Forums > Social Chat > Position on mentions of drugs abuse on HoP ?

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:hello beautiful people

A thread was posted in a joking and light funny manner about being too drunk to speak etc... and I posted a comment about me being slightly worried about the younger crowds joining HoP more and more and the influence it may have on them ...?

That being said I should not have highjacked a light hearted funny joking thread (and all in all really inoffensive I know...) and put a damper on it... and i am sorry about that

but it really got me thinking...

WHat is HoP s position on the mention of use of illegal products and alcohol abuse ? is it different if it is a full thread about it or just a light mention here and there (hell i even joked about going around all the threads when charles got his baby and pretending I was cyber drunk drinking champagne to celebrate the event)

do we actually have an impact on others younger people if we express our support for this or that ? or is taht bullshit ?

Please note this NOT, really not a judgement nor is it a discussion on whether or not one should do drugs, I have no problem with any of it and private use of whatever... this is only about what you think is the impact of what is being said online on the life and opinions of people offline...

Hope you do not flame me on that one or take it the wrong way... I may have a mummy instinct which may be silly but I am really repectfull for all of your opinions and nd genuinely interested to have your opinions...

shine on
Cass


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Dio
Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA
Member Since: 11th Jul 2002
Total posts: 729
Posted:Historically, most threads that got out of hand with the drug comments tended to self-regulate and tone things down pretty well.

As far as whether or not mentioning drug use on the boards can affect the reader one way or another, I'd have to say it probably doesn't. I certainly haven't changed my thinking on drugs/alcohol due to comments I've seen posted regarding those topics, so I wouldn't say it's dangerous for our young members in that respect.

However, the main impact I do see to discussing those issues is that it makes the community look really bad. I don't want to sign on and see threads about "how drunk I was" or "spinning under influences," things like that... because it makes the members look like junkies, addicts, etc. Posting your opinions on whether something should be legal, or whether it's dangerous or not, things like that don't really drag down other users or bring HoP/Malcolm any sort of trouble. Posting about the wondrous virtues of your latest substance-related experience, on the other hand, does.

I say keep it clean for the sake of HoP and Malcolm's repuations, as well as our own as a community. And that's pretty much what goes on on the boards here - even those who use controlled substances don't really try to cause an association between the community and their habits.


What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Everything said or done in front of people has an influence on them.

With younger people, the chances are very high that the influence will be much stronger than with an adult.

There are a number of self-regulatory systems in place (parents, friends, teachers etc) that tend to override a lot of these influences and let the child know their opinions so the child can decide for themselves.

The problem with illegal or clandestine activities is the children are usually in groups or on their own, deliberately hiding from society because they know they will get in trouble.

This means they seldom get to hear about the downside from an adult they respect, or be punished for it, or any other regulatory action.

so yes, everything we do and say influences people.

yes, children are more easily influenced than adults.

and, yes, drugs and alcohol abuse are more likely to have a serious effect because of their clandestine nature...

In my opinion, of course


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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ViciousVixen
member
Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Member Since: 25th Aug 2002
Total posts: 103

Kaji
Kaji

Quantum Theorist
Location: Vansterdam
Member Since: 12th Dec 2002
Total posts: 564
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Cassandra:
hello beautiful people

A thread was posted in a joking and light funny manner about being too drunk to speak etc... and I posted a comment about me being slightly worried about the younger crowds joining HoP more and more and the influence it may have on them ...?

At least the younger HOPers can see how big of idiots we are while being drunk and stoned in that thread maybe they'll decide not to that way. But this has got me to thinking about the subject... I until further notice I will reframe from making any more comments regarding the use/selling/growing of Cannabis Sativa.


In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird, now the world is weird and they take prozac to make it normal again.

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Malcolm
Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: HOP
Member Since: 18th Nov 2003
Total posts: 995
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Dio:
the main impact I do see to discussing those issues is that it makes the community look really bad. I don't want to sign on and see threads about "how drunk I was" or "spinning under influences," things like that... because it makes the members look like junkies, addicts, etc. Posting your opinions on whether something should be legal, or whether it's dangerous or not, things like that don't really drag down other users or bring HoP/Malcolm any sort of trouble. Posting about the wondrous virtues of your latest substance-related experience, on the other hand, does.

Dio, I agree

quote:We become like the people we hang out with- can not remember who said that?

I want to be forever young, fun loving, creative, mature, considerate, wise, ...
Those are the people I like to hang out with.


"May your balls always burn"

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Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:At this point I would like to point out that there are drinking and smoking graemlins. Neither are illegal (or vary in legality depending on where you are in the world) but could be classed as drugs.

Not that it necessarily means anything (bit like most of my posts)


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Flynt
Flynt

Intrepid Penguin

Member Since: 12th May 2002
Total posts: 5635
Posted:Sad but true story:

A young (13 years old) friend of mine named Andrew is very into Poi at the moment. However, he's not allowed to come to spin meets, as his mother read some HoP threads one time, and quickly got the impression that the majority of spinners are "stoners" or drunks.

I'm really rather disturbed that someones mum can come online to a lovely site such as this, and get the idea that her son shouldnt be involved in spinning because he'll be introduced to drugs or alcahol at one of our spin meets.

Thanks for starting this topic Cass. Its been on my mind for a while too.


Currently on the right side up of the world.

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:Humm, last time i was at a spin meet, everyone had been doing acid since 7am, were getting into the mushroon chocolate and smokeing spliffs constantly.

I think the reason that kids mother got the idea that we are stoners is cos we Are. you gotta admit, spinning is a pretty counter-culture lifestyle thing and that dose tend to mean hippies, raves and drugs

Call a spade a spade, just cos you dont toke..

plus hava read of the drunk thread.

T <going for it tonight>


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Valura
Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Since: 25th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6391
Posted:I spin fire almost every day.
I dont drink. I dont smoke. I dont smoke pot. I dont do any drugs except Kero. TEE HEE
I still have fun and would like to think that my posts are still interesting even though they dont contain my storys of tripping off my dial like I used to.
On another note Flynt, does your friend mum stop them from going to school too? Because you can get almost ANY drug you want from Playground pushers now, and by stopping them from going places isnt going to shelter them from it....its going to make them curious as to what its all like.... Maybe you could tell your friends Mum that you will look afer them so that they will be safe...?
My two cents is that usually I skip drug posts because they dont interest me. Each to their own...
Love to me lil chickens


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Flynt
Flynt

Intrepid Penguin

Member Since: 12th May 2002
Total posts: 5635
Posted:hmmmm

I'm trying real hard not to get my hackles up here. Just because YOU do drugs, and the people YOU spin with, doesnt mean that all spinners, or even a majority of them are stoners.

Like attracts like dear sir, if you had a look around, I'm sure you could find plenty of spinners who aren't "chemically enhanced"...

As for my friends mum, yes I agree she's skitzo, I just think its real sad that she should get such an impression so quickly off HoP. It's worth thinking about.


Currently on the right side up of the world.

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:hmmm Tom I can understand your point of view and frankly my post was not whether or not poi dancers are drug addicts or not ... having been a lil bit here and there with fire people around the world i would have to say it is half half and frankly varies from one city to another and greatly from one country to another...

however, this is what one does with one s life and i have NO PROBLEM with that in general, not even willing to discuss that actually here. Problems i may have with it are individual if i see a friend in distress... but not in general and you know me so you know I mean it

my one and only concern is that yes HoP should reflect who we are and is a home which is a place where you feel comfortable and can be yourself ... but it is a very open home with viewers from all over the world and all horizons and all ages and since it is primarly about poi and fire, i just think maybe some things should be kept for PMs and private discussions ?

Spanner has a point about the two smileys and i am not asking at all to ban all products NOR am I asking that we become so PC that we cannot joke or be ourselves... just maybe excercise a bit of caution, respect for Malcolm and maybe respect for a younger more vulnerable crowd...

I am with charles on influence... i remember when i was younger and though To hell with everyone i am my own master, I can make my choices... and yet when I am honest with me ... i was very very influenced by people i looked up to... that does NOT make them responsible for all the stuff I have done ... but I cannot deny the influence they had on me...

hmmmm ... all open to any point of view on this topic

Shine on
Cass


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Jaeden
member
Location: Edmonton
Member Since: 2nd Sep 2001
Total posts: 220
Posted:That is a tough problem. Certain intoxicants do have a significant effect on spinning style and ability, and part of this board is dedicated to just those things. I would like to say that occational references to such things should be as welcome as introducing yourself.

However

Everything you see/read/do etc. does have an influence on you. Younger people do have a weaker sence of self, having had less time to develope it, and are more prone to following examples set by those they respect for whatever reason. I am realy up in the air on this one.

As to your friends mother, that can not be helped. It would be quite easy to come to the belief that all spinners are pyromaniacs (which natually leads to arsonists). How many parrents would want thier children hanging out with a bunch of arsonists?


The world is not out to get you but if you fight it you will be eaten alive

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Kaji
Kaji

Quantum Theorist
Location: Vansterdam
Member Since: 12th Dec 2002
Total posts: 564
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Jaeden:

As to your friends mother, that can not be helped. It would be quite easy to come to the belief that all spinners are pyromaniacsWell I am. Me = Amature Pyrotechnition.

I love Kero but gun powder mmmmmmm *drools uncontrolably*


In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird, now the world is weird and they take prozac to make it normal again.

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DaiTenshi
member
Location: Stillwater, OK
Member Since: 27th Sep 2002
Total posts: 104
Posted:Being on message boards and the like since I was 13, I know that what is said here and tere really has little to know effect on my life. The inffluence of my friends and even enemies in life was far more powerful than anything done or said online.

The same applies to my 16 year old brother.

Give "kids" a little more credit please.

Also, anyone under 13 on these boards is more than likely doing so with the permission and even encouragement of his or her parents....... it's fire spinning, HELLO! Kind of impossible for a parent to miss and not have a stand on.

As for warnings and things......... we were talked into putting a warning on one of our videos because it showed someone breathing fire downward....... while that maybe a generally unsafe practice, so would some stray joe average going out, wrapping a bunch of rags around a dog chain, dousing them in gas, and trying to spin fire with no previous practice...... wouldn't end well, would it? I'd rather not put a warning label on every piece of fire spinning footage I make.......

feh, warnings exist to hamper the natural flow of evolution.

TO HELL WITH WARNINGS

......


Joke, btw. Though I do feel there was no need for a disclaimer on that video- oh, hey, anyone remember the paintball clip in a video we did a while back- if everyone isn't being forced to put a disclaimer in front of every video they make...... hmmmmm, uh, maybe I shouldn't have said that, warning sbetter not become common practice.

Woah, that had nothing to do with mentions of drugs and alchohol........ well, uh, yeah, no it's fine, long as no one details the process for turning a bath tub into a meth lab it's fine.


No one knows me like I do.

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:DaiTenshi - You have agreed to these rules when you became a member of HoP. Everyone did. You can argue about the mechanics behind the rules as much as you like, but it doesn't change the fact you have agreed to them.

And now onto the other debate, which has nothing to do with following the rules or not...

quote: Being on message boards and the like since I was 13, I know that what is said here and there really has little to know effect on my life Thats good to know, but you are forgetting that not everyone in the world is like you. And I have the feeling that perhaps you have been influenced in subtle ways without knowing it.

Do you read books? Hang out with friends? Spend a lot of time on bulletin boards?

If so, I would strongly suggest asking other people to describe your common sayings, knowledge base and general outlook on life.

Then write down everything they say, and try to trace each saying, piece of knowledge and outlooks back to a common factor or exposure. You may be quite surprised how many things are a direct result of one or two particular experiences.

Usually, these experiences come from a whole host of different areas, such as a single phrase in a book, somthing someone else said on abus one time, what you read on a BB once.

This is quite a big exercise but well worth it. It shows how important very small individual things affect your development, especially in an area where you have very little foreknowledge.

I find it quite worrying that you don't appear to understand this aspect of human nature, particuarly as it applies to yourself and your brother.


And it's not just kids who get affected like this, EVERYONE does, including adults. Younger people, in general, have far less experiences than adults, and so their experiences are more likely to affect them more strongly as the experience is a bigger percentage of their life than for an adult.


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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DaiTenshi
member
Location: Stillwater, OK
Member Since: 27th Sep 2002
Total posts: 104
Posted:I didn't say it had absolutly no affect on my beliefs and persona, I said "little to no" and that other aspects of my life were far more inffluencial than my time on boards.

Mostly it's the the last part there that counts: the comparison of a board's inffluence versus the inffluence of all things "IRL".

Sure, others are different, so?

Also, I never "read" the rules per se, just kinda gave 'em a once over.

Sorry to offend, but I recall distinctly as a child as early as 9 being very offended when people who didn't even know me told me what I could and could not handle or that exposure to "drug culture" would somehow turn me into a burnout..... as if I were incapable of seeing some of the-

I guess I'm being self-centered, on my merry way then.

God save the children, and my I never speak of this again ^_^

Edit: don't worry about me, it only makes me edgy and thus creates an unfocused attitude which is something to worry about- oh no, I'M BEING HEAVILY INFFLUENCED BY A BOARD!!!


No one knows me like I do.

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Erm, okay don't get the wrong idea. i'm really quite happy not to chat about "My Great Drug Experience" on HoP. i avoid doing it in front of my mum, so i can avoid doing it on Malcolm's board if thats what he wants

But because i'm an argumentative monkey...
quote:Originally posted by Charles:
You have agreed to these rules when you became a member of HoP. Everyone did. You can argue about the mechanics behind the rules as much as you like, but it doesn't change the fact you have agreed to them

OK, here's the guidelines for unsuitable posts:
quote:You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB.



Where does talking about drugs fit in here? It's not violative of any law to talk about them, and it's certainly not any of the other things.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:what are you a bloody lawyer?!

seriously though, like charles said, we can argue about the rules and the the moral standpoints all day. the blending of this culture and the drugs culture is not a cut and dry issue.
the fact that the board administrator (who is also the site's founder, proprietor and a friend to many of this board's members) has asked for it not to be discussed here is a cut and dry issue.
its been clearly and politely expressed here that we don't want negative attention and i completely agree with and respect malcolm's request.

i have discussed such things in the past but that will end now.
simian is right though - the rules don't mention drug references however and i would imagine that these will be edited very soon.
well spotted attention-to-detail man!


so can we have a 'vote for the new smiley' type thing to replace the drug addled and graemlins...


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:Dai Tenshi I can see what you i,ply here that with this quesion Iam being disrespectfull to children and young people by underestimating their self control and capacity to decide for themselves...

if that is what I sounded like then am sorry and honestly I think otherwise. working with kids as I have done in the past months , and some very youg kids who are felons, criminals or drug addicts as well, I can promise you that I do not recall patronizing them or insulting their inelligence. However I and the people of the circus proramme do our best to give them intresting perspectives through poi / circus rather than doing the apology of drugs...

LOL that makes me sound even worse doesn t it? like some conservative bitch maybe ? .... oh well uch is life ....

My point is that you are right there is a differece between a board and real life.
On this board you only see part of reality.
If I post I m sooooo happy but you do not see the shitty face of dispear I have you do not have all elements to judge ...

If I talk to a person about drugs , my experiences and life I think it is ll right to talk about anything , but on a board you only get parts and bits of pieces of information and that is what bothers me. nd tht is wy I am in the procssof wondering and askin or everyon s opinion

I am keeping my arguments out of the legal issue because as Malcolm has stated it I will respect it ... but it is vey inteesting for me to have thos discussion about influence or not because I am far from thinking I own the truth and therefore thank you very much for your input and hope to read more on the subject

shine on
cass


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:i posted a similar comment in the new thread malcolm started...but here it is again....

the definitions of legal and illegal drugs are according to New Zealand laws. if you dont like them, send a letter to the NZ prime minister (helen clark i believe?)
from what ive seen, the allowable content of HoP seems to fall within those legal guidelines. correct me if im wrong, but the decision on allowable content seems to be a professional one, not personal.
i respect that.

take care all.


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Dio
Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA
Member Since: 11th Jul 2002
Total posts: 729
Posted:My 2:

serves more as a "Cheers" style of icon, and is most often used as a celebratory or friendly item.

seems more to me like it should be labeled "Cool" because that's what it conveys - coolness. Laid-back attitude. Carefree and easygoing.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone using either of those Graemlins in a way that promotes abuse of the respective substances... and let's face it - there's nothing like a tall cold to share a few moments of friendship with people you like.

[edit] RESPONSIBLY, of course!


What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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Gidg
Gidg

Super Gidg!!!!
Location: Portland Oregon USA
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 8506
Posted:I agree with Dio in part.

I always thought as "cheers", a "toast" or having the "tall cold one", in my case that would be lemonade, since I don't drink.

Now the gremlin doesn't necessarily means drugs, but smoking in general. This is where I dont agree with you Dio. I have never thought smoking was cool, but I realize that it is part of my culture that I have accepted as being normal. Personally I would use the .

Like any gremlin/graphic that you use, it is the context in which it is used in that can give it different meanings. For instance I can use this icon and it could mean just teasing, dont take me seriously or something much more sexual. Its all in the context of the message being sent.

(cheers)


Growing old is mandatory; growing up is NOT.
Proud member of the HoP DPS.
Sanity is a highly overrated state of mind.
I'm normal ... it's everyone else that's crazy.

Gidg

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Dio
Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA
Member Since: 11th Jul 2002
Total posts: 729
Posted:quote: it could mean just teasing, dont take me seriously or something much more sexual Why Gidg, are you trying to seduce me?



What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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Gidg
Gidg

Super Gidg!!!!
Location: Portland Oregon USA
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 8506
Posted:Dio, I think the question is are you willing to be seduced?

Growing old is mandatory; growing up is NOT.
Proud member of the HoP DPS.
Sanity is a highly overrated state of mind.
I'm normal ... it's everyone else that's crazy.

Gidg

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