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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Malcolm has set up guidelines for Flash FIre and I to use as your humble moderators but I am intereseted to hear what you all expect from us as well. While we are to use these guidelines and our best judgement primarily what else do you think would help?*side note: I asked for suggestions, no garuntees here kiddo's that they'll be used!
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*------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Posted:hey!um - can we have a couple of things (please)1) senior membership is earned at 200 posts.2) Senior members dont have to see the Yellow warning message (It's hurting my eyes). This would be easy to do, with a cookie check or something.3) you guys only step in as a last line of defence. I've seen online communities almost ruined by overzealous admins (anyone on Oz-trance about a month ago will know what I mean)Love and Light,Josh

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Peregrine


member
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA

Total posts: 428
Posted:dont think the 200 posts thing is good because it is so subject to abuse...imagine someone posting 200 fluffy messages just to be senior members. then the moderators would be swamped.ahhhhh the yellow thing!!! i would post this entire message one letter at a time to get rid of that...thats possibly more annoying than the annoying posts cuz you cant get away from it.we could do (and maybe its not possible with this list thing) what birdchat does which is to make new members wait 10 days after joining before they can post so they can follow discussions and see what kind of things get discussed. (birdchat also has a point system and you arent allowed to discuss certain topics like cats and i dont see that working here)probably the best way to manage the expanding board is to add a couple of new discussion topics which sorts stuff out. Pere

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mikeyb


member
Location: Oxford, UK

Total posts: 93
Posted:Have to back up Josh about subtle moderation. I'd be very surprised to see you two do it any other way, but it's a good point to make.I'm assuming that your Moderation Guidelines are pretty much the same as the contents of that attractive yellow box. If they're not, could you let us know the key differences so we know what we're discussing in this thread ;-).Think long and hard before canning a post. Often, flame / flamebait's a nightmare, but then, sometimes it can set off a valuable / interesting chain. Remember that what I find offensive may have been posted by someone else in all innocence. Josh's point about Senior Members - Is there any point in having this distinction at all? If all it refers to is quantity, rather than quality, does it matter if the threshold is 5 or 500? I don't respect your posts because you have a little label saying 'senior', i respect your posts because of the consistently high quality content of your posts. Which is why I'm confident of the quality of your moderation. (not sure this is ontopic for this thread but since it's been brought into play...).Usmiley'd personal attacks? Kill 'em. There and then.When moderation happens, consider letting people know. Not always - when you kill an offensive flame, let the flamer know, so they realise it's not worth trying again. When some unregistered random person posts something offensive, no need to tell anyone. If there's a pattern, and you find yourselves having to moderate for the same reason again and again, post something so everyone knows to avoid the same mistake.Also, Pele and FlashFire are well spread out in terms of Time Zones, but if a thread develops (like the Angst thread appeared, developed and resulted in the introduction of Moderation between my leaving work last night and getting in this morning) while you're away, be very careful about retrospectively moderating posts to which other people have already responded. Sometimes you'll have to. But we've seen some threads that started as a flamewar and developed into something quite different. And it would be a shame to nip these in the bud or remove the early context.Anyway, best let the moderation settle in for a few weeks and see how it turns out.Good luck, Mods.mikeyB

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Yeah, those are the guidelines. Thanks for the input. As I guess you all prolly figured out I would rather let a thread play out and see what transpires instead of canning it, so I don't see that happening. As I said before, I really do think people conduct themselves really well on here and that things works themselves out, especially with a bit of carefully placed diplomacy
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. I've been a moderator on here for a few months I think and really haven't felt a need to drop a flag on anyone for anything.Josh...absolutely last line, I agree.Pere has a point about the 200 not meaning quality, I agree. But just cause someone is on a board for 10 days doesn't mean they will have read as thoroughly as they should.I don't know.I had thought maybe pro and amatuer/hobbyist but that doesn't work either, since I still concider myself an amatuer. I think that is a play it by ear thing.As for the yellow thing..well it might require some sunglasses but I think it makes the expectations clear and that is good. Can't miss it and so if someone says "Gee, i didn't see it" then we know they are typing with braille you know?
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What I do think, and I just came up with this from these posts is that to close anything should be a mutual agreement between Malcolm, Flash Fire and Myself, since between the three of us we could all look at something from a different approach...is this something the three of us could agree on, therefore there is no toe stepping?I don't think the board needs an overhaul. Maybe a few more topics...new moves just called "Moves", an area for "Toys and Tools", the General discussion kept to the off topic and general things, as well as all those lovely performance threads I adore (insurance, set ups etc...they tickle me
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)Thanks all and keep those suggestions coming. I dunno about the others (as they are prolly in bed now on the other end of the globe
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) but I am really appreciating this.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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nomad
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France

Total posts: 356
Posted:I agree on those basic guidelines. It seems like the board doesn't need a police or a Big Brother because everyone is pretty well behaved and i don't even remember reading bigotted or personnal attacks ever. I think it just need some discipline: encourage people to use "search", post the right topics in the right forums, etc. So closing threads and/or moving them like it's been done since yesterday is the best thing to do (with proper communication to the author of the thread, so no one gets pissed especially newbies).Good luck Pele and Flashfire, i'm sure you'll do a great job!Nomad

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Shibaki


enthusiast
Location: Tampa, Fl

Total posts: 309
Posted:Here is a short sweet idea:Since HOP is maturing, and we seem to think it is healthy, we can futher aid its journey by perhaps putting a Suggestions tab as one of the categories. It might get some use, it might not. At least we wouldnt have to dig through the entire list to find such an important thread as making this site better.------------------~I dont care if they eat me alive, Ive got better things to do than survive. ~Ani

Wow

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EyeStorm


member
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 54
Posted:As a moderator at two miniature wargaming discussion boards, I have to say that this board is very well behaved. Half of the posts in my forum at the B&C end in the members blowing each other to smithereens, and at the other one, we get the occasional immature poster who decides to fill the board with filth. Both places have 1000-1500 members total(for all forums).So I have to say that this place is an excellent place to discuss Poi, and a model for other boards.
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((m/)) --==EyeStorm==--

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Dr.NoodleHead
BRONZE Member since Mar 2001

member
Location: The Giant Mushroom

Total posts: 170
Posted:Woah!Just come back from a mellow week away (did fire for my folks for the first time
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and boogied away in a carnival procession with a 3m (9ft) headdress - cool!)Did I miss something? I always thought everyone here was really nice, humorous and considerate - the yellow thing was quite a shock.IMHO (whoops, can't use that)....- the senior/member thingy is pretty irrelevent - what does it show? People can count posts if they're into that sort of thing.- maybe put the "please search first" thingy in the yellow wotsit?- personal attacks are always unacceptable but I never noticed it was a problem here.I was happy, still am happy and hopefully always will be happy with this board and all you luvverly peeps out there - keep it real.Happy happy and a gratuitous smiley
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Noods


Fish are just like trees except they move and they're invisible

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Shouden-CrD
SILVER Member since Apr 2001

Veteran Member
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Total posts: 495
Posted:Can't say I like the yellow banner, however I do think that it should be there as it is good to state general guidelines/etiquette. heh When you think about it..all those guidelines are, are Nettiquette.
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As for moderation, I don't think we'll have any problems.
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An interesting idea on 'Senior Members' and such. Maybe it would be possible for every post you make, you get a certain amount of points. These points can be given to other people. When you get a certain number of points, then you become a Senior Member. That way it is up to everyone to determine each others' rank. If we were guilded, this would all be very clear. :Pjust my 2gp..plur,CRD


-=razyRaverude=-

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ShawnF


member
Location: Springfield, MA - USA

Total posts: 162
Posted:I might as well chime in here too... CRD, trust me the point thing is asking for trouble..hehe
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But, I think the steps being taken should be fine. I'd say give the couple additional topics, moderate when necessary, and leave it at that.I was going to write a big response, on one of the two threads that started all of this, talking about life-cycles of boards, etc. etc. but probably would just bore everyone out of their minds..hehe. Suffice it to say that there is a lot of great people on here, with a lot of good information floating around.And remember that the good 'ole days were never really quite what they actually were. I seem to remember quite a lot of firefights on the original board, with various people trying to say that a site like this shouldn't even exist. That stuff should only be taught face to face, that having a lot of people know poi would make it no longer have any impact, etc.I'd say things are going fine for a semi-mature board.
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The yellow box seems fine... even though what someone mentioned of having a mention of search in it might be a good idea...


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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:Hey people....The yellow box is cool. Yellow is a bright and happy colour!!
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Re: Search. When you post new topic, a slightly different version of the box comes up, and that suggests you try search first and even provides you with the link! yay Malcolm.Re: Senior Membership. C'mon guys - is it really that important? We're all just us - pretty much equal (except for the almighty and powerful moderators
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) I personally don't give a damn whether a person is a senior member or a first-timer - all it really indicates is the amount of spare time someone has!------------------"she dances in a ring of fire and throws off the challenge with a shrug"


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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Posted:erm = perhaps I didnt express myself well enough re the senior thing.I think anyone who has seen that yellow box 200 times has either read it or not..and either way doesnt need to see it anymore. its a simple fix.I think 30 views (current senior status threshold I think) isnt enough, so I said to raise it.Im not the most skilled person on this board, but I have a hell of a lot of posts...I gasbag, and I help out, and occassionallyl share something I worked out. I certainly dont think the number of posts has anything to do with the skill level. I bet there are lurkers out there that are a shitload better than I am (possibly better than any registered member).SOI've seen this yellow box about 10 times so far, its already annoying me, and I thought I'd let you know.I understand its purpose, but it's purpose for me is served, and I dont need to read it anymore, thanks.It is bright (understatement), it screws with the flow of the page, and its only really suitable for newbies.Josh

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Finn


member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 341
Posted:Hey Josh,Just scroll down brother. As Flash said, yellow is a happy colour
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--------I'm a moderator on a bulletin board some of you are probably members of... bluelight.nuIt has over 20,000 members, many of whom make the newbies at home of poi look like rhodes scholars
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. Believe me, the home of poi is downright civilised compared to bluelight and many other bulletin boards out there. And what's even more important, things work at the home of poi. We have no server issues, no problems with bandwidth, and an administrator who responds promptly to our feedback and constructive criticism.I guess what I'm trying to say is.... we have it damn good here. Nothing's a drama at the home of poi. Well, not now that a few things have been taken care of. (thanks to all responsible for initiating these changes)
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The senior member / member thing is UBB related. It's part of the software. Malcolm could change the number of posts required to reach senior member status if we really thought it necessary (i don't), but initiating a points system (like Pere suggested) is a bit more complicated. Malcolm would have to find himself some UBB hacks I think. Any of you techie people know?As for moderating...I think the guidelines that have been developed are great. As long as we (as in all of us) continue to respect each others right to speak openly and freely, the home of poi will be a fun place to hang out. As Flash pointed out yesterday, most of the time, the only moderating required, will be the transferral of threads from one forum to another.And that's as it should be!Finn
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Katinca


Katinca

See my vest.... see my vest...
Location: Adelaide - South Australia

Total posts: 693
Posted:Ok I only have a short message to add here, and this is: I was thinking, "what is this yellow box people are talking about? I have never seen that yellow box..."Then I replied and I saw it. My eyes are still hurting from it. I personally don't think it is necessary, it's bright and annoying. But that's my opinion."I like bright colours, but sometimes the pretty lights hurt my precious eyes"------------------ ~*~ Katinca ~*~

Love and Light

~*~ Katinca ~*~

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Posted:Oh yeah, that box is annoying. I'ld never seen it before!now then, I really don't know what the fuss about senior membership is. I don't care if I see someone is senior I don't pay any more or less attention the their posts. Everyone says good stuff sometimes and boring or repeated stuff sometimes - I haven't noticed any corrilation between this and a persons status.Plus it is 30 posts to gain seniority but I don't think anyone's mentioned the old board. What about people who have lots of posts on that? And what about people who have forgotten their password so have been posting unregistered? (silly me....)If I'm sounding serious then belive me I'm not being! This is a pass time - and can be really useful too but it isn't somthing to get stressed about.have fun.Jo.

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N8


member
Location: NY, USA

Total posts: 336
Posted:Yellow.....banner....hurt..ing...eyes.......Must....change....colour....before...too..late...Could we please make that thing blue or some other colour besides "nuclear-fallout-shelter-yellow" ???please.

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

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EyeStorm


member
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 54
Posted:About ranks: my other board got rid of them simply because there were things like spam simply to gain rank, posts asking "How mNy postz doo I need to B A veteran?" etc.It got quite annoying.

((m/)) --==EyeStorm==--

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Simos


enthusiast
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 382
Posted:i totally agree on removing the yellow box...it reminds me of a road sign! :-Djoking aside it could be moved to another page if it truly necessary to have it!an idea would be to have a link with big(-ish) fonts on the page where you chose which forum to visit; then only the people visiting the discussion board for the first time get to click on it and see it and read the guidelines once...to be fair i seriously doubt it that anyone has read that box more than once (and it does make the eyes hurt, especially after a long day in front of the computer)...otherwise i'd say this site has seen an amazing improvement over the past year, well done Malcolm and everyone that has helped...happy swinging,Simos

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Total posts: 1017
Posted:I am working on a cookie thing to only show the yellow boxes a few times only to new people to the board. I am learning how to use/do cookies this weekend. Hmm all those cookies make me hungry
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RegardsMalcolm


"May your balls always burn"

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Total posts: 1017
Posted:good bye yellow boxes
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.....hello grey boxes
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"May your balls always burn"

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Posted:I'm glad my point about the membership thing wasnt lost on everyone Malcolm
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Josh


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N8


member
Location: NY, USA

Total posts: 336
Posted:Thank you for changing the color of the box Malcolm. As always you proove to be very passionate as to the feelings and opinions of the members of your site. I think that the box still puts the same message across and isn't as "loud" as it was. It was a welcome compromise- thanx.You're awesome.------------------Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

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gάrbǿ


gάrbǿ

addict
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / C...

Total posts: 521
Posted:yipeeee
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the yellow box has gone. It was like having a light bulb pressed up against each eye ball
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. he he he peace outgarbo
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be excellent to each other: safe:

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:Speaking of cookies and such, for a couple of months now, the HoP BBS hasn't been able to retain my username/password for more than a day at a time. Is this just me?

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:You mean it was supposed to Adam?Never has retained it for me,but I never really saw that as a big deal.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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knas


member
Location: Malm in sweden

Total posts: 7
Posted:Ello!Why dont you judge if you are a senior member by the number of replys u get. Then people will write good posts. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyrranys of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepards the weak through the valley of darkness for he is truly his brothers keeper, and the finder of lost children. And I shall strike down upon thee with great vengence and furious anger, those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the lord when I lay my vengence upon thee! " // KNAS[This message has been edited by knas (edited 04 June 2001).]

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emthren


member
Location: Sydney

Total posts: 57
Posted:For me, people get their own "Senior Member" label by the type of posts they make. Don't need a prompt on the screen to tell me who's worth reading or not.
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