Forums > Social Discussion > Cleaning out the beggars
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
I found this piece of news rather interesting.
It's a common occurrence leading up to big events, LA did it, China did it (before the Olympics, rather than the Commonwealth Games, obviously) and I'm sure pretty much everywhere else has done it too, but I find it interesting and it doesn't sit well with me.
I suppose for me it's the "if you're flashy enough to host a big event, then why can't you do something for your most needy?" but then I acknowledge the good that major events can bring to a city.
I also think that it's de-humanising for these people to be so shameful that their city is booting them, that they need to be hidden away from the tourists and media.
Plus, an anti-begging law? What a utopian world!
There's no real question or anything behind this post, it's just a news piece that caught my attention and I felt like sharing (and wouldn't mind hearing of Mr Tom hears about this in India)
I found this piece of news rather interesting.
It's a common occurrence leading up to big events, LA did it, China did it (before the Olympics, rather than the Commonwealth Games, obviously) and I'm sure pretty much everywhere else has done it too, but I find it interesting and it doesn't sit well with me.
I suppose for me it's the "if you're flashy enough to host a big event, then why can't you do something for your most needy?" but then I acknowledge the good that major events can bring to a city.
I also think that it's de-humanising for these people to be so shameful that their city is booting them, that they need to be hidden away from the tourists and media.
Plus, an anti-begging law? What a utopian world!
There's no real question or anything behind this post, it's just a news piece that caught my attention and I felt like sharing (and wouldn't mind hearing of Mr Tom hears about this in India)
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
SILVER Member
Fire Spinner Exarch
514 posts
Location: New Orleans, LA United States, USA
Fire Spinner Exarch
514 posts
Location: New Orleans, LA United States, USA
Posted:
The city I live in is trying the same thing but permanently. They hope to basically shift all the cities homeless who dwell in the downtown area to another area where they are building a big shelter for them. It's really weird and doesn't make a lot of sense. Time will tell whether it does anything or more likely does nothing but waste government funds. Sigh, the lengths some government institutions go to "solve" the homeless problems shows how out of touch they are with the realities of the world.
The city I live in is trying the same thing but permanently. They hope to basically shift all the cities homeless who dwell in the downtown area to another area where they are building a big shelter for them. It's really weird and doesn't make a lot of sense. Time will tell whether it does anything or more likely does nothing but waste government funds. Sigh, the lengths some government institutions go to "solve" the homeless problems shows how out of touch they are with the realities of the world.
"Are you sure it's safe to drink bleach?"
"Yes, bleach is 90% water, we are 90% water, therefore: we are bleach."
-Nathan Explosion, Metalocalypse
BRONZE Member
Reincarnated Woodelf
17 posts
Location: Neverland, Slovenia
Reincarnated Woodelf
17 posts
Location: Neverland, Slovenia
Posted:
The only way to get rid of beggars is by providing them everything they need, and even then some people will beg. The only thing they will do with laws like the ones above is pushing the poor out of sight so the tourists and others wont see them. I dont see how that can solve the problem. Also, when you are hungry you wont mind breaking the law with begging if it will get you something to eat first. Some of the beggars I know get arrested just to spend the winter someplace warm - even if its behind bars.
What would the world be like without beggars? And what would the world be like without captain Hook? It. just. doesnt. work. that. way.
The only way to get rid of beggars is by providing them everything they need, and even then some people will beg. The only thing they will do with laws like the ones above is pushing the poor out of sight so the tourists and others wont see them. I dont see how that can solve the problem. Also, when you are hungry you wont mind breaking the law with begging if it will get you something to eat first. Some of the beggars I know get arrested just to spend the winter someplace warm - even if its behind bars.
What would the world be like without beggars? And what would the world be like without captain Hook? It. just. doesnt. work. that. way.
Aliens abducted me! They made me wear a funny hat.
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
Bren, in that case at least they're pretending to fix the homeless up with something permanent. I say 'pretend' because I doubt that it's for the good of the homeless so much as the other gains the local council will get moving them.
Bubble, I agree.
Bren, in that case at least they're pretending to fix the homeless up with something permanent. I say 'pretend' because I doubt that it's for the good of the homeless so much as the other gains the local council will get moving them.
Bubble, I agree.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
stranger
14 posts
Location: Hopkinton, MA
14 posts
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Posted:
Now that just makes me sad tha almost half of the 100,000 kids there beg for a living...that's just terrible yet here sports players are making tens of millions a year just for playing their sport which should be about the fun of the game not how much money you get.
Now that just makes me sad tha almost half of the 100,000 kids there beg for a living...that's just terrible yet here sports players are making tens of millions a year just for playing their sport which should be about the fun of the game not how much money you get.
SILVER Member
Fire Spinner Exarch
514 posts
Location: New Orleans, LA United States, USA
Fire Spinner Exarch
514 posts
Location: New Orleans, LA United States, USA
Posted:
It does seem quite silly. Methinks what will happen is that the homeless will stay the night at the shelter and go over to downtown in the morning. Downtown is where the churches that give out food are, it's where it's busy during the day and they can hit up people for change. This shelter they are building is already in a bad part of town. I know some people in that area who are pissed at what's going on because they see it as a huge spike in the amount of crime and trouble that will occur. Pretty much every business in that area is upping security to deal with potential problems.
But the whole reason they want the homeless out of downtown is to dress it up to make it more appealing to tourists and business potential. See Tulsa has suffered from an image problem for a long time. It sucks here, it is a small city without the big tourist draws that a lot of other cities have. Tulsa is jealous of places like Kansas City or Dallas (or Forth Worth, Austin, Houstin, Phoenix, Albuquerque, Boulder for that matter) and is all too slowly trying to build itself up. So they're building all these things downtown to try and breathe life into the city. And the homeless are in the way of that somehow and need to be removed. But then again, all those cities that Tulsa envies for what they have also have large bodies of the homeless so this whole plan doesn't make sense.
It does seem quite silly. Methinks what will happen is that the homeless will stay the night at the shelter and go over to downtown in the morning. Downtown is where the churches that give out food are, it's where it's busy during the day and they can hit up people for change. This shelter they are building is already in a bad part of town. I know some people in that area who are pissed at what's going on because they see it as a huge spike in the amount of crime and trouble that will occur. Pretty much every business in that area is upping security to deal with potential problems.
But the whole reason they want the homeless out of downtown is to dress it up to make it more appealing to tourists and business potential. See Tulsa has suffered from an image problem for a long time. It sucks here, it is a small city without the big tourist draws that a lot of other cities have. Tulsa is jealous of places like Kansas City or Dallas (or Forth Worth, Austin, Houstin, Phoenix, Albuquerque, Boulder for that matter) and is all too slowly trying to build itself up. So they're building all these things downtown to try and breathe life into the city. And the homeless are in the way of that somehow and need to be removed. But then again, all those cities that Tulsa envies for what they have also have large bodies of the homeless so this whole plan doesn't make sense.
"Are you sure it's safe to drink bleach?"
"Yes, bleach is 90% water, we are 90% water, therefore: we are bleach."
-Nathan Explosion, Metalocalypse
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Indian jails are no good places to spend time in, there are no churches in downtown Delhi to hand out free food (though there might be missions somewhere along the line).
Actually as much as I've been told, the movie "slumdog millionaire" did portrait some of the conditions quite accurately... so enforcing a law against begging and sending the children off the streets to shelters might actually be a very good thing.
(Whereas in India it might only boil down to more baksheesh being paid to police officers for not enforcing the new guidelines.)
When looking at children begging and the conditions, the term "child labor" (and its stigma) gets an entirely different dimension. And what would the streets of Main Bazaar be, if you couldn't beautify your consciousness anymore with a few Rupees, a chai or chappatti given to some children...
Indian jails are no good places to spend time in, there are no churches in downtown Delhi to hand out free food (though there might be missions somewhere along the line).
Actually as much as I've been told, the movie "slumdog millionaire" did portrait some of the conditions quite accurately... so enforcing a law against begging and sending the children off the streets to shelters might actually be a very good thing.
(Whereas in India it might only boil down to more baksheesh being paid to police officers for not enforcing the new guidelines.)
When looking at children begging and the conditions, the term "child labor" (and its stigma) gets an entirely different dimension. And what would the streets of Main Bazaar be, if you couldn't beautify your consciousness anymore with a few Rupees, a chai or chappatti given to some children...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
GOLD Member
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posted:
Sometimes big events like these do some good, but more often than not they don't do enough good for the right people. I know it's common to tout the extra business that suddenly comes to a city for such an event, including sometimes revenue that goes directly to local government, but I can't say I've ever heard of a case where the Olympics or something come to town only to leave a mysterious long term decrease in unemployment. (Especially not if you're Vancouver.)
I guess my point is, these events are NOT about helping people, and if you want to help people, there are probably more effective ways to do it.
Sometimes big events like these do some good, but more often than not they don't do enough good for the right people. I know it's common to tout the extra business that suddenly comes to a city for such an event, including sometimes revenue that goes directly to local government, but I can't say I've ever heard of a case where the Olympics or something come to town only to leave a mysterious long term decrease in unemployment. (Especially not if you're Vancouver.)
I guess my point is, these events are NOT about helping people, and if you want to help people, there are probably more effective ways to do it.
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Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
these events do help a lot of people... but maybe not the average Joe... apart from sports stadiums built for that occasion...
these events do help a lot of people... but maybe not the average Joe... apart from sports stadiums built for that occasion...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
SILVER Member
20% more: DIET ASBESTOS©
34 posts
Location: Lower Mantle, USA
20% more: DIET ASBESTOS©
34 posts
Location: Lower Mantle, USA
Posted:
These sports events do nothing at all for the poor and impoverished peoples that live there. Think about every olympic games of "modern" times, same pattern over and over. Everything deemed unsightly or undesired is white washed and forced out of the way, to keep profit at a maximum (aka gentrification). From the Berlin olympics to Mexico City, Beijing, Atlanta, and Vancouver.
I lived in Atlanta during the 1996 olympics, and it was disgusting to watch all the poor and homeless being pushed out by the rising property prices caused by the olympics coming to town. Money should be spent on securing human needs instead of putting cash in the pocket of every corporation and media tycoon that can push itself into the situation.
These sports events do nothing at all for the poor and impoverished peoples that live there. Think about every olympic games of "modern" times, same pattern over and over. Everything deemed unsightly or undesired is white washed and forced out of the way, to keep profit at a maximum (aka gentrification). From the Berlin olympics to Mexico City, Beijing, Atlanta, and Vancouver.
I lived in Atlanta during the 1996 olympics, and it was disgusting to watch all the poor and homeless being pushed out by the rising property prices caused by the olympics coming to town. Money should be spent on securing human needs instead of putting cash in the pocket of every corporation and media tycoon that can push itself into the situation.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
somebody in here uses an avatar hosted by imageshack...
Dr.B: I do agree with you that money should be spent on securing human needs and I'm all against profit maximization of corporations and media tycoons... but why do you reckon that a sports event would/should do anything for the poor and impoverished?
somebody in here uses an avatar hosted by imageshack...
Dr.B: I do agree with you that money should be spent on securing human needs and I'm all against profit maximization of corporations and media tycoons... but why do you reckon that a sports event would/should do anything for the poor and impoverished?
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
SILVER Member
20% more: DIET ASBESTOS©
34 posts
Location: Lower Mantle, USA
20% more: DIET ASBESTOS©
34 posts
Location: Lower Mantle, USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: FireTombut why do you reckon that a sports event would/should do anything for the poor and impoverished?
Sorry if I came off as a bit heated, It is not the responsibility of a sports event to do anything for the poor and impoverished (it's everyones responsibility imo).
I have a problem with the olympics being touted as a symbol of human unity/solidarity, while many people in these locations have trouble fulfilling their basic needs on a daily basis. It just saddens me to see these kinds of power dynamics laid so bare.
Originally Posted By: FireTombut why do you reckon that a sports event would/should do anything for the poor and impoverished?
Sorry if I came off as a bit heated, It is not the responsibility of a sports event to do anything for the poor and impoverished (it's everyones responsibility imo).
I have a problem with the olympics being touted as a symbol of human unity/solidarity, while many people in these locations have trouble fulfilling their basic needs on a daily basis. It just saddens me to see these kinds of power dynamics laid so bare.
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
I remember that after the Sydney Olympics there was a lot of hype in the media about it _possibly_ being the first one where the overall profit generated may have actually exceeded the cost of hosting it (ie it may have been the first Olympics to actually turn a buck once government funding was taken into account). Building Stadiums is expensive guys - you need to sell a lot of hotdogs before you can offset that kind of cost.
Sure the person who builds the stadium gets lots of money...
I remember that after the Sydney Olympics there was a lot of hype in the media about it _possibly_ being the first one where the overall profit generated may have actually exceeded the cost of hosting it (ie it may have been the first Olympics to actually turn a buck once government funding was taken into account). Building Stadiums is expensive guys - you need to sell a lot of hotdogs before you can offset that kind of cost.
Sure the person who builds the stadium gets lots of money...
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Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Dr.B - fully understand (social) injustice outrages me once and the more just as well 
Yet there are a lot of people who think that these stadiums are around a lot longer than the beggars... and benefit the community a great deal more.
Dr.B - fully understand
(social) injustice outrages me once and the more just as well Yet there are a lot of people who think that these stadiums are around a lot longer than the beggars... and benefit the community a great deal more.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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