon
stranger

Member Since: 28th Sep 2010
Total posts: 10
Posted:Well, if you're talking prior art, how about this one? smile

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5748157.pdf
br>
To be honest I think the way this goes is that a patent is pretty academic unless the holder decides to sue. And no one's going to sue you over making a few of something in your bedroom. But if you make a big name for your new company (with associated profits) then it makes it much more worthwhile for someone (anyone) to sue you. And at that point owning such a patent will probably help them in court. But I'm no lawyer.


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happyinmotion
newbie

Member Since: 7th May 2007
Total posts: 42
Posted:Originally Posted By: *HyperLight[quote=*UltraPoi*]We could add a random number generator to the hyperlights and update the hyperlight language to make use of it if customers wanted that, but we tried a feature along those lines in the early days and the resulting sequences always just looked sort of messy. Your implementation may well be more intelligent though smile

I dunno about other people's implementations, but I've been having a play with generating random colour sequences and smooth colour transitions between them. Just randomly picking values for red, green, and blue gives a colour that tends to be just mucky. On average, you're going to get roughly equal brightnesses for red, green, and blue so you end up with something grey-ish.

What I've found better is to start with a certain number of points. Randomly assign these points to the first colour component, then assign what's left to the next component and so on until you run out of points. For example, start with 400 points. Pick the (0-255) brightness for blue, say it comes out at 190, that leaves 210 points. Pick the brightness for red out of the points that are left, say it comes out at 180, that leaves 30 points for green. In this case, we've come up with a nice purple that's not quite a pure purple.

This approach means you're much less likely to end up with something grey. You're more likely to get a purer colour or mix of just two colours. You can vary the number of points to limit the complexity of the colour, if you just choose lower point then you're more likely to end up with a single hue.

And hey, I'm not patenting this coz it's bleeding obvious.


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happyinmotion
newbie

Member Since: 7th May 2007
Total posts: 42
Posted:Originally Posted By: RabbitEatsMoonWell, if you're talking prior art, how about this one? smile

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5748157.pdf
br>

Ooo, nicely found sir!


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*UltraPoi*
*UltraPoi*

Ultrapoi.com
Location: Texas, USA
Member Since: 12th Feb 2007
Total posts: 49
Posted:Originally Posted By: happyinmotion

I dunno about other people's implementations, but I've been having a play with generating random colour sequences and smooth colour transitions between them. Just randomly picking values for red, green, and blue gives a colour that tends to be just mucky. On average, you're going to get roughly equal brightnesses for red, green, and blue so you end up with something grey-ish.

What I've found better is to start with a certain number of points. Randomly assign these points to the first colour component, then assign what's left to the next component and so on until you run out of points. For example, start with 400 points. Pick the (0-255) brightness for blue, say it comes out at 190, that leaves 210 points. Pick the brightness for red out of the points that are left, say it comes out at 180, that leaves 30 points for green. In this case, we've come up with a nice purple that's not quite a pure purple.

This approach means you're much less likely to end up with something grey. You're more likely to get a purer colour or mix of just two colours. You can vary the number of points to limit the complexity of the colour, if you just choose lower point then you're more likely to end up with a single hue.

And hey, I'm not patenting this coz it's bleeding obvious.
You are right on target HappyinMotion. One issue is that you can still end up with grays if you are unlucky. While our method for generating colors is actually a lot different from this (we never get greys), You've described a fairly simple means of getting good color variation and ending up with colors that for the most part are not dim or washed out.


<br />Ultra Poi, LLC<br />Member

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polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1228
Posted:I think the problem of dim colors comes from not having constant brightness.

The way I got round it was to have preset colors, and then have a system to fade between any of them, but make sure all the presets were of the same brighness, so that variable never changed, something like:

Red = 255,0,0
Magenta = 127,0,127
White = 85,85,85

While white was never as bright as it could have been, but it was also never brighter than any of the primaries on their own, and any other color maintained that brightness thanks to it's values being relative to the baseline white.

16 million colors includes every single possible combination of RGB(255,255,255) values, and a lot of colors the human eye simply can't distinguish between. It's just the next digitally produced color palette above 64 thousand, where it is still possible to tell between some of the colors.

Ideally you want to ignore values that vary saturation and brightness from the baseline, and only alter the hues used, because colors only look dim and washed out when they are seen relative to a full white value.


You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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*UltraPoi*
*UltraPoi*

Ultrapoi.com
Location: Texas, USA
Member Since: 12th Feb 2007
Total posts: 49
Posted:I think when it comes to hyperlights and ultrapoi the motto is the brighter the better.

<br />Ultra Poi, LLC<br />Member

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*HyperLight
*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Member Since: 9th Dec 2003
Total posts: 1174
Posted:Bright is definitely good, but sometimes some of the dimmer sequences and contrasts in brightness can work well too smile

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polarity
polarity

veteran
Location: on the wrong planet
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1228
Posted:And I'm sure anyone watching would appreciate not having an afterimage burned into their retinas.

Brightness is good, but only in terms of contrast ratio so you can use them in brighter conditions. At night, there is such a thing as 'bright enough'.


You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Lol who says that? I want it to be so bright I blind a pilot flying overhead and he crashes exactly 1000ft behind me for dramatic effect.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Jameth
Jameth

enthusiast
Location: NSW
Member Since: 19th May 2008
Total posts: 378
Posted:I'm less ambitious - but I would like them to be as bright as fire is. wink

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happyinmotion
newbie

Member Since: 7th May 2007
Total posts: 42
Posted:Ah come on! There's no such thing as bright enough.

I want it to look like I'm juggling with lightning.

I want bystanders to be hiding behind solid objects.

I'm in New Zealand and I want Australians to think the dawn has come early.

That's how bright I want it.


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*UltraPoi*
*UltraPoi*

Ultrapoi.com
Location: Texas, USA
Member Since: 12th Feb 2007
Total posts: 49
Posted:Hey Friends,

We have got some footage for you displaying some of our new modes that are amazing! The full production of the new generation of Ultra Poi are due by summer after a few of our other products are released.

Our most current gear that has been set loose is the Dropz 4 Ultra which is an LED microlight that displays all of Ultra Poi's modes in an ultra compact form, they are being sold by our partners at www.Liquidemotions.com.

New Modes!!!




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<br />Ultra Poi, LLC<br />Member

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*HyperLight
*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Member Since: 9th Dec 2003
Total posts: 1174
Posted:Some interesting looking modes in there although I could make out about 3 or 4 distinct patterns? It's very difficult filming high-intensity poi though smile

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*UltraPoi*
*UltraPoi*

Ultrapoi.com
Location: Texas, USA
Member Since: 12th Feb 2007
Total posts: 49
Posted:Their were quite a few new modes displayed in that video, of course their is nothing like seeing the real deal.

Taking a look at our mode list will hint toward the madness:
Website%20Ultra%20Poismall









































Also here's a new video of us at Ultra Music Festival letting the public have some fun with the gear:




www.Ultrapoi.com

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Jameth
Jameth

enthusiast
Location: NSW
Member Since: 19th May 2008
Total posts: 378
Posted:Any news on the ultra pixel poi? They seem to have dropped off your website frown

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specialtyledscom
stranger
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Member Since: 8th Sep 2011
Total posts: 4
Posted:These are as bright as fire poi -





- Custom Website Development - Professional and Highly Creative Solutions. Programming/Custom Scripting/Custom Graphical Design for all.

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*HyperLight
*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Member Since: 9th Dec 2003
Total posts: 1174
Posted:They don't _look_ as bright as fire poi ...videos can be misleading though. Any chance of a side-by-side comparison?

If you've only got one colour on at a time that's just 1W of light you're emitting right?

I like the tracing effects you get from the light cast through the holes - neat smile

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*UltraPoi*
*UltraPoi*

Ultrapoi.com
Location: Texas, USA
Member Since: 12th Feb 2007
Total posts: 49
Posted:
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REV CHIP IS LIVE!!!

Hey Ultra Poi Fans,

We have a very special announcement to make! We here at Ultra Poi, LLC are proud to present the Rev Chip, it is the most advanced Micro Controller Chip Technology that we have ever Designed. We found it critically important to make the Rev Chip extremely sophisticated because it will be featured in all of the upcoming Ultra Product Releases, including the Ultra Poi! When we began the Design Process on the Rev Chip we wanted to push the boundaries of how a user can Interact and Control the Visual Displays of the Lights they love to use. With this goal in mind we have paved the way to the most advanced on-board Operating System that a RGB light has ever seen.

With our new Rev Chip not only can you use all of the amazing Preset Modes that you have seen in all of our Ultra Poi videos but, you now are able to build your own Custom Color Sequence by operating the Button on the Light, no computer required! Additionally all of the Preset Modes and Custom Color Modes have been Upgraded with awesome new Colors and Display Options that are out of this world! Check out the Mode Sheets and Video below to get a taste of the madness on our first of many Lights using the Rev Chip, the Dropz Rev Microlight, sold on www.LiquidEmotions.com .

We will be releasing new products frequently for tne next few months so be sure to join our presale information list and keep visiting www.ultrapoi.com.

We will also be updating the website soon with a all new look!





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EDITED_BY: *UltraPoi* (1323358744)


<br />Ultra Poi, LLC<br />Member

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*HyperLight
*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Member Since: 9th Dec 2003
Total posts: 1174
Posted:Originally Posted By: *UltraPoi*we have paved the way to the most advanced on-board Operating System that a RGB light has ever seen.
We'll see ;-)


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happyinmotion
newbie

Member Since: 7th May 2007
Total posts: 42
Posted:Originally Posted By: *UltraPoi*we have paved the way to the most advanced on-board Operating System that a RGB light has ever seen.

Yeah, bring it!


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*UltraPoi*
*UltraPoi*

Ultrapoi.com
Location: Texas, USA
Member Since: 12th Feb 2007
Total posts: 49
Posted:Glad to see that the fans share our enthusiasm!!! blush

Here's one of our newest videos to help cope with your excitement. crazy




<br />Ultra Poi, LLC<br />Member

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*UltraPoi*
*UltraPoi*

Ultrapoi.com
Location: Texas, USA
Member Since: 12th Feb 2007
Total posts: 49
Posted:yes Some new surprises to the Brightest LED Poi in the World coming soon! yes


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EDITED_BY: *UltraPoi* (1408579447)


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*UltraPoi*
*UltraPoi*

Ultrapoi.com
Location: Texas, USA
Member Since: 12th Feb 2007
Total posts: 49
Posted:UltraPoi's Pro LED Sock Poi are now available on the Greatest Poi Website on the Planet: HomeofPoi.com bounce2 bounce2 bounce2 bounce2 bounce2 bounce2 bounce2 Pick them up now!!! (brightness will blow your mind, in a good way)
http://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/productDetails/Ultrapoi-LED-Sock-Poi-with-handles

http://www.homeofpoi.com/us/shop/productDetails/Ultrapoi-LED-sock-Poi
br>
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EDITED_BY: *UltraPoi* (1418940692)


<br />Ultra Poi, LLC<br />Member

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Page: 123

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