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Posted: Originally Posted By: Charlie FoxOriginally Posted By: TankboyOH FOR GODS SAKE! DO NOT BREATHE FIRE WITH NAPTHA!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!
Read a bit closer their big fellah, she's referring to fire EATING, not breathing
I am aware of the original post, but her last post said
Originally Posted By: MsVanitysomething else i wanted to ask! I bought a paraffin from the market that in greek writting "paraffin" and i ve checked the instructions and it wrotes "naptha". My partner that checked it, she could do bigger Fire Breathing with this oil!
this whole thread has been very clear about the distinction between fire breathing and human candle...the way this is phrased makes me think that she can blow bigger plumes with naptha....no ...she can also blow back in an instant.
It's a catch all word for a flammable hydrocarbon although I agree it is normally used as a byword for gasoline or aviation fuels. I think the problem here is a slight language difference, Vanity is after all Greek, no need to panic Naptha would be the Greek word for parafin and we've all fire-breathed using that
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
Posted: Yes, if "zipoil" and Zippo lighter fluid are the same thing, then it is naphtha, the same as white gas (or Colemans camp stove fuel)
There's always confusion around fuel names and most fuels are a mixture of short and long chain hydrocarbon. As far as these arts are concerned, naphtha *usually* means a mixture of shorter hydrocarbon chemicals with some bonus aromatic hydrocarbon ring chemicals thrown in making them more toxic ( carcinogenic) than longer chain mixtures, like kerosene, aka paraffin, aka lamp oil.
A goo way to tell what you're dealing with is to take a small amount of the fuel and pour it onto your hand. Does it evaporate quickly and give a cooling sensation like alcohol does ? If so then it's a naphtha. Or does it leave an oily residue that lingers for hours and has to be washed off ? If so then it's a long chain hydrocarbon fuel like kerosene.
Torches will burn longer (slightly) with a long chain fuel, but they'll smoke more and be black and stinky after the burn. Naphtha will leave them "clean" and odourless after use but it's a far more dangerous fuel to use especially in an indoor environment as the vapours are highly flammable and may be ignited by a heat source several meters away from the fuelled props.
Naphtha is the stuff that goes BOOM!!! and should be treated in the same way you would treat gasoline.
Posted: Yep, white gas and naphtha are the same, at least for the purposes of this discussion and these arts. The key thing here is safety with the acknowledgement that some fuels are safer, especially for indoor use, than others.
That wikipedia article is *kind of* misleading when it comes to what we're doing here. Technically it's correct however it's that division, or range of properties that *we* consider important that should be focused on rather than the technical aspects of hydrocarbon chemistry.
Paraffinic naphtha may exist, but it's a term that only leads to confusion.
Yes, Zippo may have naphtha and "other stuff" that other stuff being super short chain hydrocarbons like propane and butane plus some bonus aromatic hydrocarbon.
Even the manufacturers aren't sure *exactly* what's in their fuels and rather than measure them by their individual chemical constituents, they tend to define them on their physical properties, like vapour pressure and flash point.
IMO the evaporation test that I described in my previous post is the best measure of determining what it is you're dealing with.
Barbecue lighter fluid is a mix of naphtha and a long chain fuel, so it's technically "safer" than Zippo, but it still goes boom if improperly handled.
Posted: So there are many more safety issues to consider, other than the catastrophic stuff goes BOOM! situation.
Naptha and paraffin are not the same thing.
First of all, Naptha is very easily absorbed through the skin, and is quite carcinogenic...that means it gives you cancer. holding this in your mouth for any period of time is a bad idea, hell, doing tongue transfers and fleshing is marginally bad for you in the long run.
But here is the BIG issue, imo. Naptha based fuels burn as a vapor. Much like alcohol. This means that you dont have to be able to see any fuel between your plume and your face for the fire to blow back.
This is EXTREMELY hazardous to your health. Not only is your face on fire, but the chance of you inhaling atomized fuel, naptha vapors, and burning gasses is pretty damn high. This can lead to coma and or death.
please have your friend who breathes fire read pele's article, and to research fuels before she puts em in her mouth.
This thread worries me so much. The knowledge of these people, who are working as professional fire performers, is pitiful. Its an embarrassment to the community.
Posted: i see about white gas! i ll ask about barbecue lighter fluid, i hope i ll find it...
relax tankboy, the most jugglers i know they dont know the half of it and they dont interesting to learn. you should think positive that they are people that they opening topics to learn stuff, instead worrying
i know that arent the same (parafin+naptha) . The point is that paraffin i found that was writing naptha,maybe the translation was wrong or something...
if zippo lighter fluid is dangerous,what are you suggest to use for fire eating and vapor tricks?
Posted: this thread has little to nothing to do with it's original topic but is an extended "Hi here I am, this is what I do, look at me" thread.
Tankboy, no hate from my side
Ms. Vanity: It's kind-of sad that it really appears as if you're bettering your act using fire. It can be regarded as "giving (both 'trades') a bad name"... I'm trying to find encouraging words but that vid really is ... crap. I'm saddened to find another (young) woman who is so insecure of her self and unexperienced in her talents that she needs to use her gender and (semi/naked) body in order to catch attention/ make a buck.
It's more saddening that some guys are so utterly stupid as to find this "sexy" and are even willing to pay money watching this.
To sum it up: There's a lot of room for improvement. Please, you can do much better than this.
Posted: I'd like to add that I find nothing wrong with an "erotic" act and women being playful with it... but there is a difference of quality... like in playing with Diesel or Premium.
I side Stout - the pictures are really nice and maybe a lot of the overall ambiance of the venue you performed at and the audience you performed for affected the way you artistically expressed yourself.
I'm sure that with more practice your performance will look a lot different.
Posted: I'm saddened to find another (young) woman who is so insecure of her self and unexperienced in her talents that she needs to use her gender and (semi/naked) body in order to catch attention/ make a buck.
------------------------------------------------------------- fire tom, try to understand few things about me
I m a hard worker, I m working about 8years as graphic-web designer and that's my job except my dance performances. And the last thing that i am its insecure.I consider my self as artist and what i love is all forms of art!
I also love making construction like my fire umbrella+fire sword
About the money it's not a buck,its lot more
-------------------------------------------------------------- "that some guys are so utterly stupid as to find this "sexy" and are even willing to pay money watching this."
I m not working at strip clubs or something I have co-operate only with huge clubs,festivals,theaters and band lives in greece and out of greece
For me its art not a cheap sexy performance as you think! ---------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------- To sum it up: There's a lot of room for improvement. Please, you can do much better than this. --------------------------------------------------------------- Improvement is the reason that i m in this site !!!!
anyway check my new promo if you want to,i m sure that you ll have a lot of free time for critics
Posted: People, to add my 2 cents worth, performers like Ms Vanity are rare here in Greece, I am not trying to defend or condemn the way she goes about doing that, I just genuinely believe she is here to learn and better herself.
Posted: sorry sweetheart but my time is extremely limited, so this is only because you directly address me:
I'm writing my critique(s) solely based upon my personal experience.
Watching your previous vids gave me the impression of someone bettering her acts by leaving away (protective) clothing and adding fire as a catchy gadget. That's your choice. Neither can or do I want to limit you. But I do voice my opinion...
If I remember correctly your performance had elements of a strip show and took place in a BDSM environment - please correct me if I'm wrong.
Neither do I oppose strip shows, nor BDSM - every body as they please. It only is towards "the art of fire performance" which my interest and attention goes.
I do hold resentments when used in such context - foremost because I am certain that IT IS NOT NECESSARY! A woman in a half-way revealing outfit manipulating fire toys ALREADY stimulates the senses enough... (at least mine ) there's no need to push sex in everybody's face along with it... (the capital letters only for emphasis, not meant as yelling ) Sex sells, but it leads to the objectification of females in our society, watching them exposing themselves for fame or money.
My questions are:
Where will it lead to? Will we soon have xxx-rated performances incorporating fire? Is that what we want (to promote)?
You find your niche - and the BDSM and semi-pron corner is certainly a rewarding one. It's your choice, Vanity. For me it's not even about "bettering your self" (or your performance) - it's more about: If you can't make it in front of a professional (fire) audience... like on a convention - why bother at all?
Posted: fire tom> I m reading carefully your answers, i dont know very well english but i m understanding 99% of what's you re writting...and you re reffering too many times the word "bdsm"! I M NOT DOING BDSM! lol i have done at the past few fetish performances and bdsm its not my speciality.
secondly WE HAVENT BDSM CLUBS IN GREECE or enviroments
I love fire art and i want to be better and improve my shows I like sexy outfits but that doesnt make me a stripper
so if i am a fire-stripper performer what is this?
the purpose of any show its to entertain the audience, you may be a juggler,stripper,dancer or clown! you are an entertainer! Its not only about the skill,its the way you re presenting your show,having an intro,nice costumes,dance skils and a good finale!no one get excited if seen someone just juggling and juggling and that's all!
anyway if you want check my new promo,i hope you ll find more interesting than the other videos:
lefteris> that's true! i want to improve my work and learn.
Posted: Ms. Vanity. I get you. Some people dont but I totally understand you. Fire is art, its passion its a new way of looking at things. Art has many sides including sex, darkness along with MANY other things. I like to dress up myself. Y not?? You can become your alter ego while doing this! Your learning as everyone is, do we ever stop? NO! Everyone has more to learn. I just wanted to throw that out there. I think its awesome and your performances look great.
I would however like to see the meltable material held to a minimum simply because I would like to see you continuing to do what you do so be careful there
Posted: Originally Posted By: MsVsecondly WE HAVENT BDSM CLUBS IN GREECE or enviroments
That seems not to be true, Van. I get a few results when checking online.
However - if you really understand what I am writing then you know that my words are not addressed personally.
Yes, I see your shows are improving. I'm not sure what the grinding part between your legs is trying to suggest but well, not everything has to suit my taste.
I myself did two shows for the BDSM scene (one for the Bondage boat and one for a private BDSM party in Munich). I found many of the people quite normal - apart from their sexuality. A few characters were on some planet way outside my horizon and I was not eager to do more in this ambiance, though I could have.
Foremost: I wouldn't have to wear anything fetish or turn my performance sexual in any way. They were quite happy with my routine. A routine I would perform for any other audience...
Watching the link you provided it seems to me that someone is just being a nude fire performer... not a stripper - unless these are scenes of a bigger show and we missed the stripping part.
Not sure whether this vid is PG - we had others - pictures with brief nudity of a Poi performer that weren't. Please keep content PG.
The purpose is to entertain - fully agree. You like sexy outfits - so do I
But I bet your performance are no ways less if you would wear a less revealing outfit and would not attempt to walk the road of connecting fire-performance with sexuality.
Thanks again for the link to the naked fire performer. This is exactly down the line where I wouldn't want to see fire performance go. Maybe it will, but that just looks to me as if someone is trying to better their naked act by incorporating fire.
And one reason I don't support this is because I wouldn't want to think people of strippers and such, when looking at a woman spinning poi in the park...
"She was young - and she needed the money," is one quote that comes to mind "there is a sucker born every minute," is the other one...
[ed]Not saying you're a sucker... I guess you don't feel taken advantage of. Maybe this is to express what you enjoy expressing and that too is okay for me...