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Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet
Member Since: 21st May 2009
Total posts: 252
Posted:So in most of the performance videos I have seen, very few people have done much BTB spinning.

How much do you use BTB stuff when spinning and do you think it's essential? Or just something to make people go "ooooh".

I have learned a few BTB patterns which I very rarly use as it doesn't feel natrual moving into the possitions.

So how often do you use BTB stuff and do you think it's needed to make your spinning look good?


"We were making castles in the sand: Now we swim in the seas that swept them away"

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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:Of course its not needed to make your spinning look good.

Its like saying "Do you need to have vegemite to make a tasty sandwich?"

Nope, you can have heaps of other stuff on your sandwich and its still yum.

I like to use some waistwrap stuff, but just the btb 3 beat I don't use much.... though thats probably partly due to a collarbone issue making fwd btb 3 beat very painful for me. Reverse is ok, but its just one thing and there are millions of other, more interesting things I could do out in front.

I guess it depends on your repertoire.


hug

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:It is helpful to learn, even if you do not do much with it, if only because you have to change your thinking a bit.

I need to still solidify the forwards one, but do not really use them much.

I would say learn them if you want something that feels quite different.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:BTB weave is one of those moves which everyone learns and then no one uses smile

It's useful and get's you used to spinning in awkward places and leads nicely into BTB-waistwraps, but on it's own it's a bit dull.

It does have occasional uses in partner work mind you as it means you can face someone without poi getting in the way...


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:Honestly, I've found the training I did for btb weave really helpful for learning meltdowns, but I hate actually doing the weave itself, and none of the ways of transitioning into it really feel natural. I haven't learned anything like a waist wrap, which I think would have more visual appeal, but I still rarely see that show up in a performance. I think they're worthwhile as a challenge, but I don't think a performance suffers when it lacks them.

p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s

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Lye
Lye

Fate Keeps Telling Me To Stop

Member Since: 24th Sep 2009
Total posts: 270
Posted:sometimes the poi fly behind you. best to have as much comfort back there as you do in the front. i want to learn everything behind my back and all the transitions so i can eventually do everything everywhere.

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Sambo_Flux
Sambo_Flux

Introverted
Location: Norf London
Member Since: 14th Jun 2006
Total posts: 833
Posted:I hardly ever do standard btb weaves anymore, but I do integrate a lot of btb stuff when I'm spinning. Mostly it's btb wallplane waist-wraps and forwards to backwards weaves, especially 4 beats. I've found it's really nice learning these as you can do various funky things from them like under arm airwraps from a btb position, and turning around with. But as most people on this thread have said, you don't have to do btb for nice spinning. I favour flower patterns, hybrids and cateyes at the moment anyway.

My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean

If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:The most useful transition I have found into the vanilla btb weaves is to turn without moving the poi. Any other ideas would be welcome.

Also, check out Exuro's behind the back ideas session. Do not have a link, but it was on youTube a while back.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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DrexFactor
DrexFactor

Defeats the purpose
Location: Washington, DC USA
Member Since: 18th Jul 2007
Total posts: 72
Posted:I used BTB waistwraps fairly frequently because they're a good compliment to meltdowns, which I'm a big fan of.

Ultimately the question is not how much other people use them, but how much you do. I avoided learning isolations for over a year till I discovered I needed them for hybrids and to this day they're sloppier for that neglect. Overall, I think it makes one more balanced to try and learn a little bit of everything and then engage more deeply on those tricks or frameworks that seem to yield the most interesting types of motion to you. As annoying as it may be to learn any given trick like this, that just tells you that there's a basic motor skill at work that you haven't yet built up and regardless of whether you use it with any frequency as time goes on, having it in your arsenal will make you a better spinner overall.


Peace,
Drex

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:It took me two years to learn this damn move and along with finally getting I discovered a few other things along the way like just how loudly I could scream and just how far a flung poi can actually travel. I never use it, and I only practice it when I think about it which means I look like a psycho with a stomach ache when I do.

So to me...not very important.


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Chloe'
Chloe'

enthusiast
Location: SouthDakota, USA
Member Since: 27th Jan 2009
Total posts: 324
Posted:I actually like doing btb weaves...but thats just me. I hardly ever see anyone else use them though. It helps with variation and learning other moves I think.

Listen to Your heartbeat and dance...

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JayKitty
JayKitty

Mission: Ignition
Location: Central New Jersey
Member Since: 7th Nov 2004
Total posts: 534
Posted:The ability to have the poi anywhere around your body is a nice thing. My style is mostly transitions anyway, so I'll be spinning and turning and do half a beat or a beat or so behind me. As far as just standing there doing btb, I don't just stand there and do btb butterfly either, but I know how and I use the knowledge constantly. Check out Nick's theory on no beat windmills and such, it really makes you think about the direction of your skill. Being able to do a fourbeat windmill is cool, but is it the best move? But I digress, learn your basics and your poi will love you for it.

Don't mind me, just passing through.

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:Originally Posted By: JayKittyBut I digress, learn your basics and your poi will love you for it.

So will your head and anything else that you used to hit. wink

But I consider the ability to do stuff btb or bth as a basic skill. Have not seen Nick's no beat theory that much, but I agree.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Tankboy
Resident Demolitions Expert
Location: San Francisco, Ca
Member Since: 10th Jan 2006
Total posts: 103
Posted:BTB weave helps heaps when learning to turn in waistwraps.

If you see a move/trick/pattern, and have any idea how to imitate it, do it.


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T-S-A
T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet
Member Since: 21st May 2009
Total posts: 252
Posted:Originally Posted By: DurbsBTB weave is one of those moves which everyone learns and then no one uses smile

It's useful and get's you used to spinning in awkward places and leads nicely into BTB-waistwraps, but on it's own it's a bit dull.

It does have occasional uses in partner work mind you as it means you can face someone without poi getting in the way...

I agree, I rarly use BTB weaves, butterflys or BTH butterflys. But it definitely helps with my "learn to spin in every position" mission I'm currently on.


I just rarly see many people throwing in many BTB weaves or butterflys in their routines.... Not seen many use air wraps either come to think of it :s


"We were making castles in the sand: Now we swim in the seas that swept them away"

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16.15.8
16.15.8

I cant think therefore Im not
Location: In my backpack
Member Since: 16th Jul 2005
Total posts: 291
Posted:No matter what you choose to practice its all essential to be able of controlling your poi in every possible combination of plane/body position/timing/direction, the question is where your priority are.
Personally I would say, do what you feel is natural step in your spinning....


"I dont like shoes, definitely not spinning with shoes, they make my feet feel flat, my feet are not flat...."

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DyamiTK
DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca
Member Since: 11th Mar 2008
Total posts: 159
Posted:In performance it is generally best to do movements that can be done confidently and clearly and all that.

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leospoi
leospoi

Poi explorer
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Member Since: 2nd Feb 2008
Total posts: 108
Posted:I think BTB is a pretty essential aspect of poi spinning, since it opens up a much greater variety of body movement, but it depends on what you want to concentrate more, either technical spinning or body flow/dance.

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Derek_Faughn
DerekJF85
Location: Garland, TX
Member Since: 27th May 2008
Total posts: 101
Posted:I think its depends on the style you are going for. I do think its important to learn BTB, it can make flow alot easier, a free up alot of movement. Check out nevisoul. He does alot of BTB and waistwraps and makes it look beautiful.

"Dream as you will live forever, and live as you will die today"
James Dean

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T-S-A
T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet
Member Since: 21st May 2009
Total posts: 252
Posted:Yeah, Toms (hope you don't mind me refering to you by your 1st name :P) waistwraps are something special *ego stroke ;)*.

It looks like I will be spending some time sorting out my BTB stuff grin


"We were making castles in the sand: Now we swim in the seas that swept them away"

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Soverntear
journeyman

Member Since: 20th Dec 2006
Total posts: 56
Posted:for myself i found it really useful to learn and i practice it allot. allot of fun transitions can come out of it

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DyamiTK
DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca
Member Since: 11th Mar 2008
Total posts: 159
Posted:everything is useful. everything relates to and helps in understanding/doing anything else. If you want to have freedom of movement then all movement is important.






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Dekan
stranger

Member Since: 25th Dec 2009
Total posts: 8
Posted:Originally Posted By: astonThe most useful transition I have found into the vanilla btb weaves is to turn without moving the poi. Any other ideas would be welcome.

Also, check out Exuro's behind the back ideas session. Do not have a link, but it was on youTube a while back.

oh yes i remember seeing that, the chair method. I thought this was the best technique every for BtB weave.


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David_Thomas1
journeyman

Member Since: 24th Jun 2010
Total posts: 88
Posted:Btb hybrids are the most usefull thing you could learn becasuse nodody does them so they would stun crowds more

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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:Because crowds all know exactly how technical what you're doing is and won't go "Oooooh!" at a very simple pirouette just as much, often more than they would at any number of plane change hybrids.

hug

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:This is very true. But they do tend to notice certain things, mostly things behind my back or really crazy things that make them go WTF. Like penduluming into a hybrid crosser extension gets some attention for sure. Or anything where you pretzel yourself laugh3

But ultimately cool looking things get the best reactions or things that they by no means expect to happen like an orbital or a toss. Or a very high toss! Crowds will go into a censored beastly roar if I do that thing where I throw one poi way up from a one handed butterfly and manage to catch it. (I rarely do in the dark laugh3)


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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brenonfire413
brenonfire413

Fire Spinner Exarch
Location: New Orleans, LA United States
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2009
Total posts: 514
Posted:Originally Posted By: SpinnerofDetroitCrowds will go into a censored beastly roar if I do that thing where I throw one poi way up from a one handed butterfly and manage to catch it.

qft people love that little combo!


"Are you sure it's safe to drink bleach?"
"Yes, bleach is 90% water, we are 90% water, therefore: we are bleach."
-Nathan Explosion, Metalocalypse

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:It's so much easier when it's not night, and you don't have a black chain with black handles or your wooden balls that darkened over time xD DARK!

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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