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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:or better "it's my thread and I can delete it if I want to".... wink

another one bites the dust wink

R.I.P Haiti? thread


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:I don't see the need for a mature section I have to be honest...

A social area where people can swear and talk about sex?


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:Err.. isn't that what Facebook is for?

(P.S. F***)


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brenonfire413
brenonfire413

Fire Spinner Exarch
Location: New Orleans, LA United States
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2009
Total posts: 514
Posted:Speaking of sex...



EDITED_BY: brenonfire413 (1264514437)


"Are you sure it's safe to drink bleach?"
"Yes, bleach is 90% water, we are 90% water, therefore: we are bleach."
-Nathan Explosion, Metalocalypse

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Originally Posted By: This Jaded FleshOriginally Posted By: Durbs
You all know you're more than welcome to have debates and arguements here, and you should all know the posting guidlines, but to re-iterate:
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?


Give me a mature section... and I'll show you how to build goodwill! ^^b

that would be the "retired members forum"... wait some time and it'll be available for you too wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Originally Posted By: DurbsYou all know you're more than welcome to have debates and arguements here, and you should all know the posting guidlines, but to re-iterate:
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

I think that if you follow the first two requirements to the letter that you can't guarantee #3 which you have highlighted and #4 will happen wether they know it or not. To complete the goal of fulfilling all four is almost impossible regardless of who you're talking to unless they have similar ideals to begin with. The balance is all messed up and the list barely allows ambivolence, let alone *gasp* negativity! wink laugh3

If a mature section was just people over the age of 18 who don't have to censor their opinions and can drop the public relations job, I'd vote for it. LOL

Originally Posted By: willworkforfoodjnrHehe its a good thing you lot don't post on UKC your heads would explode...

hug

Haha yeah they would faint and be traumatized on Ravelinks! lolsign


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Originally Posted By: FireTomthat would be the "retired members forum"... wait some time and it'll be available for you too wink

Because the Retired Members Forum brought about such amazing amounts of good will? wink


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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ElectricBlue
ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Member Since: 11th Feb 2002
Total posts: 810
Posted:Quote:I think that if you follow the first two requirements to the letter that you can't guarantee #3 which you have highlighted and #4 will happen wether they know it or not. To complete the goal of fulfilling all four is almost impossible regardless of who you're talking to unless they have similar ideals to begin with. The balance is all messed up and the list barely allows ambivolence, let alone *gasp* negativity

Actually no, if people are adults about issues and don't resort to mudslinging and name calling, it is very possible to Satisfy 'Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?' and
'Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?' with out having the same opinion.

It is healthy for a community to debate hot issues and topics and does not mean you are not bettering friend ships. Think about your real life friends? Do you often debate topics that not every one agrees on? i know my friends do.

If every one just remembered that in these kind of debates it is not what you say it is the way you say it that really matters.


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:Originally Posted By: ElectricBlueQuote:I think that if you follow the first two requirements to the letter that you can't guarantee #3 which you have highlighted and #4 will happen wether they know it or not. To complete the goal of fulfilling all four is almost impossible regardless of who you're talking to unless they have similar ideals to begin with. The balance is all messed up and the list barely allows ambivolence, let alone *gasp* negativity

Actually no, if people are adults about issues and don't resort to mudslinging and name calling, it is very possible to Satisfy 'Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?' and
'Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?' with out having the same opinion.

It is healthy for a community to debate hot issues and topics and does not mean you are not bettering friend ships. Think about your real life friends? Do you often debate topics that not every one agrees on? i know my friends do.

If every one just remembered that in these kind of debates it is not what you say it is the way you say it that really matters.

And if some random just waltz's over and starts talking smack about the topic of debate you don't tell them to censored off? Because that's where most arguments come from. Two or more people in a dialogue on the net and then someone adds a their two cents that was either covered two pages ago or is just soo uninformed it offends. Apart from that, this is the internet. For the most part there is no way to tell how anyone is saying anything unless you know the outside the net.


"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

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ElectricBlue
ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Member Since: 11th Feb 2002
Total posts: 810
Posted:Quote:And if some random just waltz's over and starts talking smack about the topic of debate you don't tell them to off?

No i would probably do what i would do in real life, Ignore and continue the discussions with the people who were being intelligible and polite. Also if their 'talking smack' is actually just their opinion on a topic and they are presenting it with out being attacking or rude then who are any of us to tell them off? everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Quote:For the most part there is no way to tell how anyone is saying anything unless you know the outside the net.

Exactly that is why people need to think harder about what they are writing before they post and if their post could be considered aggressive, rude or unfriendly

Also there are many ways to make the same point with or with out being unnecessarily rude or overly aggressive that is what i mean by 'it is not what you say but how you say it'.

This is the point i was making in my post. That people in a community can encourage friendship and contribute constructively to that community, while still holding opposing opinions on an issue, so long as post actually address the issue being discussed rather than moving to childish name calling.

EDITED_BY: ElectricBlue (1264556554)


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Originally Posted By: ElectricBlueActually no, if people are adults about issues and don't resort to mudslinging and name calling, it is very possible to Satisfy 'Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?' and
'Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?' with out having the same opinion.

It is healthy for a community to debate hot issues and topics and does not mean you are not bettering friend ships. Think about your real life friends? Do you often debate topics that not every one agrees on? i know my friends do.

If every one just remembered that in these kind of debates it is not what you say it is the way you say it that really matters.

Actually there us a point of disagreement where people tend to not be close enough to be friends based on lack of common ground. I think you misread my point entirely. I'm trying to talk about how nothing offensive is said, there are two strong stances on a stalemate issue, and neither side is going to budge.

Was anybody necessarily offensive? No

Are people so different they may tend to not want a close relationship with the person they disagree with? No

Does it mean that they hate and despise each other? No

Should people be forced to be friends? No

Why? Because when it's fake it isn't friendship!

All I'm trying to say is that censorship can go to the point of creating fake identities, resentment, and also can reduce a difference of opinion into mudslinging. I think that's a pretty moderate, level headed assessment of a highly probable outcome.

Look at politics, cliques, and many other social constructs and tell me what is the lesser of the these two evil: Holding a gun to someone's head and telling them to play nice or doing the same thing and telling them to get lost? I think both are equally disgusting and vial.

I'm sure many wouldn't agree with me and some may make an unfavorable judgment about myself as an individual for that stance, but I think both ends of the spectrum are wrong and balance is the answer along with accepting that people who don't mesh well should be forced to be friends but perhaps it would develop better with some time and patience. These are things I feel quite strongly about and it's not very mature to tell people who they will associate with and how, that is being treated like a child and will breed discontent.


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:Originally Posted By: ElectricBlue
No i would probably do what i would do in real life, Ignore and continue the discussions with the people who were being intelligible and polite.

So you wouldn't take the time to throw some of your moral diatribes about in hopes to re-educate them?

Originally Posted By: ElectricBlueAlso if their 'talking smack' is actually just their opinion on a topic and they are presenting it with out being attacking or rude then who are any of us to tell them off? everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Talking smack is talking smack. Don't twist it's meaning to suit your purposes of laying conversational traps and if you want to play the equality route then everyone has just as much right to voice their opinion in a form of ad-hom to a post of a person they deem idiotic.

Originally Posted By: ElectricBlueExactly that is why people need to think harder about what they are writing before they post and if their post could be considered aggressive, rude or unfriendly

That's the thing about debating passionately. It will always be viewed hostile from the outside (and probably from the inside too) because you're attacking and trying to undermine a way of thinking by forcing an evolution in thought.

Originally Posted By: ElectricBlueAlso there are many ways to make the same point with or with out being unnecessarily rude or overly aggressive that is what i mean by 'it is not what you say but how you say it'.

This is true. For a friend you will hold your tongue for many a jibe or foolish foot in mouth comment. I can't say the same for someone I don't respect.

Originally Posted By: ElectricBlueThis is the point i was making in my post. That people in a community can encourage friendship and contribute constructively to that community, while still holding opposing opinions on an issue, so long as post actually address the issue being discussed rather than moving to childish name calling.

A community is group made of many parts. Alot of those parts won't fit together all the time but that doesn't mean they aren't a community. There is a thing called etiquette. It has held society together for generations. People seem to think it's ok to throw simple rules out of the window because they are on the net and expect no back lash. They are wrong.


"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

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EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Originally Posted By: ElectricBlue
Also there are many ways to make the same point with or with out being unnecessarily rude or overly aggressive that is what i mean by 'it is not what you say but how you say it'.

This is the point i was making in my post. That people in a community can encourage friendship and contribute constructively to that community, while still holding opposing opinions on an issue, so long as post actually address the issue being discussed rather than moving to childish name calling.

I'm sorry but I can't agree with you and human history backs me up on probability. How many people holding opposing views that affect their beliefs, religion, affiliations, or say challenges their upbringings successfully just say "Yeah sure, although I believe this with all my heart you think I'm wrong but I should pretend that we don't have fundamental differences and go grab some food and catch a movie!" That never happens anywhere, especially the internet!

That doesn't mean that you can't treat that person with dignity and respect, but telling someone to have no other behaviors than positive friendship building traits that are based on a lie you're forced to tell is simply immoral.

Please tell me if that makes sense, I'm not abandoning my morals and remaining silent on this issue because I feel that it is oppression no one should face (especially the internet) and displays cult like behavior.


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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ElectricBlue
ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Member Since: 11th Feb 2002
Total posts: 810
Posted:Quote:So you wouldn't take the time to throw some of your moral diatribes about in hopes to re-educate them?

Quite happy to Actually, because what i posted is my opinion and i am free to have and express it and i have done so with out being rude or aggressive.

There is nothing wrong with trying to show someone your point of view or try to so them you think they may be wrong but every one should be capable of doing so with out restoring to name calling and rudeness.

Regarding EpitomeOfNovice's point. It happens plenty i'm not saying every one needs to be best buddies but encouraging friendship and being best friends are two different things.

This forum is actually a really good example of exactly this happening. There have been plenty of heated discussions on controversial issues over the years for example read the thread about gun laws. But those people mostly post with out being aggressive and rude and on the flip side those same people will be chatting away in the poi or staff forums even though they have opposing positions on a fairly heated topic.

Just because some people in history have been unable to do these things does not mean we can not strive to have a happy diverse community with out compromising our morals. It is achievable because if it were not i'm sure the world we live in would be a hell of a lot worse than it is now.






I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Perhaps I'm having a slight language barrier because a person is lucky if they can count their friends on one hand...

Do you mean friends or acquaintances? There is a big difference to me in terminology...


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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ElectricBlue
ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Member Since: 11th Feb 2002
Total posts: 810
Posted:What i am say is encouraging friendship or creating an environment where friendship can happen is not the same as saying everyone must be friends.

I suppose every one does have a different view of the term friend but to me a friend is somebody that i know socially and enjoy spending time with whether it be somebody who is my closest friend or somebody who i may only see to every know and then. So that might make things clearer regarding my point of view.



EDITED_BY: ElectricBlue (1264560851)


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:


Originally Posted By: ElectricBlue
No i would probably do what i would do in real life, Ignore and continue the discussions with the people who were being intelligible and polite.

And, by arguing against people arguing, are you not throwing your own opinion in on the matter too? I suppose you would like us all to be exactly like you and communicate exactly like you.

I suppose that makes as much sense as someone clicking the notify button on an argument that they were not a part of. Everyone has the right to express their opinion only in the ways that I percieve to be correct.

I agree with you in most part, that there is no need to resort to being overtly rude, but as this topic is about the haiti topic, I dont recall actual name calling being thrown about in the deleted thread, unless there is something that I too missed.

There certainly was heated discussion, but are we promoting the attitude that you are not allowed to stick to your convictions for the sake of someones hurt feelings if they disagree with you? If your a person that is that easily hurt then how do you go in the real world?

which leads me to my next point. If we allow ourselves to pander to people that post uninformed or plainly wrong things on the internet, by making that ability enforced and sacrosanct then are we not promoting negative behaivour in RL? We are setting a poor example of how communication works in RL if all passionate debates and expressions of opinion are censored.

There is a line as to what should be posted, but that is no excuse for deleting or notifying posts that edge that line, only the ones that cross it.


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:Originally Posted By: ElectricBlueQuote:So you wouldn't take the time to throw some of your moral diatribes about in hopes to re-educate them?

Quite happy to Actually, because what i posted is my opinion and i am free to have and express it and i have done so with out being rude or aggressive.

There is nothing wrong with trying to show someone your point of view or try to so them you think they may be wrong but every one should be capable of doing so with out restoring to name calling and rudeness.

That was my point :rollseyes: since we have now determined the limit of your intellect I'm now going to degrade this conversation.

You my dear are a self-righteous pompous knob sack. Where do you get off using yourself as a reference to a good standard of behaviour? Do me a favour and never quote, reply nor even look at my posts. One day someone is going to come along and drop kick you off your pedestal. I hope you post here about it.

EDITED_BY: This Jaded Flesh (1264561161)
EDIT_REASON: thought of a better word.


"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

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EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Originally Posted By: ElectricBlue
Just because some people in history have been unable to do these things does not mean we can not strive to have a happy diverse community with out compromising our morals. It is achievable because if it were not i'm sure the world we live in would be a hell of a lot worse than it is now.


It was "a hell of a lot worse" go back a hundred years, if you really want to be mortified go back 2000 years or 3000 years. I admire your optimism and that is a wonderful trait to have, but what your speaking of is very utopian and the pressure to force that is all I'm speaking out (slightly) against. I feel balance and allowing people and issues some time, mistakes, and a chance is much better than "preaching" (for lack of a better word) a message that can be misinterpreted easily.

I know for a fact that I have made many posts without any name calling or personal attacks where I have been pushed into dishing one out due to passive aggression and a mob mentality on here. This doesn't occur on other uncensored bulletin boards I'm on because that pressure isn't there and it tends to be much more peaceful due to people coming together with the ability to speak freely.

I have never been treated as badly on Ravelinks for having an opinion as I have on here by some people. I think the cliquish nature of this forum plus the language barrier becomes an issue. It's like get on board and be a poser and pretend to love everyone or quit and go home. It's intimidating and uncool, I blame it on censorship that includes social pressure.


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:And we have a mod that can see no other use for a mature forum other than sex and swearing... Such sadness.

"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

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EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:^^^
That is an immature assumption considering many issues for debate aren't even PG by nature like abortion, human rights, genocide, doctrine/religion... The list goes on and on... I don't think a sociology class or even what I read for literature in high school can be knocked down to PG by the MPAA standards atleast!LOLyesyes

EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1264561900)
EDIT_REASON: cause i thought of more


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:yeah, apparantly all adults ever do is sex and swear.

I think sometimes the whole issue of a PG forum is overemphasised, its not G. It is parental guidence recommended. I mean come on, how much sexual inuendos are in disney movies?


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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ElectricBlue
ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Member Since: 11th Feb 2002
Total posts: 810
Posted:I was not saying don't argue your own point of view.

I, just like you was voicing my opinion. Which was, That i belive that the hop forum guidelines that say

'Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?' and
'Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Can be adhered to with out compromising your own personal opinion or morals and that discussion can be beneficial to all concerned even if every one does not agree, It is healthy to argue but there is a difference between a healthy argument and name calling and rudeness just because somebody has an apposing opinion.

This thread is mostly a good example of my opinion. We all seem to have different opinions on the topic of thread deletion and the forum guidelines and we are debating mostly with out personal attacks and rudeness.

I do agree that it is not ok to have to hold in your opinion because someone maybe offended. I also feel that it would not be ok to delete a post just because somebody was offended by somebody else having an opposing view. But i also feel there is a difference between posting an opposing view in a discussion and aggressive attacking another person just for posting their opinion.

Also i just wanted to say that my opinion, that i have just stated was in general and in reply to the post first discussing the forum guidelines and their merits, not in direct relation to posts on the Haiti thread directly or the problem with the missing post.


Blue

EDITED_BY: ElectricBlue (1264562716)


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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WoodlandApple
WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia
Member Since: 1st Dec 2009
Total posts: 474
Posted:if I think that someone is acting like an idiot, Im going to tell them. I am not calling them an idiot, just what they posted.

'Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?'
'Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

none of these will be served by being dishonest, worse it will mean that the friendships I am forming on this site will be built on a foundation of lies. There seems to be a lot of people on this site that is unable to deal with conflict.


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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EpitomeOfNovice
EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Member Since: 15th Sep 2009
Total posts: 787
Posted:Originally Posted By: WoodlandApple
none of these will be served by being dishonest, worse it will mean that the friendships I am forming on this site will be built on a foundation of lies. There seems to be a lot of people on this site that is unable to deal with conflict.

I too find this most alarming and think it's very counterproductive and shouldn't be enabled nor encouraged.


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:This thread is full of awesome constructive discussion and ideas - thanks people!

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Without having thoroughly read each and every of the last posts:

Whilst we should try to adhere to HoP posting guidelines, it is simply impossible to fulfill all requirements at the same time. IF a post is the truth (or at least what I genuinely believes the truth to be) - it automatically is fair and beneficial to all concerned. IF a post is erroneous, someone else is to counter it (and should present evidence and ideally links to this evidence).

But even if all these guidelines are being fulfilled, it might not help building goodwill and better friendships... some people can't face the truth, have poor arguments and simply resent to reason.

This is not depending on the individual but quite often on the topic. I can be arguing very reasonable when it comes to HIV (prevention) but might have a problem keeping the cool when it comes to the right of bearing arms... Then again it depends on whether or not my cat is alive or has just gotten shot by the apprentice sniper next door.

IMO the Haiti thread should not have been deleted entirely but (if necessary) individual (offensive) posts should have been removed.

WA: it might not necessarily be that some people are incapable of conflict management - maybe they are not willing to because this is the internet and they don't have to. OR maybe they try and just don't get heard or their attempts noticed.

On my part I noted that (in my opinion) one member seems to harbor serious grudges against another one and I addressed the same. I felt that it has not necessarily been the content but the way in which it got put. I.e. it might be true that a particular argument/statement has been based on emotions alone and would not stand validation based on facts.

Now I could say

a) "Sorry dear, but you know that this statement is simply not true (based on this and that fact to which I link right here)"

or I can say

b) "You're such an immature bitch - get out of the gene-pool .... yaddayaddda"

I myself am guilty as charged and often slap my truth into other peoples faces like a wet towel rather than holding it like a warm coat in a cold winters night to slip into.

grouphug

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1264590953)
EDIT_REASON: point being made more easy


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Felex
Felex

Destroyer of worlds and ooo shiny.
Location: In my own head
Member Since: 1st Jun 2009
Total posts: 268
Posted:I go to sleep and look what happens. eek I cant be bothered to read them all right now, just to say
A friend is someone who knows everything about you and still likes you.


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This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:See tom b) would have been so sexy. double so if you had combined the two and posted the link. I'm getting wet just thinking about it.

"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

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This Jaded Flesh
This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham
Member Since: 30th Oct 2009
Total posts: 323
Posted:Originally Posted By: PyrolificThis thread is full of awesome constructive discussion and ideas - thanks people!



So are you considering giving us a mature forum? or are you just making sure we know you're watching and ready to throw your weight about? rolleyes


"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

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Stout
Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada
Member Since: 12th May 2004
Total posts: 1872
Posted:Originally Posted By: WoodlandApplenone of these will be served by being dishonest, worse it will mean that the friendships I am forming on this site will be built on a foundation of lies. There seems to be a lot of people on this site that is unable to deal with conflict.

Now that's cutting to the chase. smile


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