Forums > Social Discussion > USAirline safety - hold on to your hats
Login/Join to ParticipateStargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
According to a USA Today report about 65.000 flights in the US were airborne - even though they shouldn't due to maintenance problems related safety issues - over the past 6 years...
the article here
Originally Posted By: USA TodayDuring the past six years, millions of passengers have been on at least 65,000 U.S. airline flights that shouldn't have taken off because planes weren't properly maintained, a six-month USA TODAY investigation has found.
The investigation — which included an analysis of government fines against airlines for maintenance violations and penalty letters sent to them that were obtained through the Freedom of Information Act — reveals that substandard repairs, unqualified mechanics and lax oversight by airlines and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) are not unusual.
Originally Posted By: USA TodayU.S. airlines "regard safety as their highest responsibility," and "their maintenance programs reflect that commitment to safety," says Elizabeth Merida, a spokeswoman for the Air Transport Association, which represents big U.S. airlines. The ATA says members haven't had a fatal accident "attributable to maintenance" since Jan. 1, 2000.
According to a USA Today report about 65.000 flights in the US were airborne - even though they shouldn't due to maintenance problems related safety issues - over the past 6 years...
the article here
Originally Posted By: USA TodayDuring the past six years, millions of passengers have been on at least 65,000 U.S. airline flights that shouldn't have taken off because planes weren't properly maintained, a six-month USA TODAY investigation has found.
The investigation — which included an analysis of government fines against airlines for maintenance violations and penalty letters sent to them that were obtained through the Freedom of Information Act — reveals that substandard repairs, unqualified mechanics and lax oversight by airlines and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) are not unusual.
Originally Posted By: USA TodayU.S. airlines "regard safety as their highest responsibility," and "their maintenance programs reflect that commitment to safety," says Elizabeth Merida, a spokeswoman for the Air Transport Association, which represents big U.S. airlines. The ATA says members haven't had a fatal accident "attributable to maintenance" since Jan. 1, 2000.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
SILVER Member
Fire Spinner Exarch
514 posts
Location: New Orleans, LA United States, USA
Fire Spinner Exarch
514 posts
Location: New Orleans, LA United States, USA
Posted:
Don't worry, I've got a kick-ass pair of binoculars with me to see well in advance when the planes start dropping out of the sky.
Don't worry, I've got a kick-ass pair of binoculars with me to see well in advance when the planes start dropping out of the sky.
"Are you sure it's safe to drink bleach?"
"Yes, bleach is 90% water, we are 90% water, therefore: we are bleach."
-Nathan Explosion, Metalocalypse
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
keep it with you (especially when you're going on a flight)
Funny how some news just seem to make a match ...
Concorde trial to start in France... L.A.Times article here
Originally Posted By: L.A.TimesIn a trial that began Tuesday, a French court is to decide who was responsible for the July 25, 2000, crash of Flight 4590. The trial is expected to last until the end of May.
Air France and British Airways, both of which flew the Concorde, retired the aircraft in 2003.
What happened?
A fuel tank under the left wing caught fire as the supersonic carrier left the Paris airport.
French investigating judges and prosecutors say the fire was caused by a piece of metal, called a wear strip, that fell off a Continental Airlines DC-10. They say the piece of metal burst one of the Concorde's tires, throwing debris into the wing and fuel tank that caused a leak and sparked the fire. They also argue that the exterior of the fuel tank was not sufficiently resistant to the impact, and that Concorde technicians were aware of the problem because of previous burst tires and fuel leaks caused by flying debris.
Continental Airlines lawyer Olivier Metzner will argue that the plane caught fire before it hit what he describes as a "minor" metal strip. He says the American company has served as an easy scapegoat.
keep it with you (especially when you're going on a flight) Funny how some news just seem to make a match ...
Concorde trial to start in France... L.A.Times article here
Originally Posted By: L.A.TimesIn a trial that began Tuesday, a French court is to decide who was responsible for the July 25, 2000, crash of Flight 4590. The trial is expected to last until the end of May.
Air France and British Airways, both of which flew the Concorde, retired the aircraft in 2003.
What happened?
A fuel tank under the left wing caught fire as the supersonic carrier left the Paris airport.
French investigating judges and prosecutors say the fire was caused by a piece of metal, called a wear strip, that fell off a Continental Airlines DC-10. They say the piece of metal burst one of the Concorde's tires, throwing debris into the wing and fuel tank that caused a leak and sparked the fire. They also argue that the exterior of the fuel tank was not sufficiently resistant to the impact, and that Concorde technicians were aware of the problem because of previous burst tires and fuel leaks caused by flying debris.
Continental Airlines lawyer Olivier Metzner will argue that the plane caught fire before it hit what he describes as a "minor" metal strip. He says the American company has served as an easy scapegoat.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted:
no piece of metal is "minor" when it comes to messing with Jet aircraft on takeoff.
And the lawyers can and will argue. Almost every single aircraft accident does not have a single cause. Usually there is a human error (e.g. incorrect maintenance action) followed by another human or system/procedure error quite often with another one or 2 errors or acts of god. So it's not surprising that a lot of flights happen with improper maintenance and no ill effect.
So in the case of the concorde case above there are at least 3 contributing causes either of which if fixed would have prevented the crash:
1) the metal falling off one plane (maintenance issue or design issue?)
2) inadequate runway FOD checking process (most airports have systems [electronic or human] to check runways in between flights)
3) concorde design issue making the fuel tank suscepible to impact damage
the cause is not any one of those things but the chain of events. How do you attach blame to that?
no piece of metal is "minor" when it comes to messing with Jet aircraft on takeoff.
And the lawyers can and will argue. Almost every single aircraft accident does not have a single cause. Usually there is a human error (e.g. incorrect maintenance action) followed by another human or system/procedure error quite often with another one or 2 errors or acts of god. So it's not surprising that a lot of flights happen with improper maintenance and no ill effect.
So in the case of the concorde case above there are at least 3 contributing causes either of which if fixed would have prevented the crash:
1) the metal falling off one plane (maintenance issue or design issue?)
2) inadequate runway FOD checking process (most airports have systems [electronic or human] to check runways in between flights)
3) concorde design issue making the fuel tank suscepible to impact damage
the cause is not any one of those things but the chain of events. How do you attach blame to that?
Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread
I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it. 
BRONZE Member
addict
474 posts
Location: Australia
addict
474 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
have any of you guys taken the plane ride up to Lukla in Nepal?
Now that is one scary trip. I could jump the length of the runway it is that small, though you wouldnt want to because you will fall of the mountain.
have any of you guys taken the plane ride up to Lukla in Nepal?
Now that is one scary trip. I could jump the length of the runway it is that small, though you wouldnt want to because you will fall of the mountain.
sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.
BRONZE Member
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted:
Nope, but might do in near future - I sell air navigation systems to Nepal (or try to!) and we calibrate their navaids too
Nope, but might do in near future - I sell air navigation systems to Nepal (or try to!) and we calibrate their navaids too
Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread
I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
SILVER Member
Hunting robot foxes
1,046 posts
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, England (UK)
Hunting robot foxes
1,046 posts
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, England (UK)
Posted:
I did some local flights in Nepal, tho not the one to Lukla (heard about it!) and man it gets scary sometimes!
I did some local flights in Nepal, tho not the one to Lukla (heard about it!) and man it gets scary sometimes!
Working hard to be a wandering hippie layabout. Ten years down, five to go!
SILVER Member
Fire Spinner Exarch
514 posts
Location: New Orleans, LA United States, USA
Fire Spinner Exarch
514 posts
Location: New Orleans, LA United States, USA
Posted:
Yeah I'm not really a big fan of flying. Have taken a whole two flights in the past decade. Driving is adequate for most of the places I've been or plan on going to. When I drive somewhere, I can usually make an adventure out of it and check out somewhere new. Plus I can smoke out in the car
Yeah I'm not really a big fan of flying. Have taken a whole two flights in the past decade. Driving is adequate for most of the places I've been or plan on going to. When I drive somewhere, I can usually make an adventure out of it and check out somewhere new. Plus I can smoke out in the car
"Are you sure it's safe to drink bleach?"
"Yes, bleach is 90% water, we are 90% water, therefore: we are bleach."
-Nathan Explosion, Metalocalypse
SILVER Member
enthusiast
375 posts
Location: Flying south for the winter., USA
enthusiast
375 posts
Location: Flying south for the winter., USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: L.A.TimesIn a trial that began Tuesday, a French court is to decide who was responsible for the July 25, 2000, crash of Flight 4590. The trial is expected to last until the end of May.
Air France and British Airways, both of which flew the Concorde, retired the aircraft in 2003.
What happened?
A fuel tank under the left wing caught fire as the supersonic carrier left the Paris airport.
French investigating judges and prosecutors say the fire was caused by a piece of metal, called a wear strip, that fell off a Continental Airlines DC-10. They say the piece of metal burst one of the Concorde's tires, throwing debris into the wing and fuel tank that caused a leak and sparked the fire. They also argue that the exterior of the fuel tank was not sufficiently resistant to the impact, and that Concorde technicians were aware of the problem because of previous burst tires and fuel leaks caused by flying debris.
Continental Airlines lawyer Olivier Metzner will argue that the plane caught fire before it hit what he describes as a "minor" metal strip. He says the American company has served as an easy scapegoat.
Isn't that the crash they tried to pin on Goodyear back when it happened?
edit:
It is the same crash.
Quote:
This isn’t the first time the Concorde crash made it to court. In 2001, French families of the deceased lodged suit in Harris County District Court, Texas, against Continental Airlines and the Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company, the maker of the Concorde's burst wheel. The case was settled out of court and the case was closed in mid-2006. The Law Office of Kevin Krist, who represented some of the plaintiffs, says the settlement was confidential and declined comment to the Monitor.
EDITED_BY: JaredW (1265223891)
Originally Posted By: L.A.TimesIn a trial that began Tuesday, a French court is to decide who was responsible for the July 25, 2000, crash of Flight 4590. The trial is expected to last until the end of May.
Air France and British Airways, both of which flew the Concorde, retired the aircraft in 2003.
What happened?
A fuel tank under the left wing caught fire as the supersonic carrier left the Paris airport.
French investigating judges and prosecutors say the fire was caused by a piece of metal, called a wear strip, that fell off a Continental Airlines DC-10. They say the piece of metal burst one of the Concorde's tires, throwing debris into the wing and fuel tank that caused a leak and sparked the fire. They also argue that the exterior of the fuel tank was not sufficiently resistant to the impact, and that Concorde technicians were aware of the problem because of previous burst tires and fuel leaks caused by flying debris.
Continental Airlines lawyer Olivier Metzner will argue that the plane caught fire before it hit what he describes as a "minor" metal strip. He says the American company has served as an easy scapegoat.
Isn't that the crash they tried to pin on Goodyear back when it happened?
edit:
It is the same crash.
Quote:
This isn’t the first time the Concorde crash made it to court. In 2001, French families of the deceased lodged suit in Harris County District Court, Texas, against Continental Airlines and the Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company, the maker of the Concorde's burst wheel. The case was settled out of court and the case was closed in mid-2006. The Law Office of Kevin Krist, who represented some of the plaintiffs, says the settlement was confidential and declined comment to the Monitor.
EDITED_BY: JaredW (1265223891)
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
to me the trials all boil down to a few points:
a) justice for the families who lost their beloved ones
b) financial compensation for their losses and foremost
c) a clear sign to the companies involved to get their act together
I find it mind-boggling to let unqualified and tired mechanics maintain airplanes. I wouldn't be so surprised if happening in a developing nation (or India for that matter) but I find it even more crazy that this is going on in a country like the US.
The EU is prohibiting certain airlines to land in Europe, airlines that have a bad maintenance record and they usually originate in Africa or parts of Asia and South America...
Find the list here
Maybe some USAirlines should be blacklisted too?
to me the trials all boil down to a few points:
a) justice for the families who lost their beloved ones
b) financial compensation for their losses and foremost
c) a clear sign to the companies involved to get their act together
I find it mind-boggling to let unqualified and tired mechanics maintain airplanes. I wouldn't be so surprised if happening in a developing nation (or India for that matter) but I find it even more crazy that this is going on in a country like the US.
The EU is prohibiting certain airlines to land in Europe, airlines that have a bad maintenance record and they usually originate in Africa or parts of Asia and South America...
Find the list here
Maybe some USAirlines should be blacklisted too?
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
SILVER Member
Fire Spinner Exarch
514 posts
Location: New Orleans, LA United States, USA
Fire Spinner Exarch
514 posts
Location: New Orleans, LA United States, USA
Posted:
The whole American airline industry seems like an archaic dinosaur that hasn't changed in decades. It's in pretty tough shape and has been for years ever since our economy went downhill. Flying is retarded expensive and a lot more people are choosing not to fly. I know a lot of people who went to flying school but basically had to give up because they knew that even if they graduated at the top of their class that it would take years possibly to find a job. I've met a couple of airplane mechanics and they were all extremely intelligent and handy people. It is an inexcusable action to cut corners like that, but from jaded American eyes it's no surprise yet another industry was caught pushing the limits of what they can get away with in order to save money. For who or what is undetermined, whether it is corporate greed funneling the money into somebody's personal bank account or whether years of mismanagement and rising costs are finally taking its toll. It's a shame that it happens to cost people's lives. Hell when a brand of cookies changes its recipe and nobody likes it, people don't die!
The whole American airline industry seems like an archaic dinosaur that hasn't changed in decades. It's in pretty tough shape and has been for years ever since our economy went downhill. Flying is retarded expensive and a lot more people are choosing not to fly. I know a lot of people who went to flying school but basically had to give up because they knew that even if they graduated at the top of their class that it would take years possibly to find a job. I've met a couple of airplane mechanics and they were all extremely intelligent and handy people. It is an inexcusable action to cut corners like that, but from jaded American eyes it's no surprise yet another industry was caught pushing the limits of what they can get away with in order to save money. For who or what is undetermined, whether it is corporate greed funneling the money into somebody's personal bank account or whether years of mismanagement and rising costs are finally taking its toll. It's a shame that it happens to cost people's lives. Hell when a brand of cookies changes its recipe and nobody likes it, people don't die!
"Are you sure it's safe to drink bleach?"
"Yes, bleach is 90% water, we are 90% water, therefore: we are bleach."
-Nathan Explosion, Metalocalypse
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
[BUMP]
France justice has spoken:
Everybody is guilty, but not the French... Continental has to pay compensation (also for the image-loss of Air France) and the mechanic, who replaced the part on the Continental plane with a Titanium one - instead of another - is the only individual sentenced for the loss of 113 souls.
Outrageous? You bet.
Surprising? Not at all.
The Concorde has been a French icon, and icons are not dismantled (at least not in France) and jurisprudence is not independent... a shame for the judge to have drawn such a conclusion. (imho)
[BUMP]
France justice has spoken:
Everybody is guilty, but not the French... Continental has to pay compensation (also for the image-loss of Air France) and the mechanic, who replaced the part on the Continental plane with a Titanium one - instead of another - is the only individual sentenced for the loss of 113 souls.
Outrageous? You bet.
Surprising? Not at all.
The Concorde has been a French icon, and icons are not dismantled (at least not in France) and jurisprudence is not independent... a shame for the judge to have drawn such a conclusion. (imho)
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
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