Forums > Social Discussion > Contact juggler opinions on "Fushigi"

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Puff
Puff

The Magic Dragon
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Member Since: 10th Jun 2007
Total posts: 134
Posted:I saw this vid on MOM earlier today and was wondering what other contact jugglers think of it. I quite like what Ryan wrote on the blog post:
Originally Posted By: Ryan from Ministry of Manipulation Contactjuggling.org has been having mixed feeling about this awesome new form of contact juggling, as several of our forum users responded to a contact jugglers needed for promotional ad thread, were hired (via) for the gig and now find themselves involved in a huge marketing campaign that threatens to confuse and disappoint a whole lot of people (who dont understand why their ball doesnt just float out of the box when they open it up) Apologies to all the Fushigi people who have just found this blog post. This stuff is actually HARD and requires a tremendous amount of PRACTICE.




What do you guys think?


Let my words, dear friends, be treasures. Weightless golden butterflies that hang before your eyes for seconds, then are gone. But the dust of truth and beauty that their wingbeats leave behind will settle on your soul and make you happy. - Edward Monkton

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:I personally would hate if they did this with poi. Turn what we practice so long for, and is something that makes us unique and turn it into a marketing campaign and make it seem that anyone can just pick up and do it.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Puff
Puff

The Magic Dragon
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Member Since: 10th Jun 2007
Total posts: 134
Posted:"With a little practice you can conquer Fushigi"

Maybe they are magic cause it's taken me more than a little practice and I'm far from mastering my acrylics.

I suppose if it were to increase popularity then you would have more people coming up with more tricks but I'm still inclined to feel that it's just cheapening something I think is a unique art form by calling it a "magic gravity ball"


Let my words, dear friends, be treasures. Weightless golden butterflies that hang before your eyes for seconds, then are gone. But the dust of truth and beauty that their wingbeats leave behind will settle on your soul and make you happy. - Edward Monkton

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:I don't even contact juggle, and that made me die a little inside. "Magic Gravity Ball" my ass.

It's a serious thing that takes so much time out of out lives and they chock it up as a crappy little toy that first timers can pick up and go all magic with it.


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:At least the few attempts I've seen to popularize some form of poi have been primarily marketing it as an exercise and meditation tool. There's a reason you can't succeed on selling someone on the cool tricks they'll be able to do, which you guys have already mentioned.

More than I worry about it cheapening an art form, I worry that the disappointment a confused first-timer faces might put them off of something that could be deeply rewarding if they only knew it takes effort and dedication.

Though I'm not a contact juggler either, I still find the marketing tacky and dependent on marketing it to people who don't really understand the art.


p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s

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Felex
Felex

Destroyer of worlds and ooo shiny.
Location: In my own head
Member Since: 1st Jun 2009
Total posts: 268
Posted:Well that was Painful. Funny, Disturbing, and a load of other things mixed in with it. Will let you know what I think when Ive got my head round it.

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Felex
Felex

Destroyer of worlds and ooo shiny.
Location: In my own head
Member Since: 1st Jun 2009
Total posts: 268
Posted:Mom I want a Fushigi!

Mom this ones broke it does not work!

Magic gravity ball my ass! Think I agree with you on that one.


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hamamelis
hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.
Member Since: 5th Jan 2006
Total posts: 756
Posted:*calls Trading Standards*

THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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Puff
Puff

The Magic Dragon
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Member Since: 10th Jun 2007
Total posts: 134
Posted:Mom I want a fushigi!

*Leaves fushigi on sofa, sun comes in through open window, burns down house and next door orphanage*

The opinion of quite a few people that I've gathered from other forums is that people will buy them, realise the balls don't levitate by themselves and figure that contact jugg...sorry, fushigi...ing sounds like too much hard work.

One of the issues I see is that you never really have any respect for those lame products you see on infomercials. It may end up putting contact juggling in the same vein as shamwow and oxiclean.


Let my words, dear friends, be treasures. Weightless golden butterflies that hang before your eyes for seconds, then are gone. But the dust of truth and beauty that their wingbeats leave behind will settle on your soul and make you happy. - Edward Monkton

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:I can so see that story with the couch happening laugh3

I want to know where in hell did they get the name Fushigi? It sounds like something off of a crappy anime.


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:If I recall, it's japanese for "weird", more or less. Could be misremembering.

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:I just love the "first time users" on 0:45 laugh3

"NO TRICKS!" ??? true, it's "JUST SKILLS!" wink

I adore Americans for their advertisement ethics... all the time they go this fine-print in the picture umm

It may read something like "suckers!"

cool


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:I notice that they do call it a form of contact juggling on their website. shrug

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:... when in reality it is a magic ball. wink

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Terrible, terrible advert.
They're not even acrylics, they're polycarbs which is a bit poo.

They seem to be already back-tracking:
Originally Posted By: Fushigi Farcebook page
"The Ultimate "Contact Juggling Ball" for beginners


and
Originally Posted By: Fushigi Farcebook page
fushigi invites energetic and civil debate while looking forward to consumer feedback to this amazing art


Tacky as hell, but in the scheme of things I don't think it'll make much difference to the art as a whole - other than possibly increase the respect for people who do it once they realise how hard it actually is.


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Zephyre Phoenix
Zephyre Phoenix

Familiar stranger giving out popcorn. (formerly Ascilith)
Location: Lawrence, KS
Member Since: 1st Nov 2009
Total posts: 1264
Posted:B*TCH SLAP THEM! I agree with the others that say it'll cheapen the art. People spend a lot of time on this... And... Fushigi...? Let's give a respectable art form a cheap, gimmicky name... Mother censored

Never take candy from strangers...... But popcorn is okay!

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Puff
Puff

The Magic Dragon
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Member Since: 10th Jun 2007
Total posts: 134
Posted:Originally Posted By: astonI notice that they do call it a form of contact juggling on their website. shrug

Only after a very eloquently worded letter from one of the guys on cj.org

Originally Posted By: Sister Eleven If I recall, it's japanese for "weird", more or less.

Pretty much. A wonder; a mystery; a miracle or something. A quote from the man behind the plan RE: branding.

Originally Posted By: John the fushigi guy In short, we debated at great length regarding making reference to "contact juggling" but i am still concerned that the very name itself diminishes the perceived beauty of the art. (Yet "magic gravity ball" doesn't...)

This should probably be in social discussion now that I think about it... HEY MODS!

What would you guys think if poi were marketed this way? Would you do the commercial for a wad of benjamins?


Let my words, dear friends, be treasures. Weightless golden butterflies that hang before your eyes for seconds, then are gone. But the dust of truth and beauty that their wingbeats leave behind will settle on your soul and make you happy. - Edward Monkton

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:Originally Posted By: AscilithB*TCH SLAP THEM! I agree with the others that say it'll cheapen the art. People spend a lot of time on this... And... Fushigi...? Let's give a respectable art form a cheap, gimmicky name... Mother censored
Well put. That gimmicky name pissed me off along with making it sound like anyone can contact juggle (I refuse to say Fushigi) their first time.

In my mind, these things can't be a successful marketing thing because it takes a lot of practice and skill, which is not the kind of thing you want to market like that because people figure out it's not magic and you can't actually do it.


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:Originally Posted By: PuffWhat would you guys think if poi were marketed this way? Would you do the commercial for a wad of benjamins?

How large a wad of benjamins? Because I do have my price.

In all seriousness, though, I find it bothersome enough when people just see me spinning and decide they could never do it themselves. I would be really annoyed at people having apparent evidence of their inability ("I had a pair of Fushigi Poi and they didn't work at all!") because of some unscrupulous advertiser.

Incidentally, I have helped market poi for a local student startup here in Seattle (unpaid because I do like the product), and the toughest part of getting people interested is that they either already know, or quickly discover, that it's not really easy, and that's that. Nobody likes the sound of hard work even if it's fun. Thankfully this company never marketed it as being easy; quite the opposite, they cited the range of tricks to learn and the satisfaction of meeting the challenges of poi.

I just don't think skill toys are the kinds of things you can present as "toys", at least not to a culture whose general idea of entertainment is to passively absorb light and sound from something someone else is doing. (A quote I love from a David Mamet film: "Everybody makes their own fun. If you don't make it yourself, it ain't fun, it's entertainment.") I don't think there's anything about these arts that needs to stay confined to a minority of dedicated practitioners (I would actually love it if more people got into poi, as long as they understood what kind of art it was)--but I think they are, for the meantime, going to stay with such a dedicated minority. You can't fix what restricts it to special enclaves with silly branding and misleading advertising.

My, but I do go on.


p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s

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Puff
Puff

The Magic Dragon
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Member Since: 10th Jun 2007
Total posts: 134
Posted:There's a 16 page discussion here http://www.contactjuggling.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7708
which I've been quoting. It's quite interesting to watch how opinions pan out over time. I'm still not sure what I think. I start thinking that it could be good for the community (more jugglers more skill blah blah) but then I can't get past the cheap plastic-ness of the whole thing.
Maybe it will make jugglers step up? Once the average joe has a 20 buck ball and dvd and can do basic isolations and enigmas we won't be able to use those as draw cards for street shows. Just a thought.


Let my words, dear friends, be treasures. Weightless golden butterflies that hang before your eyes for seconds, then are gone. But the dust of truth and beauty that their wingbeats leave behind will settle on your soul and make you happy. - Edward Monkton

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:I have no problem with the kind of advertising you just described. I also love that quote to death now grin Also, I rediscovered my glowsticks and have found I can magically do a lot of wraps, so let practice begin! Hopefully, or I forget about it again.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Originally Posted By: PuffOriginally Posted By: John the fushigi guy In short, we debated at great length regarding making reference to "contact juggling" but i am still concerned that the very name itself diminishes the perceived beauty of the art. (Yet "magic gravity ball" doesn't...)

This should probably be in social discussion now that I think about it... HEY MODS!

What would you guys think if poi were marketed this way? Would you do the commercial for a wad of benjamins?

for one: this should be in SD or Technical (but maybe wouldn't receive as much responses).

for second: this ad is actually a fusion of "homeshopping TV" and one of the best examples of USAmerican bulls I witnessed.

It's the attempt to brand an entire (juggling) artform and I'm confused to the point where they "debated at great length regarding making reference to "contact juggling" but i am still concerned that the very name itself diminishes the perceived beauty of the art." Like the name "FUSHIGI!" wouldn't...

It's much like if I would make a million "balls on strings", invite some good spinners, make a video and call the stuff "Tomsons (balls on strings)" - debating making references to "Poi" but being 'concerned that it would diminish the perceived beauty of the art (of making money)'...

My advice would be to make a counter-video and post it on YouTube, informing people about contact juggling, how much practice it requires and how many decades it is already around for. Best would be to find someone who can shout as loud and tacky as this guy.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Puff
Puff

The Magic Dragon
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Member Since: 10th Jun 2007
Total posts: 134
Posted:Aye I should have put it in SD, hence the "hey mods" holler.

As far as making a counter video goes, I'm not sure how effective that would be. This guys sounds like big brass. The commercial will be airing on mtv, espn and other networks apparently.

I would be less upset if all he was marketing was "Fushigi" brand acrylics but yes, you're right, it does seem like he's trying to re-brand contact juggling. (Which to be fair is a re-brand of Dynamic Manipulation). However, I don't think his intention is to re-brand the art and I'm sure he did not set about this venture to offend anyone. He probably had no idea there would be such a reaction from the contact juggling community. From his posts on cj.org he seems willing to at least talk to people. Time will tell if he makes any changes or not


Let my words, dear friends, be treasures. Weightless golden butterflies that hang before your eyes for seconds, then are gone. But the dust of truth and beauty that their wingbeats leave behind will settle on your soul and make you happy. - Edward Monkton

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:not sure about that.. Google "Fushigi" and all you get is the Manga comic series... when getting deeper into it, the FB group turns up with only one discussion thread.. or it's further pointing at the discussions in the juggling forum/ HoP here.

Not sure why you feel that "these guys are big brass" and what exactly you mean by that. I say: Never underestimate the power of a community... wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:Originally Posted By: Puff I start thinking that it could be good for the community (more jugglers more skill blah blah) but then I can't get past the cheap plastic-ness of the whole thing.
Maybe it will make jugglers step up? Once the average joe has a 20 buck ball and dvd and can do basic isolations and enigmas we won't be able to use those as draw cards for street shows. Just a thought.

That came up when I was discussing this thread with a friend. Maybe some people who would have never tried it otherwise will take a shot at it only because it's marketed as fun and easy. And some will be disappointed or frustrated, but maybe it wasn't for them anyway (no judgment on that; I just recognize that people have differing priorities on where to put their time and effort). And maybe some people will really get into it who would have never tried it to begin with if it hadn't been so presented. I also think for as many people as it might attract to the art form, it might also drive some away who might have been interested if it had been cast in a different light (if it had been made to seem more serious and more creative, or some such).

In the long run, I think the whole thing is pretty harmless. I don't think we're going to see contact juggling balls being a new fad as a result (though I can't say I'd complain too much if they were), and I think it will continue to appeal to the same people it would have appealed to anyway. My main objections are I think A) an aesthetic one against the tackiness of the campaign, and B) that I think skill toys should make people happy and I wouldn't want a campaign like this to inadvertently pervert that end (though it may not).


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hamamelis
hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.
Member Since: 5th Jan 2006
Total posts: 756
Posted:I really, really hate the 'magic gravity ball' slogan, but thinking about it, I can think of a few +es and -es if it does take off..

+ potentially more people getting into it, some of whom will hopefully do New and Exciting things,
+ second hand acrylics from the people who buy 'em, realise it's hard, and give up wink (Durbs, where did you hear they were polycarbs? Everyone on .org who was involved in the ad was saying they were decent quality acrylics..)
+ I will suddenly become an Old School Experienced Person, rather than a pretty rubbish newb,
- People who just see the ad and believe the 'it's so easy!!!!' message are going to be that bit more difficult for performers to impress (oh, he just got one of those magic balls, that stuff's real easy). Could make a big difference for those (not me) who actually get paid for their skills,
- Only things which come into fashion can go out of fashion,
- It's a really stupid sounding name, which I would prefer not to have to hear very often.


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:The website says "The Fushigi Magic Gravity Ball is made of solid poly resin plastic"
I guess acrylic is poly resin too, so might've got this mixed up.


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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hamamelis
hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.
Member Since: 5th Jan 2006
Total posts: 756
Posted:Ah. thought you might be a secret double agent there, accidently letting slip more than you should.

Guess I'd better put down the pitchfork...


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:and I got to revise my earlier thoughts...

it's just a tacky TV ad and by dragging it across all discussion boards it might receive a lot more attention than it is worth...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Sister Eleven
Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2009
Total posts: 1277
Posted:Originally Posted By: FireTomand I got to revise my earlier thoughts...

it's just a tacky TV ad and by dragging it across all discussion boards it might receive a lot more attention than it is worth...

Maybe this was their real marketing strategy.... ninja


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Puff
Puff

The Magic Dragon
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Member Since: 10th Jun 2007
Total posts: 134
Posted:Originally Posted By: Sister ElevenOriginally Posted By: FireTomand I got to revise my earlier thoughts...

it's just a tacky TV ad and by dragging it across all discussion boards it might receive a lot more attention than it is worth...

Maybe this was their real marketing strategy.... ninja

Bah! Foiled! Or maybe I'm secretly a Fushigi spy...

Originally Posted By: FireTom not sure about that.. Google "Fushigi" and all you get is the Manga comic series... when getting deeper into it, the FB group turns up with only one discussion thread.. or it's further pointing at the discussions in the juggling forum/ HoP here.

Not sure why you feel that "these guys are big brass" and what exactly you mean by that. I say: Never underestimate the power of a community...

This http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/09/prweb2956834.htm
br>
He may not be saatchi and saatchi but this ain't the first thing he's done.


Let my words, dear friends, be treasures. Weightless golden butterflies that hang before your eyes for seconds, then are gone. But the dust of truth and beauty that their wingbeats leave behind will settle on your soul and make you happy. - Edward Monkton

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