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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:So I'm sitting here looking at my little Paco (a Poodle/Shiba-Inu mix that we got out of a shelter) and Zoe (a Basenji/street-dog mix from Taiwan) and pondering why the American and British Kennel Clubs exist and why people who claim to love dogs so much would spend so much time, money, and energy making more dogs to add to the overpopulation problem. Especially when some breeds of dogs are so genetically grotuesque that none of them live long and healthy lives (like Pugs with their noses and German Shepherds with their hips).

Our little guy was apparently rescued by the foster group two weeks shy of when he was going to be put down in the shelter. And, while he's lacking in some socialization and we're working on some behavior issues, he's wonderful.

I'm sorry to offend if anyone here breeds dogs, but why create something that is already overabundant?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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railspinner
railspinner

journeyman
Location: canada
Member Since: 8th Oct 2008
Total posts: 99
Posted:I have mixed feelings about dog breeding. I tend to dislike it in general, They propagate a lot of genetic diseases for the sake of breed conformation. Their isn't very much effort to improve the condition of the breed on the part of most breeders. For example german shepards are in a serious need of recueing. To hell with breed conformity, mix the breed with similar breeds untill the hip issue is rectified. But breeders continue to carry on the bad genes in the name of the AKK (what I call the american kennel club)

Most dog owners don't have a need for pure breds anyways since they are only seeking companion dogs. Theirs no need for special temperments, phqisques and behaviours that are required for working dogs.

Their is definatly a need for breeders for the purpose of working dogs, if your running a sheep farm your not going to do trial and error adopting dogs from a shelter untill you find one with good herding instincts.

When I get a second dog I have a list of various breeds I would like in it's mix, but I wont go to a dog breeder and buy one, ill just take my time searching shelters untill I find one that has a mix of breeds im looking for, because I will probably end up with a superior dog anyways and I know that dog won't end up underneath the needle.

The best dogs ive ever seen were mix breeds.


The less people know the more they believe

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Originally Posted By: railspinnerMost dog owners don't have a need for pure breds anyways since they are only seeking companion dogs. Theirs no need for special temperments, phqisques and behaviours that are required for working dogs.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Most dog owners have a need for temperament - or at least SHOULD! I was four when my family bought our first dog and it was essential that the dog have the sort of temperament that would be acceptable with a child in the house. And even without a child living in the house, you need to take into account children visiting the house, people who you encounter while taking the dog walking etc.

Temperament is HUGELY important, no matter the owner of the dog.

Behaviour as well - some breeds need more exercise than others and if you were to get a mutt with a very-high energy breed in it when you can't provide it with large amounts of energy then that would be a big issue.

Your standard dog owner who is only after a companion animal still needs to be taking things like temperament and behaviour into consideration.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:II agree with Rouge. Like if all you want is a low energy companion, something like a Mastiff is 100% perfect if you don't mind the slobber at sight of food. But if you are a low energy person and get something like a Lab, it's going to go mad, not crazy, I mean angry mad. It won't listen, this is the kind of situation where you have dogs going and tearing up furniture and biting people.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Seaspray
Seaspray

stranger by the day
Location: At the Back of the North Wind
Member Since: 8th Jul 2009
Total posts: 924
Posted:hmm... might be being unfair to labs there. The only time I met a violent lab was one that had been rescued that a friend who runs a re-homing charity asked us to look after for a day until she could pick it up.

Poor thing went crazy at the sight of me and my sister. Think teenagers had abused it badly. Had to be put down later apparently frown


Just a dancer in the dark

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railspinner
railspinner

journeyman
Location: canada
Member Since: 8th Oct 2008
Total posts: 99
Posted:rogue it's important, but their needs are not so specialized they need to seek a pure breed. their are always dogs in shelters with a variety of good temperments and diffrent personalitys and behaviours.

The less people know the more they believe

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SpinnerofDetroit
SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA
Member Since: 25th Oct 2009
Total posts: 2280
Posted:I'm not being mean to labs, I love labs. They're energetic. But what I'm saying is that you can't treat an energetic dog, SUCH AS a lab, like you would treat a mellow one, SUCH AS a mastiff, or stuff starts going wrong. And like the dog going crazy at your sight. That's similar to my dog, apparently the person who used to beat her always wore a baseball cap and cowers in fear when she sees someone other than me or my mom wearing a baseball cap.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Ringshadow
Ringshadow

journeyman
Location: SW Michigan, United States
Member Since: 31st Oct 2009
Total posts: 81
Posted:There are two kinds of Labradors in my experience. There's the really smart ones, you know the ones that know an entire list of tricks and retrieve or herd. Then there's the "stupid as a box of hair" Labradors. I'm not sure if it's because of overbreeding or what but they seem to go one way or the other.

They also seem to be getting bigger. Why are there 80 pound labs? Labs are supposed to weigh like 45 pounds!


Happiness is a skill, not a commodity
I have been kidnapped by hooping.

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Grottbags
Grottbags

Just Say Neigh
Location: Pie Town
Member Since: 14th Apr 2010
Total posts: 36
Posted:Rouge Dragon is right that many breeds have character traits, Red setters being dippy, Patterdale terriers being snappy, Greyhounds nervous, but this is not a guarentee and each animal is also influenced highly by the type of upbringing and treatment, as well as some of the influence of the breed, so a pedgree does not always ensure you will get the same behavior traits.

Some working dogs are definately bred for a purpose, some no longer perform that (i.e. border terriers were bred to go in saddle bags hunting) and some do. Those breeds are understandable if certain physical criterea need to be filled. The problem arises that a lot of breeders who show the animals, do not work them as well, and still want dew claws removed and tails docked, even tho' it does not affect the dog, it just means lower marks in the show ring!


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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Originally Posted By: railspinnerrogue it's important, but their needs are not so specialized they need to seek a pure breed. their are always dogs in shelters with a variety of good temperments and diffrent personalitys and behaviours.

But how do you know? That's the problem.

If it came between a dog from a breeder with a background and bred temperament versus a mutt from the RSPCA and I had a young family, I'd pick the bred dog any day! And as much as that isn't the case all the time, I wouldn't be taking chances if I had kids!


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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railspinner
railspinner

journeyman
Location: canada
Member Since: 8th Oct 2008
Total posts: 99
Posted:well you ask the shelter what they know of the dog, shelters do their best to access the temperment and nature of the dogs they get. Then you ask to see the dog, and you assess it yourself and make a decision. When I was a kid all of our family dogs were from shelters, and we fostered a few dogs untill they could find owners.

It's pretty rare for a dog to be so twisted up in the head it's a danger to bring into a family. Dogs that are like this you usually can tell just by hanging out with them a bit.

Sure theirs no gurantee, but theirs no gurantee about pure breeds either. THeirs a lot more fidelity if you go to a proper breeder that actually gives a damn, but most people go to half assed breeders or worse puppy mills.


The less people know the more they believe

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faith enfire
faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin
Member Since: 27th Jan 2006
Total posts: 3556
Posted:dogs that are a danger are often put down rather than run the risk of someone getting injured by a dog whose snapped

Shelters in our area make you fill out applications and they match pet personality with people personality


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Ringshadow
Ringshadow

journeyman
Location: SW Michigan, United States
Member Since: 31st Oct 2009
Total posts: 81
Posted:Since we're on this topic does anyone else get pissed off when you hear about someone paying for a crossbreed? Like a Morkie or a Labradoodle? These are NOT DOG BREEDS, let alone a breed recognized by the AKC! Why the heck are people charging for them?! FFuffufufuuuuffuu.

.. ahem. Sorry pet peeve.


Happiness is a skill, not a commodity
I have been kidnapped by hooping.

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Originally Posted By: FiFShelters in our area make you fill out applications and they match pet personality with people personality

yo, mama! look what I got...


Non-Https Image Link


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mother_Natures_Son
Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!
Member Since: 1st Aug 2007
Total posts: 2418
Posted:A pet peeve, eh, Ringshadow? Nice one!

hug

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Tom, I think there might be a few people on this board fighting for that guinea pig tongue2

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Ringshadow
Ringshadow

journeyman
Location: SW Michigan, United States
Member Since: 31st Oct 2009
Total posts: 81
Posted:I have guinea pigs!


Non-Https Image Link


My brother is holding them here. As you can tell they're just thrilled.


Happiness is a skill, not a commodity
I have been kidnapped by hooping.

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Dogs dumbed down by domestication.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete

FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Nice link, Rouge... reminds me of humans on the Internet... either bark at or lick each others backside with little in between wink

I feel it is quite a natural reaction being trapped - errm "jailed". Most "people (just) have dogs" - means the canines got to hang out in captivity and wait for their master to throw them some food and take for the daily walk in the (prison) yard... I'm not surprised.

Originally Posted By: articleThat blank stare in your dog's eyes could be the result of thousands of years of human intervention.

Whereas I find that only partly true... it depends on the environment and the master. Most of the dogs I encounter in Goa will be able to return to the wild within short periods of time.

And last but not least: you can train your dog.

my twocents


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Originally Posted By: RingshadowSince we're on this topic does anyone else get pissed off when you hear about someone paying for a crossbreed? Like a Morkie or a Labradoodle? These are NOT DOG BREEDS, let alone a breed recognized by the AKC! Why the heck are people charging for them?! FFuffufufuuuuffuu.

.. ahem. Sorry pet peeve.

If anything, I have more sympathy for cross-breeders than purebreeders. Purebreeding is why the German Shepherd can barely walk anymore and why English bulldogs can't be born without a C-section.

Poodles are a good mixing breed because they don't shed and they're very smart, but their somewhat rebellious attitude can be diluted out with the adoring loyalty of a retriever breed. The health issues that have been caused by literally hundreds of generations of inbreeding can be greatly reduced (never eliminated) by cross-breeding, as well. There's a reason these dogs are popular.

As for the AKC, I view them as a pro-cruelty, anti-dog organization. Oh, they claim to be for the dogs, but just try to get your mutt registered. They don't care about mutts, and mutts are the majority of dogs. Furthermore, the breed standards of kennel clubs sometimes call for culling healthy puppies, and the breed standards of other breeds actually stipulate that they have sometimes debilitating physical deformities. No group of people who loves dogs would do such things to them.

Om the day that the last dog pound closes and every dog has a home, there will be a reason to breed them. Until then, the genetic horror show called the "AKC breed standards" will remain just that: a horror show.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:I agree - though purebreeding isn't the reason for the German shepers low hips... it's the perverted view of "desirable beauty" of individual breeders - and consumers buying this.

If there would not be a market for, they would not produce for it.

Anyone coming up with proposals about "skillful communication" - one that is funny AND effective - to raise awareness, please step forth and get a hug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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