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Forums > Other Toys > Folding Finger Spinning Fire Fans

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Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:Hi All, I'm a bit quiet on these forums, but in short, my names Charlie, and i design and build fire toys, the one i make for HoP is the folding fire fan HERE.

I have decided to start my own thread rather than continue to hi-jack an assortment of other peoples threads on fire fans.

What i have been working on for some time is a folding finger spinning fire fan, this has been a 2 year project (along with about 8 other projects I'm working on simultaneously).

It was set to be released on March the 1st, however about one week out from the release date i hit a sizable snag, the company that produces the springs I use on the fans could not physically produce the spring they had sent me samples of.

WARNING - Tech Speak
The spring needed for the finger spinning version of the fire fan needed to be almost twice as strong as the standard spring to fight the effects of inertia while spinning (or simply, they have to be stronger so the fan doesn't just close as it spins). The samples had been hand made, which produced a tighter coil with higher initial tension than the machine which was going to do the mass run.
/Tech Speak

So, that said, this design is delayed indefinitely until i can find a company that has a single point coiling machine, or can hand coil me 100m+ for a reasonable price, as the alternatives to not having a stronger spring make an expensive prop even more expensive (around a 50% increase in the price as opposed to a 15% or 20%).

I'll post updates here as they happen, as well as a sneak peak photo and maybe a video of the prototype i made with the sample springs.


One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


hexacoto
stranger

Member Since: 17th Jun 2009
Total posts: 14
Posted:So if it's single-spring, would it have the problem of closing when you spin it, as you highlighted earlier in creating the fan? Also, how much cheaper would single-springs be?

Still excited for this!



Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:The spin single spring is a stronger spring that the non-spring fan, so no, closing is not an issue.

As for price, it's looking like it will be very similar in cost to the non-spin fan,


One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


Zephyre Phoenix
Zephyre Phoenix

Familiar stranger giving out popcorn. (formerly Ascilith)
Location: Lawrence, KS
Member Since: 1st Nov 2009
Total posts: 1264
Posted:Beautiful. I have a friend that would be interested in these.

Never take candy from strangers...... But popcorn is okay!


Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:Hello Faithful Listeners, er, i mean, Watchers, well readers...

Anywho.

To cut a long story short the release has been held up as i've been sent away for a month on course for my day job, fun fun... kinda.

The upside of the trip is i've had a lot of time to think over the design and have a number of additional improvements in mind for their eventual release, of which i'm not going to name a date this time as the last 3 times i've given dates it hasn't happened, so the next time i discuss their release, it will have happened ;o)

The priority for improvement on this design is to find a cheaper way to attach the wick, as currently, that's a very large cost due to the labor involved in stitching them on, but i am against wiring or bolting, or anything else that leaves a lot of metal exposed, but i have some other ideas which will be tested out when iget back in the workshop on the 5th of July.

Though other non priorities have been addressed like making them a little slimmer in the hand holding area, and possible pimping my workshop with a stamping/cutting tool to make the blades quicker, cleaner, and more accurate to produce, and therfore drop the price even further, though this is a US$1000 investment so will probably happen after i get a chance to assess how popular they are likely to become.


One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


hexacoto
stranger

Member Since: 17th Jun 2009
Total posts: 14
Posted:Ooh now that you're going back to the drawing board, I've got a question to ask: Is the fan going to be flat-ish at the base or will it be more like a 'V'? Cos flat-base fans are just a little weird to handle and spin (though it's probably an issue of getting used to) and fans that are flat at the bottom, in my opinion, doesn't looks as good when splayed out.

i.e (ASCII art attack!)

\ | | / ...looks weird. Kinda. Or maybe it's just my shitty
.\| |/ ASCII art
--- ---
./| |\
/ | | \



hexacoto
stranger

Member Since: 17th Jun 2009
Total posts: 14
Posted:Also, in reply to the news of the delay of the fans:

=(



Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:you know its funny you should ask that...

The team at HoP were quite interested in seeing the span drop from 180deg, or flat as you say, to 160 or 140 deg, I considered this also, but all of the NZ based owners of the original fire stuff fans were very much against that, which kind of swayed me to leave it as status quo... I am aware that every other fan, folding or not, is generally at 160 or 140, but it just seems that 180deg opens up some extra trick possibilities, though I wonder now if possibly offering buyers an option may be the way forward...


One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


hexacoto
stranger

Member Since: 17th Jun 2009
Total posts: 14
Posted:Just to let you know, Charlie, I fervently (as I do believe others too) check back on this page just in hopes that there might be an update or so. Like this is one of those instances haha.

Keep up the good work!



(pleasepleasepleaselettherebesomenewssoon)



Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:Drum Roll Please?

Production on these fans starts Saturday the 10th of July smile

There is one last possible tweak i'm investigating with the wick attachment, details to follow.


One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:Just a quick update again, attached is a picture of the new wick attachment i'm contemplating, it's stronger, will last far longer, and it's also quicker so will keep the cost down.

Under the rivet there is a brace which holds the whole flap down.


Non-Https Image Link


One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:



One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


aston
aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa
Member Since: 2nd Dec 2007
Total posts: 4061
Posted:Shiny....

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland


entheogen
entheogen

member
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 4th Mar 2005
Total posts: 173
Posted:I really have no problem with a bit of metal on the wick as long as its not sticking out in any way. The rivet system seems to be amply tucked deep enough inside the kevlar, so it shouldnt be any problem for making skin trails or fire eating whatsoever. My only concern is, is there going to be a problem in removing the old kevlar when it needs to be replaced?

I've been really wanting go get my hands on fans with a much larger hole for spinning- in Kiew they had constructions where all four fingers fitted in so you spin around the palm directly. Starting and stopping is a merely a flick of the thumb away. Its really a lot easier to handle and you never have to worry about it spinning off your hand (which was a problem for me with the one finger holes Ive tried), but I realize that such a large hole for your construction is potentially not possible. Is this maybe something you've tested?

Really like the construction, definitly interested, and I really hope a 160 option is available


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'


Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:Thats good to know thanks entheogen.

There is pretty much a 95% chance of a 140deg spread now, 140 has the aesthetic advantage that when the two fans are evenly back to pack, you get 10 evenly spaced flames as opposed to 8 at 180.

Though if you want a custom one at 160deg this can always be arranged.

As for the hand sized spin run, this isn't really possible or practical on this design.


One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


hexacoto
stranger

Member Since: 17th Jun 2009
Total posts: 14
Posted:Woohoo! This ranks right up there at the top, next to Christmas.

I realized when you spun it, and stopped it with your thumb from a spin, that spoke kinda jerked a little. Is there a chance that with a more intense spin, that spoke might close even greater?

The spin hole looks fine. I think people will find a way to get around it by maybe having the middle finger in the spin hole and the other fingers might find a natural resting spot elsewhere. Yay for big hands. You know what they say about people with big hands!

That's right they wear big gloves.

Also, nice hat. And tattoos.

EDITED_BY: hexacoto (1279136413)



Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:Hey Hexacoto,

Yes well spotted, I've decided to fit the spin fans with double springs still even at 140 to prevent that in the long term, as the springs do bed/soften over time.

I found another advantage at 140deg, it's actually possible to squeeze them closed in hand (with practice and perhaps bigger hands).

And cheers, the hat hides my new hair doo (or lack there-of), and the tattoos are a constant work in progress, hurts about the same as some fire eating tricks but leaves a prettier mark wink


One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


hexacoto
stranger

Member Since: 17th Jun 2009
Total posts: 14
Posted:Last few questions:

How easy are the fans to maintain? Given the mobile parts, how durable are the fans? Can they withstand an elephant doing the macarena on it? Are there any form of warranty/assurance on it? What happens when the springs weaken? Do we buy replacement springs?

I assume it'll be available through HOP?

Haha so many questions. Sorry to bombard you with them, but you had to be a genius and make these shiny things! =)



Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:Originally Posted By: hexacotoLast few questions:

How easy are the fans to maintain?
Given the mobile parts, how durable are the fans? Can they withstand an elephant doing the macarena on it? Are there any form of warranty/assurance on it? What happens when the springs weaken? Do we buy replacement springs?

I assume it'll be available through HOP?

Haha so many questions. Sorry to bombard you with them, but you had to be a genius and make these shiny things! =)


Maintenence is pretty much non-existant, all working parts are separated by 1 or 2 nylon washers to ensure wear and tear is kept pretty much to a minimum. an infrequent tighten of the main bolt may be required in the long run if the action is used a lot. This area requires the most accurate tolerance for happy operation, it spreads it's load over larger and more nylon to keep friction at a minimum.

These fans are designed to be danced WITH, not ON[i/], due to their lighter construction they are not as robust to abuse as a normal fan, though they are also (within reason) easier to correct any bends if they occur. The reason they are more susceptable to abuse is when lying down they do not have a flat profile like non folding fans, thus the top/high blade undergoes a massive amount of stress when forced to bear weight in this manner and naturally bends, it's not really avoidable even an unobtanium or titanium alloy would not prevent this.

These come with the same warranty as any other prop supplied by me or HoP.

Yes HoP will be stocking these, and any other store you convince to contact me and do so also could get in on the action wink

As for springs, I have designed this product to have replaceable parts, and replacements are available by contacting me directly, when i get time i will produce a rebuild kit that will include an instructional DVD to help people get it right (this is still the one part of the manufacturing always done personally by my or under direct observation as it's critical).

Generally by the time the springs wore out on the original fans the wicks needed replacing anyway so the fans came back to me. I think the new style wicks will last much longer so spring replacement may be required on an annual basis or so, It's hard to say as there are so many variables for their life...

anywho ill continue this later, my plane is boarding smile


One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


hexacoto
stranger

Member Since: 17th Jun 2009
Total posts: 14
Posted:Hi Charlie, not to sound pushy, but the fans are not up on sale yet, both on HOP and your site. You reckon it'll come on by this month, because I'm anticipating to use them in September (already)?

Thanks.



bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:Having a ring in a folding fan is awesome.
i would like to point out that Charlie is awesome.
that is all.


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always


Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:Heh, Thanks bender.

The current delay is that the welder guy i use broke his welder that he needs to weld this type of metal.

He's promised them by Sunday my time, if he pulls through, then i can start rolling out the finger spin fans next week, all the other bits are made, ready and waiting.


One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:Okay So, UPDATEEEE

My welder fixed his welder

Non-Https Image Link


He's done enough for me to get about 10 sets built, which as soon as my day job (which hasn't given me a day off this month and has me working an average of 9 - 16 hours/day) allows, I'll get onto asap,

Thanks all for your patience, especially those with pre-orders!!


One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


hexacoto
stranger

Member Since: 17th Jun 2009
Total posts: 14
Posted:There are pre-order options???? Where?


Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:Not on the HOP forum as that would be slightly commercial tongue2

One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:Last Update!!!! smile





One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


Charlie Fox
Charlie Fox

Burinating the village like Trogdor
Location: West Auck, NZ
Member Since: 2nd Jun 2006
Total posts: 156
Posted:http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/921337.html


One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
- A.A. Milne

Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
- Anon (I think)


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