• You must now select Courier Delivery if you wish to receive items before Christmas.
 

Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Fundamentally Incompatible Grips

Login/Join to Participate

EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:I'm surprised there isn't a topic for this but when attempting to do a spiral wrap I came across and old adversary which is my preferred grip. I'm not sure if this is just a question or an observation, but hopefully I can get some answers here because it applies to many classes of moves including beginner ones and is important for transitions.

My preferred grip is with a single loop handle going over my 3 middle fingers and flipped up and under between my index and middle finger just above my first knuckle (almost dead center of my fingers with the edge of the digits holding them secure) this grip is just not working for a spiral wrap so I moved it all the way up towards where my fingers meet my hand with much more success (not there yet but atleast the chains have something to actually wrap around.

This is most uncomfortable and I cannot imagine having to change my grip repeatedly during a spin session (especially a burn) to do different movement classes let alone make a seamless routine with no intermittent moments if I have to keep changing my grip.

So the question is basically is there an absolute all purpose grip and if not how does one change it for the moves required to be done and keep transitioning fluid?


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Delete Topic

triptrician
SILVER Member since Feb 2010

UFO Spotting
Location: Queensland, Australia

Total posts: 350
Posted:When i first started to learn spirals i found i was having the same issue with my grips not being far enough up my fingers.

I will try and explain this as best i can. When i set up to wrap i keep my hands perpundicular(sp?) to the ground and my thumbs on the inside of my hand. as the poi reach 12 and 6(just before it starts to wrap) i use my thumbs to pull them right into that crook where my fingers meet my hand and i find it wraps nicely around my knuckles.

now i have blabbed i will actually answer your question. i dont believe there is such thing as an all purpose grip just learning to adjust to whats comfortable for you whilst transition.

P>S i checked your vid out last night nice work could definately see you start to get comfortable towards the end. Well done *cheers and claps:


would rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me than a frontal lobotomy

"The dangers of life are infinate and among them is safety"(geothe)

Delete

EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:So I guess this is a take time to find the easiest way to adjust them? I know that to give different areas a break I will change my grip in the pendulum position and get back to my burn since long skinny fingers tire out a TON!!! I never thought to use my thumb in the assist. When my swelling goes down I'll give it one more try before I go back to seemingly safer territory for the double jointed. *has ouchie hands*

I know for say butterfly motions I like the grip as far to the end of my fingers as possible but for weaving I like the grip to be closer to the next knuckle further back to give it some "umph!" and be able to make a fist to increase the speed at will. Thought this would be a good topic to explore on this particular board! yes

And thanks much for checking out my video Trip! Slow and steady she goes, can't wait til I get the guts to do my windmill and windmill extensions with flame... I feel like I'm learning 2 separate arts! It's hard not to get ahead of myself with all the balancing I need to do. grin


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Delete

triptrician
SILVER Member since Feb 2010

UFO Spotting
Location: Queensland, Australia

Total posts: 350
Posted:yeah i know the feeling about two seperate arts. my fireperformances tend to get a bit boggy with the same moves not because i dont have others in my repitoire its just cause i dont have the guts to pull them off lit. in regards to the handles i have come to love the ball handles cause adjusting them with your thumb is heaps intuitive once you get used to them.

That suckks about your fingers swelling and blistering. the first week i had my poi i bought shares in band-aids


would rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me than a frontal lobotomy

"The dangers of life are infinate and among them is safety"(geothe)

Delete

Microwe
BRONZE Member since Jul 2010

Spin. Eat. Sleep. Rinse, Repeat.
Location: Minnesota, USA.

Total posts: 24
Posted:Originally Posted By: triptricianThat suckks about your fingers swelling and blistering. the first week i had my poi i bought shares in band-aids

Good idea man..I'll have to buy some..


"There's an inverse relationship between how good something is for you, and how much fun it is."
"Idiocy is the essence of the male mind."
"Interesting. No, wait, the other thing...Tedious."

Delete

Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Probably a mass generalisation, but I'd say "most" advanced spinners I know don't use finger loops for this reason, or those that do, wear the loops then hold the poi in a different grip.

Quite a few moves require slightly different grips, so many find being stuck in the same grip of finger loops (whether single or double) a little too restricting.

Originally Posted By: EoN
I cannot imagine having to change my grip repeatedly during a spin session (especially a burn) to do different movement classes let alone make a seamless routine with no intermittent moments if I have to keep changing my grip.

Best start imagining wink
Though in truth, I reckon you could do most moves either in the loops (poi coming out perpendicular to the back of your hands) or a pinch grip (fingers pinching the chain/cord) which are easy to swich between.


Having said that, I don't think your grip would stop you doing spiral wraps but don't have poi at hand to try with smile


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

Delete

EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:Hmmm sounds like I need to learn control in ways I don't grip anything else...

I saw Nick's grip for spiral wraps and honestly have no control with the poi chain coming out from between my ring and pinky fingers just to make a regular spin. It just feels very unnatural.

I struggle with the pinch grip but almost have a decent buzzsaw, I'm not sure if it's my fingernails or if I don't have the chain coming out at the right angle with the pinch. Perhaps if I knew exactly how to pinch something it's wouldn't be all awkward and uneven feeling with the angles.

Perhaps a guide of all possible holding positions similar to a guitar chords chart would be a good invention... smile


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Delete

EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:Originally Posted By: DurbsHaving said that, I don't think your grip would stop you doing spiral wraps but don't have poi at hand to try with smile

Let me know if it's doable, but I think I'm going to use some sense and not repeat anything that pops my fingers from the sockets. There is a good chance that certain moves should not be done by a double jointed person and the hand and elbow pain aren't worth it.

Both all of my knuckles and elbows hyper extend (bend backwards 90 degrees more than they should with no feeling a "pull" in the ligaments and tendons) in everyday situations not flailing about weighty objects, I have to be careful when simply leaning on things or not being mindful of unhealthy motion that I can't even feel until it's two late. Not everyone has this issue but anyone who has a history of it might want to rethink a few things or strength train if they're naturally a little too "Gumby like"!

I'm still in pain from last nights attempts so having very heavy things propelled from my fingertips wrapping and jerking alone may have alone been the error, I'm curious to hear if you can make it work and if any strain or comfort issue was noticeable while using my standard grip.


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Delete

SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009

SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA

Total posts: 2280
Posted:When I use double loops I can still do spirals the same way I do when I use a key grip smirk I'm not sure what incompatible grips there are if that's what you mean.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

Delete

EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:Might help if I knew what a key grip looks like and I mean in general not only for this one move.

It made me look back and remember the alterations I've needed to do on other moves. I'll take a pic of my grip since so far I have not met anyone else who uses it...


Non-Https Image Link

Non-Https Image Link

Non-Https Image Link


Please note that with barely and pressure all of my knuckles, wrists, and elbows bend backward with little to no effort so regardless of your thinking anyone can do anything SoD there are many reasons why extra care should be taken especially for double jointed/long ligament people so the don't have long term damage. I have more injuries from dance, gymnastics, show jumping, skateboarding, and snowboarding than I care to count that do not involve "fall down, go boom" just from not paying attention to strain I cannot feel.

Anyone with a history should really take more care and not submit to peer pressure in these matters for their health.

Once again if my grip can be used with little to no strain I would love to know about it! grin

EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1278621282)
EDIT_REASON: added grip pics + a disclaimer for anyone who ran into double jointed whoopsies


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Delete

SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009

SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA

Total posts: 2280
Posted:Key grip is holding it between tour thumb and pointer finger (like you hold a key)

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

Delete

EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:Yup I avoid the key grip at all costs (my thumb is my easiest digit to dislocate) plus I have no control of my planes either.

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Delete

EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:Oh I have a good grip question to add and then off to remedy my spasm ridden muscles with some yoga and contemporary warm up (Graham) technique...

When shortening chains and going into a key grip what is the ideal amount of slack around your hand and where is the chain ideally feeding through (out through finger tips, toward the side, pinch closer to knuckles/pads, etc.)?


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Delete

AlienJon
GOLD Member since Mar 2002

AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere, USA

Total posts: 290
Posted:Get used to switching grips as you flow. I do it dynamically as I spin. Also get used to dynamically wrapping/unwrapping to shorten/lengthen your poi.

Sorry to hear about the complications your double jointedness causes.

1st suggestion: With any grip, especially a new one you are trying out, focus on spinning slowly, and as smooth & effortless as possible. Your goal is to keep a relaxed and supple grip, without heavy pinching and muscle strain. Try to find the path of least resistance: get your wrist, carpuls, and meta carpuls to undulate together with your arms such that all joints share the load proportionately. It's like tai-chi for your hands: "when one part moves, all parts move in equilibrium".

Duly noted with your thumbs ease of dissolution, but I think if you approach the "key grip" with patients and care, you will warm up to it. I use it, but anchor my poi with loops hanging from palm down, around my middle 2 fingers. Maybe you could anchor the same way you do (around middle 3 fingers), but hanging down from your palm, like my preferred anchoring.

When I spin in a relaxed manner with this grip, my thumb barely touches the poi at all. It is there more as a guide, even though technically I am in a "key grip" position.

If you get used to using this anchoring, you can dynamically switch to a variety of other grips, and positions.





+Alien Jon

Delete

SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009

SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA

Total posts: 2280
Posted:I use that same grip except I crimp it to my hands. I often use no fingers to guide and just have an open palm. I can't really ever say I put stress on my thumb. As Jon said, it's just there as a guide.

Also sorry to hear about the double jointed thing, that sucks.

EDITED_BY: SpinnerofDetroit (1278855685)


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

Delete

Sister Eleven
GOLD Member since Aug 2009

Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Total posts: 1277
Posted:I change grips constantly as I spin, especially with throws and spiral wraps. It becomes natural with a bit of practice, even though it sounds tricky. My usual method is to hold my handle against my palm with my thumb so I can open my hand. Once I have it spinning there, I can snag it between any fingers I want. Though I should note I don't usually use finger loops, or I seldom bother getting back into them if I take my fingers out for a grip change. I'm an advocate of the ball grip.

p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s

Delete

brenonfire413
SILVER Member since Dec 2009

brenonfire413

Fire Spinner Exarch
Location: New Orleans, LA United States,...

Total posts: 514
Posted:Yeah I upgraded to a ball grip and it's forced me to change grips to be able to execute wraps and such. You'll get used to it.

"Are you sure it's safe to drink bleach?"
"Yes, bleach is 90% water, we are 90% water, therefore: we are bleach."
-Nathan Explosion, Metalocalypse

Delete

SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009

SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA

Total posts: 2280
Posted:I have to change grips to do the continuous spiral and a couple other things but other than that I just change at will grin

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

Delete

EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:Okay so it's not a vice grip like holding a pen or pencil...

I'll do some work with switching between simplistically and holding more gently. I don't think a ball handle is a good idea for me thus yet as I have enough to think about without having to hold onto the poi for dear life. I need them anchored to me for freedom and to be an extension of my body. A clunky thing like ball handles sounds like a nightmare for spiral wraps, I have a hard enough time slapping my hands together without wooden knobs in my way. Working with single loops I think is how I'm going to have the level of freedom I really care about which is to have as little to think about consciously as possible.

If I can somehow gain control in alternate positions I'll see where I advance from there, I know I want a comfy key grip so I can buzzsaw without excruciating thumb and palm pain at a bare minimum. I'll try this anchor through the bottom then grab/feed where you need to method.


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Delete

aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Knobs do not get that much in the way for spiral wraps. Or at least not once you have the hang of them. smile

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

Delete